OT: 2008 Elections

[greggsand]

But PK, given all the controversy over her husband is she running on his coattails or away from his coattails? Granted he's got a fairly large core level of support but I would have thought that the name Clinton has to be a huge handicap with the majority of American voters.

After the Bush-era, Clinton looks like George Washington. People long for those days... I think many people like the idea of Bill really calling the shots.

[Jackdog]

I'm curious as to why there is so much Hillary hate. What precisely has she done or not done to get everyone roasting her. Obviously the press despise her (and Bill and Gore), but from a policy standpoint or personality standpoint what is it that exorcises people so much?

Best wishes,

Doug

Crook (Whitewater. ect ect)
Unbelievable phoney(Too many examples to list)
Negative campaigning.
Tired of the Clinton bullshit.

[FatPitcher]

There's a certain breed of politician, present in both parties, that is in it for the power and the money and doesn't really give a damn about integrity or principle. They are linked to all sorts of shady fundraisers, deals, and quid pro quo, and no doubt there is plenty more of that stuff that they've managed to keep hidden. They do whatever is popular, whatever is necessary to win elections. They are condescending, unscrupulous, and often outright dishonest.

They are the kind of person you would absolutely loathe if they were your boss ("we're going to take more of your paycheck--it's for the common good!"), so why would you trust them to run the country?

Hillary Clinton is one of those politicians.

[Diablo25]

There's a certain breed of politician, present in both parties, that is in it for the power and the money and doesn't really give a damn about integrity or principle. They are linked to all sorts of shady fundraisers, deals, and quid pro quo, and no doubt there is plenty more of that stuff that they've managed to keep hidden. They do whatever is popular, whatever is necessary to win elections. They are condescending, unscrupulous, and often outright dishonest.

They are the kind of person you would absolutely loathe if they were your boss ("we're going to take more of your paycheck--it's for the common good!"), so why would you trust them to run the country?

Hillary Clinton is one of those politicians.

100% agree FP. I do "loathe" Hillary Clinton. I'm sure she will be "charming" in tonight's debates.

[Diablo25]

I'm curious as to why there is so much Hillary hate. What precisely has she done or not done to get everyone roasting her. Obviously the press despise her (and Bill and Gore), but from a policy standpoint or personality standpoint what is it that exorcises people so much?

Best wishes,

Doug

Crook (Whitewater. ect ect)
Unbelieably phoney(Too many examples to list)
Negative campaigning.
Tired of the Clinton bullshit.

Funny...and true!

[pk500]

There's a certain breed of politician, present in both parties, that is in it for the power and the money and doesn't really give a damn about integrity or principle. They are linked to all sorts of shady fundraisers, deals, and quid pro quo, and no doubt there is plenty more of that stuff that they've managed to keep hidden. They do whatever is popular, whatever is necessary to win elections. They are condescending, unscrupulous, and often outright dishonest.

They are the kind of person you would absolutely loathe if they were your boss ("we're going to take more of your paycheck--it's for the common good!"), so why would you trust them to run the country?

Hillary Clinton is one of those politicians.

Ding-ding! Winner. VERY well said.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

I'm curious as to why there is so much Hillary hate. What precisely has she done or not done to get everyone roasting her. Obviously the press despise her (and Bill and Gore), but from a policy standpoint or personality standpoint what is it that exorcises people so much?

Best wishes,

Doug

Crook (Whitewater. ect ect)
Unbelieably phoney(Too many examples to list)
Negative campaigning.
Tired of the Clinton bullshit.

Ding-ding! Another winner. VERY well said. DSP is on a roll!

Take care,
PK

[Brando70]

I am not one to shy away from a good joke or rabid profanity, but how would you guys feel if someone posted an N-word version of JackDog's post about Obama? Still plenty of ding-dings?

[pigpen81]

I am not one to shy away from a good joke or rabid profanity, but how would you guys feel if someone posted an N-word version of JackDog's post about Obama? Still plenty of ding-dings?

Sorry Brando....hardly the same thing IMO....although I am sure the NOW would disagree.

[Jared]

Guys, I understand that people don't like Clinton around here...but throwing around sexist slurs shouldn't be a part of that. Imagine if there was a similar post using a racial slur instead of a sexist slur about various candidates. There'd be a very justified uproar. Just because there aren't women on these forums, or because Hilary Clinton is a disliked and a woman, doesn't mean I'll tolerate those kinds of slurs on these forums.

[pk500]

But Democratic politicians don't win automatically in NY or else Pataki wouldn't have been governor for how many terms?

