Racing Sim Thread, Part II

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:23 pm

I will give NSS another shot and just try for 10 car fields or less. If nothing else, it would be a fun diversion for our rFactor poker nights.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:12 pm

If any of you still has F1 Challenge '99-'02 there's a new mod released for it. A 1971 F1 mod.

Looks good too.

http://www.racesimulations.com/F1C/1971 ... /1771.html

Team CREW

Proudly Presents

F1 SEVEN 1971 CARSET

featuring:

* 1971 FULL Carset (24 new models featuring 6 engine manufacturers and many many bodyshape variants)
* New 1975 Brabham and McLaren cars entirely redone
* New physics for season 1975
* Three new Bonus cars for F1 Legend mode
* New graphic interface including edited icons and Menu background for all 74/75 teams
* New .rcd drivers files edited for 1971, 1974 and 1975 seasons in individual subfolders
* 71 & 75 seasons preset player profiles now included

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:45 am

Logitech has released the successor to the fantastic Driving Force Pro wheel, the Driving Force GT:

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gamin ... strf=Email

I'm assuming this is a USB wheel compatible with a PC and the Logitech Wingman software, like the DFP?

It looks like a nice wheel. But I think the next step for me is the awesome G25. Still, that's a ways off, as my DFP is working just fine.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:27 pm

I spent nearly four hours last night -- yeah, I'm a loser, I know -- tinkering with the setup of my Logitech Driving Force Pro wheel and rFactor, trying to find a sweet spot with the setup. Here are the issues I wanted to fix, issues that I believe are apparent with rFactor regardless of the wheel:

1. More precise force feedback.

2. The apparent dead zone in force feedback when the wheel is centered. The force feedback seems to disappear when the wheel is at center, suddenly emerging when the wheel moves about 10 degrees or so to either direction.

3. The early disappearance of force feedback during understeer situations. When the car starts to push in a turn, the force feedback seems to shut off very quickly, losing the important feel of the road when trying to correct and return to neutral balance.

4. Coming to grips with 360-degree rotation.

Well, damned if a bunch of research at PC sim racing forums and testing spanning four hours didn't help me find nirvana. My wheel feels damn near perfect to me, much better than before. The solutions to the problems listed above:

1. I downloaded and used Leo's FFB plugin from rFactor Central: http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... B%20plugin

This plugin works fantastic. Simply extract the two files into the Plugins folder in your rFactor folder and drive. I know many people gush about the RealFeel plugin for rFactor, but that always turned me off because you had to adjust so many values separately for every mod you own. Leo's plugin works with all mods with no adjustments since it's based on the overall rFactor grip model, not the individual suspension characteristics of each mod.

With Leo's plugin, force feedback is more progressive, you feel tire grip more precisely, you feel much more weight in the wheel when the car is stationary, and you feel many more of the bumps on the track. Try taking the BMW E321 historic touring cars around Oulton Park with Leo's plug-in -- what a bumpy, wild trip!

2. Eliminating the force-feedback deadzone is a matter of changing one entry in the INI file you use for your controller. It's that simple, because amazingly ISI programs this force-feedback deadzone into the damn game! The controller INI file can be found in rFactor/UserData/Controller directory. I recommend that you copy your default controller INI file and tuck it away somewhere in case you don't like these changes and want an easy swap back to your original settings.

Search for this line in your controller's INI file: FFB steer force neutral range= . Change the listed value after the equal sign to 0.00000 -- goodbye dead zone!

3. Keeping constant force feedback during understeer also can be achieved by a few tweaks in your controller INI file and changing your wheel properties in the XP game controllers menu.

First, make these changes to your controller's INI file:

FFB steer force grip function="0.30000"
FFB steer force grip weight="0.00000"
FFB steer force grip factor="0.00000"
FFB steer friction coefficient="0.00000"
FFB steer friction saturation="0.00000"
FFB steer damper coefficient="0.00000"
FFB steer damper saturation="0.00000"

Now make these changes either in the Windows XP Game Controllers menu or the Logitech Profiler, if you use it:

Overall Effects Strength: 107%
Spring Effect Strength: 0%
Damper Effect Strength: 0%
Centering Spring Strength: 0%
Uncheck centering spring box

The overall effects strength percentage is based on my 360-degree rotation preference. If you use more rotation, increase the effects strength so you have good feedback throughout the entire rotation range. If you only use the stock 200 degrees, you'll probably only want to use 100 percent effects strength. Taylor it to your tastes.

