Soccer thread 07/08

[RobVarak]

Bah! I'm no Chelsea fan, but that whole UEFA badges setup is just ridiculous. Bureaucratic fetishism taken to the extreme.

[Rodster]

In other Football news the Gay World Cup kicks off today in Buenos Aires.

[davet010]

Bah! I'm no Chelsea fan, but that whole UEFA badges setup is just ridiculous. Bureaucratic fetishism taken to the extreme.

On one hand, it can be seen as an attempt by the various Manager's Associations to protect their members livelihoods.

On the other hand, i don't think that it was asking too much of Chelsea to ask Avram Grant, who after all has been at the club for a while, what coaching certificates he actually holds.

The system works well in other countries, and hopefully works to reduce the number of ex-players in England who go straight into club management, usually with very poor results. For some reason, Sky Sports seems to use a number of them as pundits, such as Tony Cottee, David Platt and the laughably incoherent Paul Merson.

[fsquid]

We have it here in the states. To coach in college, you need some level of FIFA badge.

[JRod]

Arsenal tops the league. Sell Henry, and prove they don't need him. And now they have a 70 million pound kitty. All of this goes on while Liverpool's Rafa blames England for Liverpool's woes. And Abramovich can't buy a team with all of his money.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story ... 04&cc=5739

[10spro]

The overall play of C. Fabregas and E. Adebayor has made every single fan say Henri who? Fabregas is becoming the motor for the the Gunners.

[Rodster]

A question for all you Football Freaks. Why did Chelsea part ways with Jose Mourinho? Didn't he bring them a couple of Championships? I've read the guys a great Coach, why on earth would they let him go? I've also read that Chelsea has had a slow start to the season but that's no reason to part with a winning coach.

[pk500]

A question for all you Football Freaks. Why did Chelsea part ways with Jose Mourinho? Didn't he bring them a couple of Championships? I've read the guys a great Coach, why on earth would they let him go? I've also read that Chelsea has had a slow start to the season but that's no reason to part with a winning coach.

Power struggle between owner Russian billionaire Abramovich and Mourinho that has festered for the last two years.

Abramovich forced the signing of players Mourinho didn't want, such as Abramovich's close friend and fellow Commie Shevchenko. Abramovich also wanted free-flowing football, while Mourinho preferred one striker up front and focusing on defense. Negative, but effective.

Also, Abramovich wanted Champions League silverware over everything. Nevermind that Mourinho delivered Chelsea its first two top-flight titles in 50 years, won the FA Cup and Carling Cup, and made it to the knockout stages of the Champions League.

Plus Abramovich brought in Frank Arnesen as director of football, which Mourinho took as a slight, and also brought in his buddy Avram Grant, an Israeli coach who barely even was a blip on the European coaching radar, to help run the football operations.

Grant succeeded Mourinho after he was sacked last week.

Take care,
PK

[Naples39]

A question for all you Football Freaks. Why did Chelsea part ways with Jose Mourinho? Didn't he bring them a couple of Championships? I've read the guys a great Coach, why on earth would they let him go? I've also read that Chelsea has had a slow start to the season but that's no reason to part with a winning coach.

Long story short: meddling owner wants more control than egotistical coach was willing to give. Now that the team is off to slow start and didn't win championship last year, timing was right for owner to push him out.

[JRod]

He might have had an ego but there's no doubt Mourinho was a good manager.

[davet010]

Mourinho basically won his titles with the squad that he inherited - the bulk of the players that he brought in have been crap, even the ones that were his idea rather than Abramovich's

[seanmac31]

A question for all you Football Freaks. Why did Chelsea part ways with Jose Mourinho? Didn't he bring them a couple of Championships? I've read the guys a great Coach, why on earth would they let him go? I've also read that Chelsea has had a slow start to the season but that's no reason to part with a winning coach.

Because the owner had spent a lot of money and was tired of watching 1-0 on a team with the firepower to win 3-0.

[davet010]

Like Seanmac said, he was sick of being bored to tears, embarassed by their failure to get anywhere near filling the stadium last week v Rosenborg, by their boring football...

but most of all because Mourinho was vocal in rejecting the two players Abramovich brought in (Shevchenko and Ballack) almost from the start. The last straw, most likely, was not naming Ballack in their 25 man squad for the CL group stages when his current injury is not supposed to be serious.

Personally, I don't think he is in the top echelon of coaches either currently or in the past. His 2 wins were with a team most of whom he had anyway, and they couldn't do it when it mattered in Europe. By the end he sounded almost like the Drunken Scotsman.

Still, he's trousered the best part of $40m as a payoff, and probably has an exclusion clause to say that he can't manage another Prem club this season. Any more than that would likely break EU rules on free movement of labour.

[Rodster]

Like Seanmac said, he was sick of being bored to tears, embarassed by their failure to get anywhere near filling the stadium last week v Rosenborg, by their boring football...

but most of all because Mourinho was vocal in rejecting the two players Abramovich brought in (Shevchenko and Ballack) almost from the start. The last straw, most likely, was not naming Ballack in their 25 man squad for the CL group stages when his current injury is not supposed to be serious.

