Soccer thread 07/08

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:12 pm

Liverpool recently linked with Wayne Bridge - I'm so relieved! Can't wait for us to buy another average player! Leave the world-class players for the likes of Chelsea and ManU - Gerrard and Torres are more than enough for us...

Can we at least get Macherano signed up ffs! After that we can trade Kuyt and Voronin for a pack of cigarettes, maybe flog Lionel Richie back to Birmingham and sell Crouch to Newcastle for whatever daft money those morons will give us. We should also sell Harry Kewell to some Australian A-League team. Then hopefully our owners, Statler & Waldorf ( http://www.muppetcentral.com/_images/muppets/sandw.jpg ) can release some funds for Rafa for a central defender, someone else who can score a goal (or even have the balls to get a shot on target) and a world-class winger.

While I'm dreaming I'd also like world peace and a pony....

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:45 pm

Sheffield Wednesday has no money to sign anyone, so at least I can skip the pay attention to the rumours part of my day this year.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:31 pm

Macca00 wrote:Liverpool recently linked with Wayne Bridge - I'm so relieved! Can't wait for us to buy another average player! Leave the world-class players for the likes of Chelsea and ManU - Gerrard and Torres are more than enough for us...

Can we at least get Macherano signed up ffs! After that we can trade Kuyt and Voronin for a pack of cigarettes, maybe flog Lionel Richie back to Birmingham and sell Crouch to Newcastle for whatever daft money those morons will give us. We should also sell Harry Kewell to some Australian A-League team. Then hopefully our owners, Statler & Waldorf ( http://www.muppetcentral.com/_images/muppets/sandw.jpg ) can release some funds for Rafa for a central defender, someone else who can score a goal (or even have the balls to get a shot on target) and a world-class winger.

While I'm dreaming I'd also like world peace and a pony....

You don't want Titus Bramble?

If I was the manager of Liverpool here's what I would do...

Sell Kuyt, Voronin as soon as possible. Use the money to buy supporting strikers for Torres. Heck maybe even Berbatov or Robbie Keane.

If you look at the line-up, they could add a true left winger and play Babel more. And how good are the fullbacks. They could also find someone younger than 45 to play center defense.

Finding a guy that could complement Torres should be priority number one. And if you aren't going to play Crouch, sell him and use the money.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:19 pm

JRod wrote:
You don't want Titus Bramble?

If I was the manager of Liverpool here's what I would do...

Sell Kuyt, Voronin as soon as possible. Use the money to buy supporting strikers for Torres. Heck maybe even Berbatov or Robbie Keane.

If you look at the line-up, they could add a true left winger and play Babel more. And how good are the fullbacks. They could also find someone younger than 45 to play center defense.

Finding a guy that could complement Torres should be priority number one. And if you aren't going to play Crouch, sell him and use the money.

The math doesn't add up with respect to Berbatov. I'd love him, but even if you sold Kuyt and Voronin, you're still way below the asking price for Berbatov...even if the owners open the purse strings.

People are crucifying Rafa for not playing Babel more, but I can't believe that most of these people have seen him play much. He's looked impressive in certain spots, but totally raw and overmatched at others. This isn't unexepcted for a player of his age in the EPL, but it's not like running him out there is going to make him a solid contributor this year.

I'm much more critical of Rafa for the Crouch situation. Not just for failing to play him, but for his inability to get the squad to use the big lunk the right way. He's ok when heading the ball down, but he's even better with the ball at his feet. He's a tidy little passer when it comes to the little 10-yarders that you need to spring someone...exactly what Torres needs. But whenever the string bean hits the pitch the rest of the team starts drilling balls 15' in the air! I thought that this would stop after a few games, but they still do it...drives me nuts!

My dream signing is Daniel Alves, but he's not any more realistic a target than Berbatov. He's been Rafa's white whale for years, and it is quite frustrating that LFC can't just throw stupid money at him like Chelsea or ManU will.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:33 pm

fsquid wrote:DIY stores? Translation?

Naples confused the everloving out of me with his response, but were you after me, Squiddy? DIY = do it yourself, referring to home improvement. In your part of the world it means places like Lowes or Home Depot, that sort of idea.

This asking price that's being thrown around for Berbatov, £31 million or whatever...that's madness, surely? Speaking of madness, Newcastle are attempting to shore up their defence with an offer for Wes Brown, presumably in preparation for the day that their entire back four enters the field of play wearing a red nose and giant shoes.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:37 pm

GB_Simo wrote:Speaking of madness, Newcastle are attempting to shore up their defence with an offer for Wes Brown, presumably in preparation for the day that their entire back four enters the field of play wearing a red nose and giant shoes.

Sir ExLax already shot down the offer, the Guardian and ESPNSoccernet reported.