4. Practice. It just took time to realize that I need to turn in a bit earlier with the wheel set at 360 degrees instead of the 270-degree rotation I was using. But the trade-off is much more progressive control and more ease at catching slides.

One of my big quibbles about using different rotation degrees than 270 was that the rotation of my virtual on-screen wheel didn't coincide with the rotation of my DFP. That always played with my head. Silly, I know, but it's a fact for me.

But I learned last night that you can set the on-screen rotation to any number of degrees in your controller INI file. rFactor has a default value of 270 degrees. Just go into the INI file that you use for your controller and find SteeringWheelRange and change the value to match the degrees of rotation to what you're using with your wheel, 360 in my case.

Anyways, these changes have transformed my wheel. My lap times already are coming down, and my consistency has improved. That doesn't mean I'm going to challenge Adam or Smurf any time soon, but it has made a great game even more fun for me!

Let me know how these changes work for you if you try them. It made a huge difference for me.

P.S.: I suggest that you take the 2007 Sauber BMW F1 car out at Istanbul Park while testing these settings. It's f*cking incredible. Seriously one of the greatest sim driving experiences I've ever had. I probably turned 40 or 50 laps there last night while tinkering with these settings and only stopped because my eyelids were dropping like curtains at 2 a.m. Tilke gets deservedly ripped for the fiddly nature of some of his track designs, but the racing gods clearly inspired him during the design of Istanbul.
2007 Sauber BMW F1: http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... 20BMW%20F1
Istanbul Park: http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... bul%20Park

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:10 pm

Istanbul Park has only two corners that I like to drive around, but the rFactor version is certainly well done. Bahrain's a Tilkedrome too, isn't it? I do like that one, and the rFactor version is excellent.

I've spent some time this evening trying out PK's suggested force feedback tweaks with a G25, and for 20 minutes I was cursing my failure to back up my default controller.ini file (pro tip: don't forget to do that). I'd managed to somehow get it into my head that the game was catching slides for me in the way that ToCA Race Driver used to do, and that while I could feel the road far better, I couldn't feel the car anymore.

5 minutes later I came to realise that my original thoughts were a load of old bollocks. Running the BMW 320 at Rouen as we did for our most recent endurance race, I noticed that I was a little faster through the quick sweeps because I was able to be more precise with my steering inputs, and didn't spin the car while braking through the left hander before the tight hairpin because I was able to feel the back breaking away and correct accordingly. When I got to the hairpin, the steering at low speeds had a more convincing weight to it than before.

Every time things got a bit squirrelly in the BMW (and in the DBR9 I tested) I felt I stood a better chance of catching it because I could feel it happen and know straight away how much corrective action was needed, and the more that happened the more I realised the wheel wasn't saving the slides for me, but it was telling me exactly what I had to do through the FFB. The '07 BMW F1 car is more predictable with these settings too - I was much less crashy than normal. As far as lap times go, my experience tallies with PK's; the limit as conveyed by the standard force feedback settings is a bit short of the actual limit, so where I was running 2:03 at Rouen and convinced I had nothing more left, I know now that the BMW 320 has another couple of seconds left in it there.

Your mileage will vary, because feel is a subjective thing, but I'm happy to recommend that you follow the steps in PK's post and give them a shot, and I'm sure at least a couple of you will find a marked improvement.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:07 pm

Oh, great: There goes my secret edge to get to within two seconds per lap of Adam. Wonderful.

Seriously, I'm glad you like the tweaks. Your description of the improvement was vivid, detailed and exactly what I'm feeling through my hands. Everything is so much smoother, so much progressive, yet I'm getting more road feel than ever.