Personally, I don't think he is in the top echelon of coaches either currently or in the past. His 2 wins were with a team most of whom he had anyway, and they couldn't do it when it mattered in Europe. By the end he sounded almost like the Drunken Scotsman.

Still, he's trousered the best part of $40m as a payoff, and probably has an exclusion clause to say that he can't manage another Prem club this season. Any more than that would likely break EU rules on free
movement of labour.

Thanks for the clarification Dave. I guess Mourinho sounds like our version of Barry Switzer who won the Super Bowl with the Dallas Cowboys. A team created from scratch from the former Head Coach Jimmy Johnson.

[dougb]

Bad news for Newcastle and England,

Owen under the knife for groin injury.

Doug

[pk500]

Bad news for Newcastle and England,

Owen under the knife for groin injury.

Doug

Hell, he's missed about twice as many matches than he's played since arriving on Tyneside, so this feels like normal service is restored.

Still a bummer.

Take care,
PK

[10spro]

Owen has been injury prone the last couple of seasons.

[Jared]

*Spoilers for those watching the US-Brazil game on tape delay*







Worst performance possible for the US. The commentators are going crazy about the GK change (Scurry for Ryan)...but none of the goals were her fault (the 2nd goal took a deflection from a player that might even have been offsides). But the midfield play of the US has been poor during the entire tournament, and continued today. They've had little possession, and the service to the forwards has been poor.

We might have had a chance to come back at 2-0 (Brazil's defense is weak...although they haven't been tested at all this game). But the second yellow on box was possibly one of the worst calls I've ever seen in my life.

And my lord...Marta is unbelievable on the ball.

[jimd]

Like Seanmac said, he was sick of being bored to tears, embarassed by their failure to get anywhere near filling the stadium last week v Rosenborg, by their boring football...

but most of all because Mourinho was vocal in rejecting the two players Abramovich brought in (Shevchenko and Ballack) almost from the start. The last straw, most likely, was not naming Ballack in their 25 man squad for the CL group stages when his current injury is not supposed to be serious.

Personally, I don't think he is in the top echelon of coaches either currently or in the past. His 2 wins were with a team most of whom he had anyway, and they couldn't do it when it mattered in Europe. By the end he sounded almost like the Drunken Scotsman.

Still, he's trousered the best part of $40m as a payoff, and probably has an exclusion clause to say that he can't manage another Prem club this season. Any more than that would likely break EU rules on free
movement of labour.

Thanks for the clarification Dave. I guess Mourinho sounds like our version of Barry Switzer who won the Super Bowl with the Dallas Cowboys. A team created from scratch from the former Head Coach Jimmy Johnson.

I wouldn't go that far. I dislike Mourinho's ego as much as the next guy, but he won the Champions League and the UEFA Cup with Porto before coming to England--not too shabby.

How about our version of John Gruden? A pretty good coach, but not nearly the genius he thinks he is.

[Naples39]

*Spoilers for those watching the US-Brazil game on tape delay*







Worst performance possible for the US. The commentators are going crazy about the GK change (Scurry for Ryan)...but none of the goals were her fault (the 2nd goal took a deflection from a player that might even have been offsides). But the midfield play of the US has been poor during the entire tournament, and continued today. They've had little possession, and the service to the forwards has been poor.

We might have had a chance to come back at 2-0 (Brazil's defense is weak...although they haven't been tested at all this game). But the second yellow on box was possibly one of the worst calls I've ever seen in my life.

And my lord...Marta is unbelievable on the ball.

I have been casually following the WWC, and to me, to change goalies in the semi-finals based on the style of play of your opponent is nothing short of absurd.

Be that as it may, Solo RIPPED Ryan after game. More or less saying "anyone who knows anything about the game wouldn't make that change," "I know I would have made those saves..." Seems like some of these individuals aren't used to the pressure of the big stage.

I also just saw the red card to Boxx, and I have to say, that is one of the worst calls I have ever seen. It wasn't even a foul, let alone a second yellow offense.

[Macca00]

Some points:

i) I'm sure Josephina is a good manager (see his record at Porto) but it's difficult to gauge just how good he was at Chelsea since he had so much bloody money to spend (and like, Dave mentioned, some of his best players were already there when he arrived - Makalele, Fat Frank, Terry, etc).

I also think part of the reason he was 'fired' had something to do with not winning the Champions League.

ii) Thank God Rafa rested Torres for the Birmingham game, that way he was fit and ready for our number one priority this season - The Carling Cup.

iii) I want to have Marta's babies.

[Jared]

iii) I want to have Marta's babies.

That move on the 4th Brazilian goal was sublime. Youtube is blocked at work here...but I'll try and find it later and put the link up. I've never seen a goal like that in the women's game before.