I said the state is generally Democratic. You would not debate that the Golden State leans left, yet who is sitting in the governor's chair now in Sacramento?

Pataki rolled into office in 1994 on a wave of anti-Cuomo fatigue. People in New York were tired of Cuomo and his Presidential aspirations throughout the 80s.

Pataki also followed a centrist agenda, which was popular. He did more to help the environment and Adirondack Mountain Park than any governor in memory, which is not exactly a top Republican priority. He also passed popular tax cuts in his first term.

But people tired of the "closed-door" method in which N.Y. state government runs, in which Pataki, Assembly Leader Sheldon Silver and Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno meet with no one else and hammer out legislation. It's not a political tall tale, either.

Or how long was D'Amato a Senator up there?

Too long, 18 years. Abscam ring a bell? Plus New York is one of only 14 states currently with two Democratic U.S. Senators.

What should she have done to do a better job? Get more pork projects for upstate appropriated?

Fulfill a promise, maybe? In 2000, she promised to deliver 200,000 jobs to upstate during her first term. Hah. Not even close. Upstate is floundering.

She hit all the buzz words during her first campaign, such as "tax credits," "high-tech sector" and "job creation," and has done little to none of it.

Finally, Hillary is a horseshit-slinging opportunist. Moynihan announces he isn't going to run for re-election in 1999, and Hillary and Bill conveniently buy a house in Chappaqua, shining, happy new residents of the Empire State after having zero prior residency or government involvement here. Yes, I know RFK did the same thing in 1964, and I wouldn't have liked it then, either.

Hillary Clinton is about as useful to New York state as a condom in a pin factory.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

I am not one to shy away from a good joke or rabid profanity, but how would you guys feel if someone posted an N-word version of JackDog's post about Obama? Still plenty of ding-dings?

So, I guess calling a guy a dick is now off-limits, too? It's the male equivalent to the anatomical reference Jackdiggity made.

Take care,
PK

[Jared]

I am not one to shy away from a good joke or rabid profanity, but how would you guys feel if someone posted an N-word version of JackDog's post about Obama? Still plenty of ding-dings?

Sorry Brando....hardly the same thing IMO....although I am sure the NOW would disagree.

If you're in a bar, and someone calls your wife/girlfriend/sister a c***, how do you react? Laugh and say "ha ha, good one"? Or get pissed?

It's a hardcore slur against women.

[Jared]

So, I guess calling a guy a dick is now off-limits, too? It's the male equivalent to the anatomical reference Jackdiggity made.

Take care,
PK

It's the male equivalent of the part...but the c*** word is much more offensive. As an example, the BBC got offensiveness ratings for various swears, and c*** was #1 as the most offensive.

Most offensive words

I'm pretty sure this is the case here in the States as well.

[Brando70]

I am not one to shy away from a good joke or rabid profanity, but how would you guys feel if someone posted an N-word version of JackDog's post about Obama? Still plenty of ding-dings?

Sorry Brando....hardly the same thing IMO....although I am sure the NOW would disagree.

If you're in a bar, and someone calls your wife/girlfriend/sister a c***, how do you react? Laugh and say "ha ha, good one"? Or get pissed?

It's a hardcore slur against women.

Exactly. It's the A-bomb of female slurs. I don't shy away from criticizing women or even being insulting about one I don't like. It's just that word is particularly offensive.

The c-word is just like the n-word in that it's not just a putdown, it's designed to put a group in their place. One could find dick or cock offensive, but they don't serve that same purpose. That's the difference to me.

[pk500]

It's the male equivalent of the part...but the c*** word is much more offensive. As an example, the BBC got offensiveness ratings for various swears, and c*** was #1 as the most offensive.

Most offensive words

I'm pretty sure this is the case here in the States as well.

You're quoting a survey in which the "N word" is only 5 percent more offensive in the "very severe" category than the word "wanker?" A survey in which the "N word" is 29 percent less very severe than the word "f*ck" and 37 percent less very severe than the word "motherf*cker?"

Sorry, I don't think that's the case in the States, as well.

Anyways, back to the 2008 elections for me.

Take care,
PK

[JackB1]

I am not one to shy away from a good joke or rabid profanity, but how would you guys feel if someone posted an N-word version of JackDog's post about Obama? Still plenty of ding-dings?

So, I guess calling a guy a dick is now off-limits, too? It's the male equivalent to the anatomical reference Jackdiggity made.