My experience with the 2007 Sauber BMW F1 car was very similar to yours, too. With the default wheel settings, I could barely finish a lap in that unleashed thoroughbred without an agricultural adventure. With these settings, I was turning four or five consecutive laps within a half-second of each other. You can actually use your hands to catch the car with a pretty precise degree of predictability, as Adam said.

Fixing the wheel seriously reduces one variable of concern while driving for me. More than ever, I can focus on proper lines, braking points and acceleration points instead fretting about a complete loss of control. It's a wonderful feeling.

Let's race again soon!

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:48 am

MMG's F1 2007 mod for rFactor due for release Friday:

http://www.virtualr.net/mmg-f1-2007-release-on-friday/

A demo already has been released for this mod. I haven't played it. Has anyone here? The screens sure look nice.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:06 am

Even though SCCA Spec Racers are underpowered cars that are pretty easy to drive, I'm really looking forward to this mod:

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... cer%20Ford

It's always good to have another grassroots car that breeds excellent racing for rFactor. Plus we can do our own SCCA Nationals Poker Night!

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:31 pm

Skoda Octavia Cup 06/07 has been released.

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... avia%20Cup

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:19 pm

pk500 wrote:MMG's F1 2007 mod for rFactor due for release Friday:

http://www.virtualr.net/mmg-f1-2007-release-on-friday/

A demo already has been released for this mod. I haven't played it. Has anyone here? The screens sure look nice.

We mentioned the demo somewhere around here - might even have been this thread, but it's late and I'm far too bone idle to go and look. It had the beginnings of a decent mod to it but there was still a bit to do, in my view. The demo cars understeered massively, the damage model was far too severe and the graphics weren't finished on any of the released cars (the last two problems were acknowledged, though my first gripe is a personal thing rather than a gamebreaker) so it was difficult to build up too accurate a picture. Then they patched the demo to 1.1 and it gave me a CTD every time I tried to run it, making it difficult to build any kind of picture at all from there.

I'll be downloading it, but I'm not too sure what to expect.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:36 pm

I've still yet to drive a better modern F1 mod than the 2007 Sauber BMW F1 car. It is sublime, and the ratings at rFactor Central show I'm not alone in that assessment:

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... 20BMW%20F1

Sometimes I think Hall of Fame inductions are earned too cheaply at rFactor Central, but this mod is more than worthy.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:21 am

Rodster wrote:Skoda Octavia Cup 06/07 has been released.

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... avia%20Cup

Thanks for the link.

I had a really hard time deciding last year whether to keep this mod or the ETCC 2003 mod, but it's an easy decision now: The new version of the Skoda mod has been dumbed down. I downloaded and tested it tonight, and the cars are just too damn easy to drive and lack the inherent understeer of front-wheel-drive touring cars.

The offline AI is way too slow, too. A shame, as the car models are really nice.

Has anyone else tried this new version? I politely offered my opinion at rFactor Central, and the mod creator jumped my sh*t, saying that FWD touring cars don't understeer. He even inferred that they drive like a kart because of their racing slicks and racing suspension.

I almost laughed out loud. Comparing a RWD kart with 2 inches of ground clearance to a heavy, FWD touring car? Touring cars have inherent understeer because most of their weight is over the front wheels, which also are the drive wheels.

But I think it's pretty telling that there are many comments at this mod's rFactor Central page that say this is the best-handling rFactor mod ever. In my mind, that's sim racer code for "I can kick ass in this mod because it's so damn easy to drive!"

I'll give this mod another go, just to be sure, but I'll probably stick with ETCC 2003 for my rFactor touring car fix.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:19 am

rFactor has a cool new feature where you can create a personal Hall of Fame of your five favorite mods, five favorite tracks and five favorite add-ons. Here's mine:

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/rfactor_h ... user=pk500

Build one of these, and share yours. I'm curious!

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:29 pm

Alright:

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/rfactor_h ... callhimsim

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:42 am

MMG F1 2007 1.0 - Released

http://www.virtualr.net/

http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cf ... 2007%20MMG

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=311888

Proceed with caution and read through the threads as there seems to be a lot of problems reported.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:14 am

Thanks, Don. But after reading the readme and comments, I'm not touching that F1 2007 mod with a 100-foot pole. There is no way I'm installing a mod that requires an executable file that modifies my rFactor player file.