Take care,
PK

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:02 pm

Sorry, I had the only post of the day when squid responded, and it didn't seem he was replying to one of the earlier posts either.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:34 pm

No worries Naples, I wasn't clicking the link until I read your quote of the moneyballing explanation so you did me some good anyway

pk500 wrote:
GB_Simo wrote:Speaking of madness, Newcastle are attempting to shore up their defence with an offer for Wes Brown, presumably in preparation for the day that their entire back four enters the field of play wearing a red nose and giant shoes.
Sir ExLax already shot down the offer, the Guardian and ESPNSoccernet reported.

Take care,
PK

As are a fair few other places, but I still wouldn't mind betting on him going somewhere. This window has barely opened, after all, and I'm not altogether sure hanging on to him will be a massive priority if he's not willing to sign a new deal. With that said, I don't fully understand why Newcastle would make signing him a priority either.

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:52 am

JRod,

No way Rafa will get the funds to do even half of that - our record buy Torres at 20 million (NOT 26 million as stated by some) is still less than United and Chelsea have spent on individual players over the years. Unfortunately, buying a bunch of mediocre players for the price of one world class player doesn't help us either.

The figures flying around for Berbatov are ridiculous - besides, lets say we do break the bank (again) and spend 30 million on a striker - who's our central defence back-up and who's our winger?

I say we kidnap Arsene Wenger's family and force him to become Liverpool manager (and bring his stable of amazing young talent with him).....

Any chance Liverpool could tempt fat-boy Ronaldinho for a cut-price deal? They don't want him at Barca anymore and even in crap form he'd still be better than Pennant and Kewell put together (and about the same weight).

EDIT: Ronaldhino to Liverpool? LOL I think I've been playing too many videogames....

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:03 am

I did read somewhere that player spending over the last 2 or 3 years is something like this

Liverpool - £134m
Man U - £128m

If I was the US owners, I'd be very wary about giving Benitez loads more dollars - his signings record is pretty poor apart from Torres, Reina and Agger. I'd rate Mascherano at about £5m tops, and as for Ronaldinho, well it's a good 18 months since I saw him play a good game for Barcelona.

Given that this is Rafa's 4th season at Anfield, he must take some of the blame for not having a decent Academy production line. I'm struggling to think of their last home grown talent since Gerrard.

Berbatov for £30m is not good business either, apart from his agent's point of view. It says to potential recruits that Spurs have no ambition to match the big 4, and is about £10m over value from a purchaser's point of view. Still, when people bid £8m for an average RB in a pub league (Alan Hutton, Rangers), definitions of value for money seem a little hazy.

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:39 am

Dave,

Great article here that breaks down the NET spending -

http://www.paultomkins.com/blog_spending_detail.html

It's a long read so the bottom line is this;

1) Benitez Net Spending (since 2004) - 60.4 million
Ferguson Net Spending (since 2004) - 88.3 million

2)Also, comparing the spending since Benitez arrived is bit unfair since Ferguson spend money on players (that have played since 2004) before Rafa arrived - like 30 million on Rio Ferdinand and 19 million on Ruud Van Nistelroy.

I thought Luis Garcia, Xabi Alonso and Momo Sissoko were good buys. I also think Lucas Leiva (Brazilian player of the year) and Ryan Babel could turn out to be good buys. I think his problem has been with buying mediocre players like Pennant, Voronin, Kuyt and so on - I think he could have used that money to buy one or two world-class players but then again that leaves us with little squad depth.

Totally agree with you about the lack of decent Academy players - Gurthrie on loan at Bolton looks decent but still not good enough to start for us.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 am

Macca00 wrote:Dave,

Great article here that breaks down the NET spending -

http://www.paultomkins.com/blog_spending_detail.html

It's a long read so the bottom line is this;

1) Benitez Net Spending (since 2004) - 60.4 million
Ferguson Net Spending (since 2004) - 88.3 million

2)Also, comparing the spending since Benitez arrived is bit unfair since Ferguson spend money on players (that have played since 2004) before Rafa arrived - like 30 million on Rio Ferdinand and 19 million on Ruud Van Nistelroy.

I thought Luis Garcia, Xabi Alonso and Momo Sissoko were good buys. I also think Lucas Leiva (Brazilian player of the year) and Ryan Babel could turn out to be good buys. I think his problem has been with buying mediocre players like Pennant, Voronin, Kuyt and so on - I think he could have used that money to buy one or two world-class players but then again that leaves us with little squad depth.

Totally agree with you about the lack of decent Academy players - Gurthrie on loan at Bolton looks decent but still not good enough to start for us.

Never quite figured out what he saw in Kuyt - or for that matter what the Netherlands manager saw in him since he has a world cup roster spot! Similarly puzzled by Pennant's signing (absolute rubbish).

Agree with Dave, you've got to develop some decent home grown talent to go along witht he big signings. Given Liverpool's resources it's even more important for them than for teams like Man U and Chelsea. Arsenal seem to have a direct line in to terrific young French players who are a fraction of the price of the spoiled, overrated players that often get bandied about in the transfer market as the latest 'quick fix' for positional deficiencies. They take time to develop and Wenger is a master at that and developing a sophisticated system for them.

Maybe Rafa could take a page from his book?

