The Mitchell Report

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:27 pm

sportdan30 wrote:MLB will be compared to professional cycling. A flat out joke!

It shouldn't. Cycling's administration is more honorable than that of baseball.

Cycling was pro-active once its drug scandals were uncovered, throwing riders and teams out of major events like the Tour de France and the sport.

Or look at track and field, another sport ravaged by drugs. Marion Jones basically was erased from the sport's permanent record this week. She does not exist as a track athlete anymore. All of her records -- gone. All of her 2000 Olympic medals -- gone. Her future eligibility for Olympic competition or even participation -- gone.

Nothing will happen to the guys named in this report except that they will sign new, fatter contracts and that their entry to the Hall of Fame will be delayed.

Big whoop. Bud "Pontius Pilate" Selig must be so proud. The fake anguish that Selig will portray at his press conference later this afternoon will be high comedy at its finest.

Take care,
PK

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:28 pm

sportdan30 wrote:I'm not apologizing for MLB, but you have to be a moron if you don't think the NFL and NBA doesn't have this same exact problem!

Really? You don't believe that college QBs who slid to the mid rounds due to suspect arm strength can naturally develop rocket arms so powerful that even Randy Moss can't catch his laser passes in the back of the end zone?

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:31 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
sportdan30 wrote:I'm not apologizing for MLB, but you have to be a moron if you don't think the NFL and NBA doesn't have this same exact problem!
Really? You don't believe that college QBs who slid to the mid rounds due to suspect arm strength can naturally develop rocket arms so powerful that even Randy Moss can't catch his laser passes in the back of the end zone?

I see stuff like that all the time in EA roster updates...isn't that normal?

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:38 pm

greggsand wrote:This will be good fodder for the fan rivals. Yanks fans vs Sox Fans, Cards & Cubs.

I can't deny I was feeling some chagrin looking at that leaked list until I got to the 'V's.

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:48 pm

If David Ortiz's name isn't on the list I wlll cry foul over Mitchell's position in the Red Sox organization.

Oh, and Miguel Tejada should be on the list too. Should make his press conference with the Astros a lot more interesting.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:00 pm

spooky157 wrote:If David Ortiz's name isn't on the list I wlll cry foul over Mitchell's position in the Red Sox organization.

Oh, and Miguel Tejada should be on the list too. Should make his press conference with the Astros a lot more interesting.

I think Tejada is. Along Ortiz, you might as well add Ramirez as suspects.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:01 pm

Julian f***in Tavarez? Well, roid rage would explain the pitching mound karate kicks.

To prove PK's original point, I hope that if there are suspensions, it doesn't prevent the Cubs from getting Brian Roberts next year.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:15 pm

I will say that if Chase Utley's name pops up I may give up watching baseball forever.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:26 pm

Varitek's name is on the list....This is not all of the players that have taken steroids just the ones that this investigation found.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:45 pm

webdanzer wrote:Call me cynical PK, but if A-Rod's name is on the list, A-Rod's name will not be on the list, if you know what I mean.

Baseball needs him as the 'clean hope' to erase Bond's tainted record from the books.

Im with ya..."Once we get rid of Bonds we will be rid of roids." Seems to be the manta of MLB and the MLB writers.

No ARod and No Pujols...

sportdan30 wrote:Can't wait to hear all the b.s. denials from the players and agents. Hopefully more than a few will be man enough to admit CHEATING!

No hablo englese...

sportdan30 wrote:I'm not apologizing for MLB, but you have to be a moron if you don't think the NFL and NBA doesn't have this same exact problem!

The only reason anyone cares about it in baseball is cause of the HR records. The average fan doesnt give a rats ass.

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:07 pm

Naples39 wrote:Clemens? Gagne? Bagwell? Pudge? Sosa? Knock me over with a feather.

Some are a little more surprising, like Damon or Prior.

Say it's not so, Pudge! Color me naive, but I always thought he'd be above all this...

And WTF, Varitek as the only Bosock on the list? Hmmm, I smell conflict of interest charges against Mitchell...(edit - missed Spooky's comment above, with which I agree 100%). And I actually like the Sox.

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:11 pm

http://files.mlb.com/mitchrpt.pdf

For your viewing pleasure...

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:13 pm

Blublub wrote:Say it's not so, Pudge! Color me naive, but I always thought he'd be above all this...

Really? Even with the drastic weight loss and power outage after leaving the Marlins? Or were you being sarcastic?

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:30 pm

The Mitchell stuff on 'closure' is ridiculous.

I can see why the Mets let Lo Duca go, though...

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:31 pm

I know PK said that the average fan doesn't care about the roids BS but right around the time the McGuire crap hit the fan that's when I tuned out of baseball. I do care what's happened to the game that I grew up on.

