Racing Sim Thread, Part II

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:58 pm

That's a pity, Grant, because I think it's worth a try and it's done nothing at all to the rest of my rFactor install (I checked. Extensively, just in case), but I can't say I blame anyone for not wanting to touch it with a bargepole. The real shame of it is that it's largely the attitude of the mod makers themselves that's causing quite a lot of the early trouble. The PlrUtil.exe issue is the biggest joke of all - going from 'YOU MUST USE THIS!' (which, in fact, isn't true, because I and countless others haven't touched it) to 'OH GOD, NO, DON'T USE THIS!' without ever bothering to fully explain either stance is either dumb or arrogant, and there are enough comments on rFactor Central to suggest that it's largely the latter.

Having said that, there seems to be exactly the same arrogance among many of the folk using it - "I've waited months for this mod to come out and now it's finished I don't like how it feels, you suck because I wanted you to do this, that, the other and you didn't..." and all that, along with some rank silliness from folk who haven't quite cottoned on that to see the mirrors in cockpit view some use of Look Left and Look Right is required.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:39 pm

Adam:

You're exactly right.

The arrogance of MMG appears to be deep-rooted. If you followed the production of this mod, you'll know that MMG leader Yanden filled his blog with breathless promises about the greatest graphics and physics ever in an F1 game, also sending these proclamations to gaming blogs and forums.

And the F1 sim community faithful lapped it up, all but performing fellatio on this group before the mod was released. I was pretty jacked for this mod, too.

The shoddy release of this mod over the weekend, from the alpha-quality sounds to the incredulous insistence that .PLR files be changed for the AI to work, proves that all of the advance praise from the sim community flowed right into MMG's heads. It sure looks like they thought they were bulletproof, could walk on water, could shovel out anything on release day and the lemmings would love it.

And when all of the lemmings didn't love it, MMG acted like a wounded animal, lashing out. It got so bad last night that F1Racer, part of MMG, actually made a comments post at rFactor Central saying, and I paraphrase, "The community wanted this mod by a certain date, and if we didn't release by a certain date, they would have screamed. So this is what you get."

In-f*cking-credible. Yep, it was OUR fault that MMG released a 1.0 product that was worse than its earlier beta release. What a joke.

These guys actually think they are Papyrus or ISI, a development group with commercial and retail pressures. It's a FREE mod distributed online, fellas -- you can take all the damn time you need.

I'm so soured by MMG's attitude that I'm not sure if I'll try this mod -- or any future MMG mod, for that matter -- once the promised fixes are made. I hope MMG learns from this experience, but I doubt it has the requisite humility. PhilSousa is the only one of the group posting publicly in forums who seems to have skin thicker than tissue paper.

Take care,
PK

johnvon314 · Post by **johnvon314** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:35 am

My rFactor HOF:

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/rfactor_m ... johnvon314

Also "fixed" the force feedback in my Logitech MOMO as I found the correct power supply stored in a moving box from a couple years back. I had been using the wrong PS the whole time. Now that thing really rocks... literally! Got to learn how to race again.

John

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:25 am

The saga regarding F1 2007 by MMG just gets more stupid:

http://makmodgroup.blogspot.com/

The group's head, Yanden, admits that MMG screwed up by mixing in old files with the 1.0 release of the mod and that the group is working on a fix. That's cool.

Now for the ridiculous. Yanden announces with venom that he is going underground and won't post in forums or take press inquiries due to the criticism he is receiving over the botched release of this mod.

What balls. What a f*cking hypocrite. This guy is the most shameless self-promoter in the rFactor mod community, and now that he and his group screw up big time, he's crawling into the cave because he can't take the heat?

As usual, this clown thinks it's all about him. People aren't pissed at him -- they're mad at the beta quality of the mod release.

What a joke. OK, I've wasted more than enough time reading about this soap opera. On to other rFactor things!

