Jeff Gerstmann canned from Gamespot for K&L review?

[pk500]

Typical of the media/liberals.

Huh? What does the gaming press have to do with liberals? And no, the Bush White House NEVER has practiced spin control of the press in any way. No, never, ever ...

Come on, man. Keep politics where they belong -- in political threads.

Take care,
PK

[greggsand]

Typical of the media/liberals.

Huh? What does the gaming press have to do with liberals?

lol. People need to wake-up! Did you read that Orange Box review?? One more review like that & we'll be a bunch of commie pinko socialist!!!

[JRod]

There's a website I just stumbled upon. It's some of the cats who started and ran Operationsports. Shawn Drotar, Mark Fossen, and Chris "Sully" Sullivan. They have no advertising, no arbitrary review scores. Just straight up reviews, industry news, and opinions.

For those who are now suspicious since the Gamespot fiasco here's their new website.

http://www.5w-g.com

There was a game a few years back, where Shawn just whiffed on some of the "bugs" at the time in a review or feature for OS. I believe he was also doing a feature at xbox.com on the same time. I called him out on it and got banned OS.

I lost respect for him from that time on. I wish I could remember the game.

[JRod]

Typical of the media/liberals.

Huh? What does the gaming press have to do with liberals?

lol. People need to wake-up! Did you read that Orange Box review?? One more review like that & we'll be a bunch of commie pinko socialist!!!

Well the game did offer medics. Only a game that is diehard liberal, media-bias, Hillary-loving game, would include medics in a game.

[pk500]

I agree with JRod. I like Shawn; he's a very nice guy. But I had little time for 5WG while he was on the Microsoft dole, writing for xbox.com. Just too big of a conflict of interest for my tastes.

Does Shawn still write for xbox.com? If not, then I'll give 5WG another look.

Take care,
PK

[Leebo33]

I agree with PK and Jrod....always had the same opinion of Shawn.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/friends ... ops2k7.htm

Was the game MVP 2004? Never really cared for Mark's work either. I'm sure they are great guys...nothing personal.

[GTHobbes]

I don't know the guy from Adam and hate to pile on, but I'm another guy who's had the same view of sdrotar for a couple of years now. It always seemed to me like he was getting too many free trips from EA and giving their games too many free passes, especially Madden but also MVP like somebody else has already pointed out. I've always liked Sully though both here and at OS so I'll have to check out their new site.

[pk500]

I don't know the guy from Adam ...

You should get to know GB_Simo from here. Adam is a great guy ...

Take care,
PK

[JRod]

I don't know the guy from Adam ...

You should get to know GB_Simo from here. Adam is a great guy ...

Take care,
PK

Supports questionable football clubs though!

[ExtremeGamer]

I don't believe Shawn writes for XBox.com anymore, but I am pretty sure he writes for EASportsWorld now. There was advertising on that site for 5W-G over the last few months.

The game was MVP 04, I remember that greatly because it was the lefty hitting bug.

[pk500]

I don't believe Shawn writes for XBox.com anymore, but I am pretty sure he writes for EASportsWorld now. There was advertising on that site for 5W-G over the last few months.

The game was MVP 04, I remember that greatly because it was the lefty hitting bug.

Give Shawn credit: He has high-ranking pimps in the gaming world.

Again, Shawn is a good guy, and good for him for landing high-visibility writing gigs.

But I can't take the objectivity of 5WG very seriously when Shawn is/has been on the dole of two of the three biggest giants in the gaming industry. If he starts writing for Sony, the trifecta will be complete.

Take care,
PK

[JRod]

I don't believe Shawn writes for XBox.com anymore, but I am pretty sure he writes for EASportsWorld now. There was advertising on that site for 5W-G over the last few months.

The game was MVP 04, I remember that greatly because it was the lefty hitting bug.

Give Shawn credit: He has high-ranking pimps in the gaming world.

Again, Shawn is a good guy, and good for him for landing high-visibility writing gigs.

But I can't take the objectivity of 5WG very seriously when Shawn is/has been on the dole of two of the three biggest giants in the gaming industry. If he starts writing for Sony, the trifecta will be complete.

Take care,
PK

Agreed.

[ScoopBrady]

I'll stick up for Shawn here in regards to MVP 04. I never saw the lefty bug either. Through 40 games in my Cubs season Corey Patterson led the team in HR's. He had more HR's than Sosa and Alou combined. I know a lot of people saw this lefty bug but it was never an issue for me so I could see how it is possible he didn't see it either. Now a Corey Patterson bug where they made Corey Patterson too prolific of a homerun hitter was definitely there.

[pk500]

The more I play K&L, the more I realize Gerstmann was right.