Take care,
PK

PK...you know that those 2 words aren't on the same level. Anatomically...yes, but call your buddy a "Dick" and then his wife a "C*nt" and see if you get two different reactions. Me thinks you will
I know that J-Dog didn't mean to demean any women with his post (besides Hillary)....but that's just one word I would never toss around lightly.

[wco81]

Which politician has run on principle and integrity, without any personal ambition?

Just curious what people think politicians are. They're not nuns.


What kind of political fundraising isn't shady? Especially with TV advertising costs and the costs of traveling around even a small state, having enough staff to have presence in those states, there's no politician who's going to mount a long campaign solely on checks from individuals.

Does anyone here support public financing of campaigns?

What's the worse problem, that Clinton is playing the fundraising game or that she's playing it better than most candidates?

[JackB1]

So, I guess calling a guy a dick is now off-limits, too? It's the male equivalent to the anatomical reference Jackdiggity made.

Take care,
PK

It's the male equivalent of the part...but the c*** word is much more offensive. As an example, the BBC got offensiveness ratings for various swears, and c*** was #1 as the most offensive.

Most offensive words

I'm pretty sure this is the case here in the States as well.

The British have different sensitivities to certain words than we do. However, I would put any racial or prejudiced based slurs at the very top of the list. A lot also depends on the context in which the word is used.
It's hard to say what's worse... The "C" word or the "N" word? One is demeaning to a whole gender...the other to a whole race. They are both horrible IMO. I don't even think the "C" word has a male equivalent Pr*ck? C*ck? D*ck? They aren't on the same level.

[Naples39]

I don't see anything wrong with most political fundraising. It's not the best thing in the world, but it's how the game is played.

However, when one of your top donors goes to jail for fraud because he was funneling money to your campaign via a pyramid scheme, well, that is pretty sketchy IMO.

[Jared]

My apologies for using the British list...I couldn't find a similar poll for American English. But I am pretty sure that c*** is also one of the most offensive words in American English.

Let me make it clear, though. I'm totally fine with people expressing their opinions here (whatever they are), people using insults (within limits), people using profanity, etc. But I draw the line at racism and sexism, and using racist and sexist offensive terms. Both the c- and n-words are, like Brando said, slurs that are designed to put a group in their place.

[Jackdog]

My apologies for using the British list...I couldn't find a similar poll for American English. But I am pretty sure that c*** is also one of the most offensive words in American English.

Let me make it clear, though. I'm totally fine with people expressing their opinions here (whatever they are), people using insults (within limits), people using profanity, etc. But I draw the line at racism and sexism, and using racist and sexist offensive terms. Both the c- and n-words are, like Brando said, slurs that are designed to put a group in their place.

I did not use that word to demean a whole gender. It was my description of the b*tch in question.

[JackB1]

I did not use that word demean a whole gender. It was my description of the b*tch in question.

How about this?

V ery Phoney
A lways lying
G o home to Bill
I rritating Voice
N ot Into Men
A nnoying

[RobVarak]

I did not use that word demean a whole gender. It was my description of the b*tch in question.

I'm stuck in in an interminable online legal seminar today, just miserable. But this made my day

That said, the C word does qualify as the nuclear option of anti-female vocabulary.

[wco81]

Fulfill a promise, maybe? In 2000, she promised to deliver 200,000 jobs to upstate during her first term. Hah. Not even close. Upstate is floundering.

She hit all the buzz words during her first campaign, such as "tax credits," "high-tech sector" and "job creation," and has done little to none of it.

Finally, Hillary is a horseshit-slinging opportunist. Moynihan announces he isn't going to run for re-election in 1999, and Hillary and Bill conveniently buy a house in Chappaqua, shining, happy new residents of the Empire State after having zero prior residency or government involvement here. Yes, I know RFK did the same thing in 1964, and I wouldn't have liked it then, either.

Hillary Clinton is about as useful to New York state as a condom in a pin factory.

Take care,
PK

She really promised 200k jobs? And you guys believed a Senator would deliver that? I can see a governor offering tax incentives to bring businesses to the state but there would have to be a lot of deals like that.

How is she going to promise such things when she was going to be a rookie Senator in the minority party of the Senate and House?

Now if she chaired some key committee and appropriated pork, maybe some govt. jobs would be created but I doubt there's anyone in Congress who could appropriate that many jobs in his constituency.

What bills did she draft for tax credits? What kind of a high-tech sector is there upstate? Usually high-tech corridors cluster around universities with strong science and engineering programs. You can't just will them into existence and you can't create them from scratch within a Senate term.

If she was selling such unattainable goals, her winning the Senate seat, especially as a carpet-bagger, must not have been too automatic as you suggest.