P.S.: An astute researcher at RSC has found some significant flaws in the physics and power curves of the MMG F1 2007 mod:

http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=312008

Adam, do the cars feel the same to you, in terms of power and handling?

Take care,
PK

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:09 pm

You could say that about any mod for rfactor other than the Isi ones, thats the trouble with rfactor any Tom Dick and Harry can make a mod for it people think if its easy to drive its not right , im done dicking around with it all especially as a single player game , ill just take what the makers are giving me and have to trust them.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:43 pm

Jimmydeicide wrote:You could say that about any mod for rfactor other than the Isi ones, thats the trouble with rfactor any Tom Dick and Harry can make a mod for it people think if its easy to drive its not right , im done dicking around with it all especially as a single player game , ill just take what the makers are giving me and have to trust them.

Jimmy:

The difference is the other mod makers keep their mouths shut during development and don't promise that their mod can walk on water, teach Michael Schumacher to be a better driver and give you a reacharound at the same time.

MMG created unbelievably high expectations with its endless self-promotion, such as Yanden's blog, a f*cking demo of a mod and promotional material sent to sim sites and forums. And it's obvious that the first release didn't match the hype, and some members of the community are expressing their disappointment.

And MMG is trotting out every excuse in the book, such as pressure from the community, "this is a free mod, so stop b*tching," "we put in countless hours on this," etc.

I don't buy any of that sh*t. EVERY f*cking rFactor mod is free. Every rFactor modder works his nuts off for no pay. There's nothing special about that.

Anyways, when are we racing again?

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:04 pm

pk500 wrote:P.S.: An astute researcher at RSC has found some significant flaws in the physics and power curves of the MMG F1 2007 mod:

http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=312008

Adam, do the cars feel the same to you, in terms of power and handling?

Take care,
PK

I'd been reading about the cars having the same engine files and whatnot yesterday, and upon popping on here I carried out a little test.

Rather than just say the cars felt the same, I thought I'd try and put together a demonstration. One flyer of Interlagos (current layout, not GP '79) in a Spyker, then one flyer in a Ferrari to give a straight comparison with the same tyre temps and fuel loads. They're not the ultimate lap time, because the cars aren't in ultimate trim, but it's a sound basis for comparison. I even made the same 'deliberate' mistake at the last corner of my out lap...

In the Spyker I ran a 1:15.897. In the Ferrari, 1:15.958. The cars felt the same, hit the same top speeds, had the same shift points, got nervous in the same places...the whole lot. I preferred the Spyker, because it didn't have as many graphics on the steering wheel to distract me...

Edited to quickly add that I've attempted to comment on Yanden's latest blog post, and though I've been critical in the politest possible terms, I'll be absolutely amazed if any of you ever get to see it.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:42 pm

I's too bad that the Ralph Hummerich/EMAC crew decided not to continue work on an rFactor F1 mod. They were by far the best F1 mod crew in the business in terms of physics, graphics, quality, frame rate, attetion to detail, etc. Plus, they rarely let on the status of anything until it was actually released in full form. In the F1 1999-2002 world, there was none better. Even CTDP paled in comparison. Don't know what happened with that group, but it does not appear that there is anyone to pick up the torch outside of CTDP.

The main mod and track I am anticipating right now is PTC from Virtua_LM along with the Mid-Ohio track.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:37 pm

Interesting new mod for GTR 2, Palmer Jaguars. They're a lot like Radical lightweight sports cars:

http://www.nogripracing.com/details.php?filenr=8858&

The Spec Racer Ford's are out at rFactor Central. I can't wait to try this mod tonight, as the thought of running Spec Racers, SCCA style, is very cool:

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... cer%20Ford

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:05 am

I tried the Spec Racers tonight, and my reaction can be summarized in one word: Meh.

This is very much a homebrew mod, as the cars and cockpits lack detail and polish. No shadows under the cars, either, although the modder promises a fix.