This is a mediocre game, at least on the PC, marred by an awkward control system and an even more awkward accuracy model for shooting. I can be stationary and have the crosshairs square on a guy's temple, and it still takes three shots to put him down.

Too bad. The game has promise, but it's poorly executed. And there are too many other good new games to play.

Take care,
PK

[RobVarak]

Apparently there is a boycott of Gamespot today. Glad to participate in this endeavor. In fact I got a head start by not visiting this, IGN or any of these ridiculous sites in about 5 years.

<<--- Sticking it to the man since 2002

[ScoopBrady]

<<--- Sticking it to the man since 2002

I've heard that about you.

[ScoopBrady]

The more I play K&L, the more I realize Gerstmann was right.

This is a mediocre game, at least on the PC, marred by an awkward control system and an even more awkward accuracy model for shooting. I can be stationary and have the crosshairs square on a guy's temple, and it still takes three shots to put him down.

Too bad. The game has promise, but it's poorly executed. And there are too many other good new games to play.

Take care,
PK

I haven't read his review but I have K&L on rent from Gamefly. I am having some fun with it but there's no way the game deserves more than a 7 and that might be a little generous. The level design and script are top notch but the execution of it all is not on par with the best of it's genre. The multiplayer is executed well but feels incomplete with only 4 maps. What did Gerstmann give it?

[pk500]

What did Gerstmann give it?

6.0

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/ ... ary;review

Take care,
PK

[LAking]

Gamespot has issued a statement denying that he was fired or let go because of advertising pressure. They also make a point to say nice things about him and wish him good luck. I'm still waiting to find out what really happened.

[pk500]

Gamespot has issued a statement denying that he was fired or let go because of advertising pressure. They also make a point to say nice things about him and wish him good luck. I'm still waiting to find out what really happened.

A classic case of CYA and PR against a possible lawsuit by Gerstmann. Nothing more.

If anyone believes that statement from Gamespot, there's a lovely piece of oceanfront property in Manitoba for sale. Check it out.

Take care,
PK

[LAking]

Gamespot has issued a statement denying that he was fired or let go because of advertising pressure. They also make a point to say nice things about him and wish him good luck. I'm still waiting to find out what really happened.

A classic case of CYA and PR against a possible lawsuit by Gerstmann. Nothing more.

If anyone believes that statement from Gamespot, there's a lovely piece of oceanfront property in Manitoba for sale. Check it out.

Take care,
PK

I wouldn't be surprised if gamespot did fire him because of the review, i'm just pointing out that there is really no evidence to support either side. It's probably all for legal reasons, but there still nothing substantial.

[sdrotar]

I don't believe Shawn writes for XBox.com anymore, but I am pretty sure he writes for EASportsWorld now. There was advertising on that site for 5W-G over the last few months.

The game was MVP 04, I remember that greatly because it was the lefty hitting bug.

That's right. At that time, Steve Noah (Mr. OS) was still getting early copies of titles. This was a rare opportunity to review a game and get it out at launch - which never happened at OS.

Did I miss the lefty bug? Yes, I did. But please keep in mind that it became visible and famous only after tons of people in OS' forums started to sim thousands upon thousands of man-hours' worth of seasons before it became visible.

There are certain things communities like OS and DSP can do that individuals sometimes cannot - it's simply a matter of scale.

That said, if the sum of my years of work is boiled down to missing the lefty bug in MVP '04, might I be so bold as to say that you're not giving me a fair shake?

Give Shawn credit: He has high-ranking pimps in the gaming world.

Seriously; I don't have the slightest idea what you mean by this. I'd be happy to discuss it if you wouldn't mind elaborating.

Again, Shawn is a good guy, and good for him for landing high-visibility writing gigs.

But I can't take the objectivity of 5WG very seriously when Shawn is/has been on the dole of two of the three biggest giants in the gaming industry. If he starts writing for Sony, the trifecta will be complete.

Take care,
PK

I feel that I have to address this, because - and unfairly, I might add - my credibility and my site's credibility is being called into question by someone who has no actual knowledge of the situation - and that concerns me.

First and foremost, of course I'm trying to land high-visibility gigs - I'm trying to build a site with my own money, blood and sweat (first, OS; now, 5WG). I don't have the capital for advertisements, so I'm trying to put my work in front of as many people as possible instead. I don't find that unreasonable.

But the crux of this argument is the misconception that I'm "on the dole", as PK stated. I know I haven't been sharing my finances with PK, so I'm not sure where he gets his information.
What I can assure, however, is that he's wrong - completely.