I even started to question how Reggie Jackson went from being a skinny kid to a monster later in his career with the Yankees. It sucks that baseball has been turned into a fraud IMO. It would be better as Canseco said is make all that sh*t legal and at least then you'll have a more even playing field.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:33 pm

Mitchell's recommendation for baseball is something we already know. I think he's marginalized his own report.

Baseball needs a stricter drug policy.

Then he says it would impossible to get all the names that were using and he's heard from other players that there are numerous unnmaed sources where players received illegal substances.

So he has a report telling baseball to adopt a drug policy similar to the NFL. And he admitted there's holes in his report because players didn't speak to him. And there could have been more.

Waste of time. So Bonds, McGuire's and Sosa's records stand because baseball was lazy in the 90s.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:37 pm

JRod wrote:Waste of time. So Bonds, McGuire's and Sosa's records stand because baseball was lazy in the 90s.

Exactly. This report is a hand-washing exercise and an excuse to turn ESPN.com into sports' version of TMZ.com for another day. We go from Ron Mexico with dogs to baseball players with steroid needles -- WHAT RATINGS!

Can't wait to see the tidy little titles the cable news networks and ESPN use to label their coverage, trying to package this into a mini-series of sorts that will produce boffo ratings:

BASEBALL IN CRISIS
BASEBALL'S STEROID SCANDAL
MITCHELL REPORT PLAYS HARDBALL
BASEBALL'S SCOURGE
BASEBALL'S DRUG CULTURE

Whoop-dee-f*cking-doo.

Take care,
PK

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:42 pm

I don't see Albert's name yet........I do see some on there I wouldn't have predicted. Notably, Fernando Vina, Gary Bennett...

Some of these guys didn't need these damn drugs!

We all knew CLEMENS would be on there. He deserves everything that comes to him. Bastard.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:44 pm

It is totally unrealistic to believe that baseball was going to somehow go back and wipe clean the record books. Even if it were inclined to do so, it would be impossible. First of all you have to contend with the enormity of the investigation that would be required. Mitchell's effort took years and cost millions but was only able to put together a cursory survey of the problem. I think it's fair to say that a proper investigation would take the better part of a decade and tens of millions of dolllars. And to what end? So that baseball fans can have the satisfaction of seeing a the record changed?

Furthermore the MLBPA would rightfully do everything in its power to protect its members from the investigation. And I'm not talking about the sort of easy pressuring that it used to thrwart Mitchell. There would be extensive NLRB arbitration and litigation.

I'm really stumped as to exactly what the public wants baseball to do about the problem retroactively. Nobody, and I mean nobody, has a poorer opinion of Bud Selig than I, but the horse has left the barn, died and gone to the great glue factory in the sky...

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:46 pm

I heard that the names are based on hearsay from trainers?

It's not like they have pharmacy receipts as in the case of a few players?

If the documentation is flimsy, it's total BS to out players.

Plus, supposedly it will have recommendations to address the problem.

However, nobody is going to pay attention to any of that. The names will dominate the attention.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:49 pm

wco81 wrote:I heard that the names are based on hearsay from trainers?

It's not like they have pharmacy receipts as in the case of a few players?

If the documentation is flimsy, it's total BS to out players.

Very unlikely. If the documentation was insufficient, both Mitchell and MLB would be subject to billions of dollars' worth of defamation of character lawsuits.

Mitchell is an esteemed lawyer and the chairman of a global law firm. This isn't some paralegal doing a witch hunt.

Take care,
PK

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:52 pm

Oh and the players and incidents listed, they are mostly all the ones already in the press. He offers very little information on new incidents.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:54 pm

I'm just so glad that this timed out in such a way that Stephen A. Smith is on the air to explain the report to me and basically wax loudly without making a single cogent point.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:58 pm

I don't see any problem with naming names. The report is very clear about the source of their information, and there is nothing wrong with presenting the evidence you have and saying we believe 'xyz'. It's not like you have to have a mountain of evidence and be 100% sure before you can say anything.

After listening to this press conference, I don't think much is going to change. Mitchell isn't recommending penalizing the named players, many of which are out of league now anyway. As others have already said, it's hardly groundbreaking to find better testing is needed.

EDIT: The only real novel piece of useful info here was that the players association was helping players dodge tests. Maybe a public relations bonanza was necessary for MLB to get serious about testing?

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:58 pm

The real names list was not nearly as bad as the one leaked earlier. No Pujols, no Bonds, no McGwire, no Sosa. Biggest name by far is Clemens, who seemed pretty heavy into it. Pettite, Tejada, Kevin Brown, and Mo Vaughn were some of the other big ones that jumped out.

Retroactively punishing these guys is not realistic. The NFL had a big steroids problem in the 70s and 80s, and you don't see asterisks next to those records or anyone blinking an eye at them.

Plus Gaylord Perry is in the HoF, and he openly admitted to doctoring baseballs. I know it's not the same as taking steroids or HGH, but it's still clear-cut cheating. So I think everything has to stand and baseball just moves on.