I know Spec Racers are entry-level cars, but these things just feel plain slow, sluggish and lazy. I could see where they would breed good racing only because they're not the quickest cars in the world.

The cars also have some odd handling characteristics, including understeer under braking and some pretty serious throttle trail oversteer if you lift when the car is turning in at high speed. Maybe that's realistic for this car, but you better have your braking done before corner entry, for the most part.

Not sure if this mod is a keeper in its current form. I tried running Radical sports cars -- an illegal conversion mod for rFactor -- right after the Spec Racers, and they were a hell of a lot more fun. The next level above these cars.

Anyone else try these?

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:42 pm

Grand Prix Legends fans: A modder clearly has done way too many drugs, as he is attempting to build the Targa Florio track for GPL.

Targa Florio is a 44-mile track that basically is a tour of Sicily. A world championship sports car event took place on the track for many years, until the mid-70s.

This looks simply nuts:

http://www.virtualr.net/grand-prix-lege ... ga-florio/

Don't soil yourself, Piggy!

Take care,
PK

johnvon314 · Post by **johnvon314** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:31 pm

pk500 wrote:Grand Prix Legends fans: A modder clearly has done way too many drugs, as he is attempting to build the Targa Florio track for GPL.

Targa Florio is a 44-mile track that basically is a tour of Sicily. A world championship sports car event took place on the track for many years, until the mid-70s.

Doesn't GPL have a 15 mile maximum on track length? That's supposedly why they couldn't do the Isle of Man fully.

John

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:44 pm

johnvon314 wrote:
pk500 wrote:Grand Prix Legends fans: A modder clearly has done way too many drugs, as he is attempting to build the Targa Florio track for GPL.

Targa Florio is a 44-mile track that basically is a tour of Sicily. A world championship sports car event took place on the track for many years, until the mid-70s.

Doesn't GPL have a 15 mile maximum on track length? That's supposedly why they couldn't do the Isle of Man fully.

John

I believe so. But the blog entry linked above indicated that a new GPL.exe file is needed to run this track since it's so long. It must overwrite the maximum track length code.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:11 pm

Oh, boy, looks like I need to try this new rFactor mod tonight -- Ferrari 288 GTO with three types of physics -- classic, race and drift. Early reviews are glowing:

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... allenge%20

YouTube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13wqELnOuVE

Take care,
PK

wpw721 · Post by **wpw721** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:57 pm

http://www.race2play.com/homepage/show_chapter/377
I just joined this independent chapter at Race2Play. Finally somebody put a less hardcore group together.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:48 am

Finally got around to trying the Ferrari 288 GTO mod last night, and I guess I'm one of seven rFactor players on Planet Earth who isn't that impressed.

The street car version is a waste of time, as the brakes are HORRIBLE. I can't imagine a car rolling off the line at Maranello with brakes worse than a Kia Sedona mini-van.

The race car version fishtails like a bastard, but it's also very unpredictable. I have no problem with predictable, manageable slides, but this car's handling is all over the board. I would expect better-tuned stock handling from a proper race car. Plus the acceleration was less than what I expected for such a supercar.

I was so disappointed with the first two modes of this mod that I didn't bother with the drift mode.

As a final note, the default view in the cockpit cam sucks like a Hoover in this mod. You're way too far back, as it feels like the steering wheel is 100 yards away.

A very disappointing mod for me. Your mileage may vary.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:03 am

Don't count on an F1 game from EA Sports any time soon:

http://www.virtualr.net/ea-rules-out-fo ... ar-future/

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:09 am

Yeah I read that a few days ago PK. It sounds like Sony still has the license. Thanks for posting it. Now all we need is for Sony to give out some news on another F1 game.

Every F1 game EA made with exception of F1 Challenge '99-'02 was either a disappointment or a disaster.

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:00 pm

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=51

Heres the future of racing games on consoles pretty much, not looking so good.