Best wishes,

Doug

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:29 pm

You've got to put effort and resources into Academies over a number of years to get anything out. The reason that City get so much out of theirs is that for years cash was in short supply, so getting youngsters through the system was crucial.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:37 pm

davet010 wrote:You've got to put effort and resources into Academies over a number of years to get anything out. The reason that City get so much out of theirs is that for years cash was in short supply, so getting youngsters through the system was crucial.

It's definitely not a short run thing but it should pay off in the long term - unless they're expecting strictly world class players to come off in a stream from the academies. But hell, even if you develop a few players for the supporting cast and then round out the team with a few first class transfers that's still an advantage.

Was reading somewhere back that English players carry a high premium and that even the medicore ones were going for ridiculous transfer figures. So why not develop your own?

Best wishes,

Doug

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:18 pm

DVR SKy Sports NEws on FSC tonight guys. The highlights from Swansea v. Havant & Waterlooville is worth it. Swansea team lost their heads and just blew up.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:42 pm

fsquid wrote:DVR SKy Sports NEws on FSC tonight guys. The highlights from Swansea v. Havant & Waterlooville is worth it. Swansea team lost their heads and just blew up.

Agreed, but after a potentially career ending two footed challenge from some pub league amateur.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:44 am

the challenge was horrible to say the least, I agree. But a professional team should have held their emotions in check.

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:02 pm

It keeps getting better, I wish I hadn't have watched that Luton vs. Liverpool match. What an awful and absolutely gutless display by Liverpool, Luton deserved to win.

They showed Capello at the match, on that performance I think he's more likely to pick Drew Talbot for England than Peter Crouch.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:28 pm

At least Crouch scored. Apparently Mascherano is worth £17m and Babel £11m, and neither of them would get into City's first team. As for Lucas, I wouldn't pay him in washers.

If I was Benitez, I'd need balls of steel to go to Gillette and co to ask for more money, knowing that the response will go along the lines of

Alonso - £20m, not playing
Babel - £11m, shite
Benayoun - £5m, hopeless
Lucas - £6m, waste of a shirt
Kuyt - £9m, couldn't score in a Turkish brothel with a £10 note wrapped round his nadgers.
Xavi Alonso - £14m, another fine impression of someone who doesn't really have the stomach for it.

"Hmm, and you want us to spend £17m on someone who was only worth half a game, and did nothing while he was on.....ooo, let me think.."

At least Arsenal, Chelsea and Everton had the excuse of resting players because of midweek League Cup ties.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:31 pm

Stoke 0, Newcastle 0. Can't say I'm shocked.

Take care,
PK

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:49 am

They showed Capello at the match, on that performance I think he's more likely to pick Drew Talbot for England than Peter Crouch.

Drew Talbot is KING! I'll never foget his goal is Cardiff.

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:27 pm

To be fair to Rafa if he'd have used a weakened squad against Luton you'd have hear the same b ullsh it about 'rotation' and that he doesn't respect the FA Cup (like when we lost to Burnley in 2005) - of course if Moyes does the same it's because he's resting players.

I'm fairly certain Sven would rather have Mascherano in his team than Hamann. I'm just guessing here.

I also think it's bit unfair to label Xabi Alonso as a poor signing, he was sh1t against Luton (who wasn't) but he's coming back from injury and has played well the past few years. Likewise, that Luton game was the first time i've seen Lucas play poorly - plus he's only 20, Brazilian player of the year last year and it's his first season in England, I actually think he's an astute signing. Ditto for Babel.

I will agree with you on Kuyt though, he had a decent season last year (14 goals) but this season I swear there have been times I've been convinced that I'm a better player than he is. Voronin, ditto but he was free.

I'm pissed at Liverpool's performances and Rafa has to have some of the blame but I don't think he should be sacked - this is the guy that took us to 2 European cup finals in 4 years (that's more European cup finals than Ferguson, Erickson, Mourinho and Wenger), made it to the CL knock-out stage each year he's been here, and finished 3rd - yeah, it's not the championship yet but I think the 606 Liverpool 'fans' have short memories and don't seem to remember when we had Jason McAteer and Neil Ruddock. Rafa's also had proven success in Spain so it's not like he's never won a championship.

Besides, if we sack him, except for Mourinho, who do we replace him with? Klinsmann? Don't make me laugh, what's his achievement - making the semi-final while on home soil.

I don't want Liverpool to turn into Spurs or Newcastle. We're in 5th place, 12 points out of 1st at the halfway point of the season and in the knockout stages of the CL, the way people are talking you'd think we're 17th in the league and out of the UEFA Cup.

/Rant

Macca
[unofficial president of Rafa Benitez' goatee fan club]

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Hamann did shut down Wembley

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:15 pm

Oh I love Didi, he helped us win a European cup and was part of our cup treble side under Houllier. I just think most managers today would rather have Mascherano than Didi at this point in time, that's my guess.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:36 pm

Hamann is just a stopgap - I'd back Corluka and Michael Johnson against Mascherano and Lucas any day of the week.

Oh, and squid - pictures of a certain night in Munich are always at my disposal...