(BTW, PK - I'm trying not to take this personally. We get along fine; and I'm just trying to make sure people get their information from the source so the facts are straight. I don't want Mark or Chris to get painted with a broad brush due to inaccurate information that I let slide, OK? )

I am fully versed in the ethics of journalism, and that's why I've never accepted a dime for any publisher for any of my content - ever. I simply can't stress this enough. I have a real editing job; my games coverage is simply an expression of my love for the medium.

In most cases, like with Xbox.com; I've offered my services for free up-front; I simply wanted to increase the visibility of the site I'm writing for.

Have I visited studios? Yes. Have I been on press junkets? Yes. Do I receive review copies of titles? Sometimes, yes. This is no secret. But it's important to note that there isn't a media outlet who hasn't - it's part of the job. This is how studios disseminate information, and it only makes sense to be there - it's the only way to speak directly with developers and get the measure of the men and women that build the games we play.

As a writer, my credibility is the only thing of value I have, and I have absolutely no desire to place it at risk. Credibility comes as a byproduct of consistent and authentic work, something that I strive for every day.

I stand behind my work as a game journalist, and I'm confident that if the whole of my work is evaluated without preconceived nations, you will find it to be both reasoned and reasonable.

Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this, and I'd be happy to do so further, whether it's here, at 5WG, or in personal correspondence. Truth is the currency of the writer, and I'm an open book. I'm happy to follow up with any of you regarding any questions you may have.

Thanks!
- Shawn

[pk500]

Shawn:

Appreciate the clarification, and it's interesting that you're not being paid for your services by Microsoft or EA.

Still, have you written reviews for sites owned by Microsoft and EA of titles developed and/or produced by those respective companies? And if you have, can you claim complete, unvarnished objectivity when reviewing for those sites?

Finally, have you ever ripped an MS or EA title in a review for one of those sites?

I'm curious, not accusatory.

But the bottom line is that both Microsoft's Xbox site and EA Sports World are nothing more than house organs, PR gaming megasites for the respective companies. So it's only natural for me to question your objectivity when you write about those companies' games at 5WG considering that you've written shiny, happy editorial for their house organ Web sites, paid or unpaid. You've admitted that your motive is to increase exposure for 5WG, and the only way you can do that is to write copy that pleases the masters of the MS and EA sites. They're not going to retain you -- providing exposure for 5WG -- if you shred their games.

I was a professional journalist for 5 1/2 years and have been a PR professional for the last 14 years. While in print journalism, there's no way my paper would have let me write racing PR for a fluff motorsports weekly, paid or unpaid, while I was employed by my paper.

Appreciate your candor, man. I applaud your efforts at 5WG, as it fills an underserved niche in the marketplace -- intelligent writing about games.

Take care,
PK

[Jimmydeicide]

Ok but the Nhl08 reviews from his site 5wg and any others i might add who were invited to EA were fluffed up a bit . Caught up in the excitement perhaps or told not to say anything negative its still all too similar to what the original post is about.

[JRod]

Did I miss the lefty bug? Yes, I did. But please keep in mind that it became visible and famous only after tons of people in OS' forums started to sim thousands upon thousands of man-hours' worth of seasons before it became visib

Well missing it is one thing, you failed to rectify it. Whether it was a small blurb at the end of your review stating the correction or on the forums acknowledging it at the time.

I remember how stubborn you were to even acknowledge a problem like that in the forums. That's the issue. I would say even the most hardened sports gamers know that the Bill Abner's of the review business will miss something. It's the fact that you were so reluctant to acknowledge an issue that severe, when all the facts were pointing in that direction, is what made me question your credibility.


As for the Xbox.com stuff, it's pure fluff but then again no one expects that there will be hard-hitting exposes on xbox.com.

But I never get a the sense that journalistic integrity is coming through in your stuff (I don't believe video game reporting is journalism but that's the word I'm going to use). And that's mostly because of your posts on the OS forums. I don't have a litany of posts to quote that show where I think your off but the tone and writing doesn't appeal to me for the reason I stated above.

To me it's a lot like pastapadre.com to a much lesser extent. I visit the site to get first looks at screens and movies but I know he's nothing more the an EA mouthpiece after coming over from a madden fan site. Then up until recently he's was taking every opportunity to slag off non-EA games while propagandizing games like EA Live.

Finally people understand that the web review business is all about site hits and no one can fault you for that. But it seems writing fluff pieces for xbox.com, doesn't seem to add to the portfolio of journalistic integrity.

With your choices to write for xbox.com and EA, along with your posts on the OS forums and 5w-g, I just never get the feeling that it's genuine. I'm sure it is but the perception from your pass gaffs makes it difficult for me to take your stuff seriously.