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:16 pm

IGN has a quick preview of NASCAR 09.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/859/859035p1.html

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:21 pm

I'm going to wait and see after the turd called Nascar 08.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:33 pm

macsomjrr wrote:IGN has a quick preview of NASCAR 09.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/859/859035p1.html

Maybe EA will add a rocket pack mode this year -- my heart leaps in anticipation.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:22 pm

As one who thought (thinks - I still have it) that NASCAR 08's physics and handling models were pretty solid but wanted the AI aggression and spins from minimal contact toned down, I'm actually quite looking forward to that. Hopefully EA get their PAL ducks in a row for 360 owners this year - 08 was released here 5 months after the NTSC launch and 2 months after the PS3 PAL version.

The one thing that jumped out at me from Jimmy's link was the boredom one of the IndyCar Series coders felt while working on the game. The ICS games turned out fine (offline, at least) but it's got me wondering how many of the elementary errors, misses and problems we pick up on in racing games are caused by programmers just not giving a toss about the subject matter.

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:18 pm

GB_Simo wrote:As one who thought (thinks - I still have it) that NASCAR 08's physics and handling models were pretty solid but wanted the AI aggression and spins from minimal contact toned down, I'm actually quite looking forward to that. Hopefully EA get their PAL ducks in a row for 360 owners this year - 08 was released here 5 months after the NTSC launch and 2 months after the PS3 PAL version.

Besides the crazy AI you're right it was a decent next-gen NASCAR racing game so just like you I'm looking forward to it this year. They need to add more players to the XBL racing though ('08 the max was 8 racers). I can remember when I was a kid living in the UK and I used to be so jealous that games here in the US would come out months before we'd see them there. Luckily my parents bought my lil' bro and I a US SNES while on vacation in Florida so we could play imports. Good times.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:30 pm

F1 2007 MMG 1.00 has been released.

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... 2007%20MMG

Here are the release notes:

Before Installing please remove old version of MMG. (or just remove mmg folder in vehicles)

What's new from previous version?

- New Cockpit Mirrors upgrades for all teams
- Fixed Button Helmet Texture
- Fixed Cockpits for teams
- Fixed Renault Steering Wheel Issues
- Fixed Toyota Trulli Wheel Texture
- Fixed Ferrari Car Model, Suspensions & Textures
- Removed Wing upgrades
- Improved Near Perfected simulation physics / Lap Times.
- New Tires, Fixed Understeer/Oversteer, Fixed grip levels, Fixed Wear Levels. Better Realistic handling.
- Added Wet tires and adjusted Hard tires.
- Fuel Tanks now 150L
- New Braking System. Watch your brake temperature. Cold Temps less than 200 degrees. Best Brakes at 600-950 degrees, overheating brakes 1200+.
- Fine Tuned Gear Ratios
- Fixed Safety Car Physics and Fixed Safety car Speed. Based off real Safety car specs. Now isn't so slow as before.
- Fixed Damage Pit stop Time. Max 100 seconds pit stop for broken suspensions.
- New Damage Physics. Tires do come off after a hard crash
- Reinserted ISI BMW sounds
- Removed BOOST. Now car is set to 19000 RPM at all times. Boost is used for fuel mixutre and minor torque incensement.
- New Good Default Setup
- Reduced Draft Effect
- Reduced Downforce Lost while in drafting effect
- Fixed Fuel Usage

& lots more. (cannot really remember everything at this point). These are only very breif points.

Notes & Unsupported features

- AI has not been looked at for server edition. It is still left in there but it is not optimised. It may be ok.
- Sounds are set back to BMW ISI. We have new sounds coming soon, as it will be an add-on when it is ready
- we have added wet tires. There will be wet tracks coming soon on f1mods.com, and wet tire treads.
- MMG Tracks will be released on a regularly bases. Check our downloads section on http://www.f1mods.com

Example Times: Joni Varis sets fastest I have seen in rFactor for Australian in MMG. Qualy time for Server Edition 1.23.