This is the only rFactor mod that ever has required such a .exe file, and it's simply unacceptable.

I'll stick with the outstanding Sauber BMW F1 2007 mod.

Thanks,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:16 am

I'm having a terrible time just downloading the sodding thing, so the demand for it must be off the scale, but what I've read so far (the sounds being off, the AI being off, the need to run a plr fix file before running the mod...) make the whole thing sound even more incomplete than MMG let on. They did say they'd be releasing packs later to 'complete' the mod, mind.

The feedback from those who have it is awfully mixed, but for every one who says it's like driving an arcade game, there's another who says it's the polar opposite so I've no idea what to make of that. Download seems to be underway now so I should hopefully have it running in the next few hours.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:31 pm

pk500 wrote:Thanks, Don. But after reading the readme and comments, I'm not touching that F1 2007 mod with a 100-foot pole. There is no way I'm installing a mod that requires an executable file that modifies my rFactor player file.

PK, I know you're in the rFactor Central comments thread so you've probably seen this already, but apparently the executable is designed to modify AI behaviour. I'm with you in totally failing to understand why this should be necessary when so many other mods haven't needed such a step, but since I've spent an awfully long time trying to download it and the mod will apparently run just fine without running the executable, I'm pressing on.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:02 pm

GB_Simo wrote:
pk500 wrote:Thanks, Don. But after reading the readme and comments, I'm not touching that F1 2007 mod with a 100-foot pole. There is no way I'm installing a mod that requires an executable file that modifies my rFactor player file.
PK, I know you're in the rFactor Central comments thread so you've probably seen this already, but apparently the executable is designed to modify AI behaviour. I'm with you in totally failing to understand why this should be necessary when so many other mods haven't needed such a step, but since I've spent an awfully long time trying to download it and the mod will apparently run just fine without running the executable, I'm pressing on.

Not a chance for me, Adam. I simply refuse to run an executable that modifies my .PLR file, on principle. It's lazy, lazy, lazy programming, as no other rFactor mod requires it.

MMG is an arrogant lot, as this programming decision verifies, at least to me. It's almost like MMG is saying, "Hey, this is the great F1 2007, so you'll understand why we are f*cking up your .PLR file." The pre-release information sent to various PC sim racing sites depicted this mod as the Second Coming. And the early feedback indicates this isn't the case. No mirrors in the cockpit view for some cars, for example. WTF?

I worked too hard researching force feedback and other .PLR tweaks for my rFactor, putting at least five hours into it. I have written down those settings, and yes, I have backed up my .PLR file. But I refuse to let a modding group trample through the code of my rFactor game just for the "privilege" of running its almighty mod, especially when it apparently isn't all that and a bag of chips.

Good luck with the install.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:35 pm

I'm presently in the middle of trying to establish why the Super Aguri breaks my game whenever I load it on the spinner - some missing textures that I'm trying to get a fix for. Whenever I click Super Aguri I'm told of these missing textures, and then every other car becomes afflicted with the same issue though they worked fine previously. Haven't tried a race so I don't know how it affects things on the track, but in the menu the cars are invisible. It strikes me that if you're going to give your mod such a build-up - and I do agree with your take on the whole thing - you might want to ship it in an order which, if not wholly complete, works like it's bloody well meant to.

I too won't run the executable for the .plr file. Your force feedback tweaks are too good and my time too valuable to me for me to risk having them trashed, and if that means I'm not getting the AI as MMG intended that's their problem to fix, not mine.

Edit: This, fresh from the rFactorCentral comments:

'http://philsousa.proboards88.com/index. ... 1204397684

That PLR Utility thing doesn't look like its working right.

We will release Server edition tonight and some fixes. I will be writing an AI guide and letting u guys know the small list of commands that is required to change in PLR.'

They crack me up, these guys.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:45 pm

GB_Simo wrote:Edit: This, fresh from the rFactorCentral comments:

'http://philsousa.proboards88.com/index. ... 1204397684

That PLR Utility thing doesn't look like its working right.

We will release Server edition tonight and some fixes. I will be writing an AI guide and letting u guys know the small list of commands that is required to change in PLR.'

They crack me up, these guys.

Exactly, Adam. These MMG assholes are so arrogant that they think we should alter the AI for all of our rFactor mods just so we can have the proper AI for their almighty F1 2007? F*ck me.

I'm going to pose that question, in a kinder way, at rFactor Central. If the answer is the affirmative, then I'm going to let them have it.

Sorry about your troubles on the install.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:28 pm

Adam:

Just received a response at rFactor Central from one of the F1 2007 mod creators about my question, and yes, your .PLR file is changed for ALL rFactor mods if you use the PLR executable with F1 2007.

That's beyond ridiculous.

Oh, and check this comment from someone who used the PLR.exe file from the mod:

>>>What files other than the .plr is change by the plr utility???

Ever since I ran the plr utiliy non of my mods are working, made a backup of the plr before running it, but putting the old one back does nothing...so it ruined my entire rFactor installation. The game now freezes every time I press race in the monitoring menu.<<<

Lovely, eh? I would rather participate in Greco-Roman wrestling at a leper colony than try this mod.

Good luck with your install.

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:47 pm

Right, after some track testing, it seems the missing Super Aguri textures have no impact upon anything after the menu spinner. If you want to drive one of those cars, you'll have clear off all the error messages which might require a quick alt-tab - not gamebreaking, but bloody annoying. Pick another car after driving the Aguri and everything returns to normal. As for the mod itself...

The cockpits are well done. I've only tried three cars so far (Ferrari, McLaren and Aguri) and they all have working mirrors though as with the BMW 07 mod you have to turn your head to see them if they're mounted out on the sidepods. Steering wheels are team-specific and pretty accurate as far as I can see.

The AI seem alright without running the executable. I've only ran against it very briefly, but when I went to pass I was given just enough room to do so without being driven into. I have seen them have a little bump with each other coming out of the first corner at Silverstone, but nothing too alarming.

I feel like the response to steering input is a little more slow and deliberate than in the BMW 07 mod, but I can willingly believe that it's a decent approximation of a Formula One car - it feels somewhere in between the BMW mod and CTDP '05. The FF with PK's tweaks feels great, and once you've got the right wing settings on it's a very driveable mod. However...

Out of the box MMG have the cars set up with low wing settings. You can change wing packages through the car upgrades menu, and the medium ones work well at the majority of tracks, but if you start driving without first unlocking the wing packages, you'll find the car on low wing settings is about as willing to turn as an oil tanker. The damage is unforgiving (a light tap against the back of Sato and my front wing was off, which is exactly what you'd expect to happen in real life but perhaps not ideal for a game) and sometimes impacts with the barrier have the same ridiculously bouncy, flighty, why-am-I-upside-down results as were seen in the demo.

Ah, yes - the sounds are bloody awful. In fairness to them, the in-car sounds are pretty much dead on most of the time, but for some reason at full throttle you'll sometimes hear the revs drop off even though you're still accelerating. In external views, though, every car sounds like a V12 from the late 80s or early 90s. On top of that, when you're around other cars you can't hear your own engine over the top of theirs, which makes judging revs at the start a complete lottery. I've read MMG reps saying they only had 48 hours to put the sounds together and they'll fix them later or something, but they released a demo in November so that's got to be some kind of nonsense.

It's not bad, fellas, but it ain't no Holy Grail, that's for certain.

Edit: PK, your post overlapped with my typing. That really is ridiculous - I haven't touched my PLR file so I hope I'll be OK, but had I realised how much trouble this mod could cause before I downloaded it, I wouldn't have bothered either.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:08 pm

GB_Simo wrote:The AI seem alright without running the executable. I've only ran against it very briefly, but when I went to pass I was given just enough room to do so without being driven into. I have seen them have a little bump with each other coming out of the first corner at Silverstone, but nothing too alarming.

I've since watched a Toyota spend half a lap of Silverstone parked behind a Ferrari with a missing front wing, and so suggest you take the above paragraph as an early impression that may yet be wrong...

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:01 am

LOL, no way in hell this thing is touoching my PC. Too many other good mods out there.