[Zeppo]

Interesting to me was to hear DiCicco say that Ryan 'lost credibility with his players' with the GK change. After thinking he was the right man for the job after the horrendous tenure of April Heinricks, his moves, or lack thereof, throughout this tournament have changed my mind completely. The Olympics seem soooooo long ago . . .

He used just about the same lineup the whole tourney, so keeping players fresh was not part of his plan. He brought Ally Wagner, even though at most she would have been able to go :30 in any game, and he never used her. He should have started that speedy defender Ellertson for this match, instead of changing up keepers; that would have been a much more useful move. Instead of bringing on Hucles, or Tarpley, or anyone who can attack, he changes defenders in the 2nd half. Finally brings Ellertson on when it's 3-0. Just horrendous.

The referee was a joke from the word go. Three times in the first 15 minutes, she called fouls on Waumbach when Abbey was simply standing her ground and the Brazilian players were crashing into her. Not even a raised elbow, and on two occasions, Waumbach never even moved one inch, yet somehow her getting smashed into was her infraction. Then came the 2nd yellow on Boxx, which I would agree is the worst call I've ever seen. Then there was the non-call on the clear-as-day hand ball in the box on the Brazilians. Judging by how the game ended up, I don't think it would be fair to blame the loss on the referee, but there's no doubt in my mind that she was a big factor.

It was frustrating to watch them so incapable of finding any kind of attack. Waumbach was getting hammered all day, and just about never saw the ball. All the positives that came out of the England game's 2nd half were eliminated the moment Ryan announced the GK change. Sure, the goals weren't technically her fault, but as Foudy said, the whole reason she would be in there would be to make the kind of saves she SHOULD have made on that 2nd goal. I didn't see any deflection, I saw Lopez get fouled on the touchline before Marta made the run past her, and then let go of her shorts instead of pulling her down. Boxx was worthless the entire tournament, except for parts of the 2nd half against England, and Lloyd was just as bad if not worse. There was no midfield the whole tourney, and forget about any kind of playmaker in the middle of the field. When Ryan is relying on Boxx and Chalupny (who I thought was the most consistently good player for the US this tournament) as playmakers, he's clearly doing something wrong.

It's a shame, because there is some talent on this squad and they could have done better if they had played to their abilities. However, it was pretty clear throughout the WC that USA has NO speed, and that was a problem from the beginning. Only O'Reilly is anything close to fast, and Ellertson who didn't play more than an hour the whole tourney. No speed, no creative playmakers, no monster in the middle like Akers was, especially with Boxx and Lloyd both playing well below what we've seen in the past, and there you go. I wonder if US Soccer will have the guts to can Ryan before the Olympics. Somehow I doubt it, but after this GK thing, I can't imagine the players will give him the time of day.

Germany is the class of the game right now. They have so many good players, solid defenders, Birgid Prinz and good ol' Renate Lingor to feed her the ball, plus a good GK. Brazil, sad to say it, has no chance against them. They're just too big, too fast, to strong, too skilled, and way, way too organized. Brazil will not get the space they saw today, and will not be able to handle the dynamic and efficient attack of the Germans. But hey, we'll see what happens. For about 50 minutes against Norway, I thought Germany might be in trouble.

[RobVarak]

Interesting to me was to hear DiCicco say that Ryan 'lost credibility with his players' with the GK change. After thinking he was the right man for the job after the horrendous tenure of April Heinricks, his moves, or lack thereof, throughout this tournament have changed my mind completely. The Olympics seem soooooo long ago . . .

He used just about the same lineup the whole tourney, so keeping players fresh was not part of his plan. He brought Ally Wagner, even though at most she would have been able to go :30 in any game, and he never used her. He should have started that speedy defender Ellertson for this match, instead of changing up keepers; that would have been a much more useful move. Instead of bringing on Hucles, or Tarpley, or anyone who can attack, he changes defenders in the 2nd half. Finally brings Ellertson on when it's 3-0. Just horrendous.

The referee was a joke from the word go. Three times in the first 15 minutes, she called fouls on Waumbach when Abbey was simply standing her ground and the Brazilian players were crashing into her. Not even a raised elbow, and on two occasions, Waumbach never even moved one inch, yet somehow her getting smashed into was her infraction. Then came the 2nd yellow on Boxx, which I would agree is the worst call I've ever seen. Then there was the non-call on the clear-as-day hand ball in the box on the Brazilians. Judging by how the game ended up, I don't think it would be fair to blame the loss on the referee, but there's no doubt in my mind that she was a big factor.

It was frustrating to watch them so incapable of finding any kind of attack. Waumbach was getting hammered all day, and just about never saw the ball. All the positives that came out of the England game's 2nd half were eliminated the moment Ryan announced the GK change. Sure, the goals weren't technically her fault, but as Foudy said, the whole reason she would be in there would be to make the kind of saves she SHOULD have made on that 2nd goal. I didn't see any deflection, I saw Lopez get fouled on the touchline before Marta made the run past her, and then let go of her shorts instead of pulling her down. Boxx was worthless the entire tournament, except for parts of the 2nd half against England, and Lloyd was just as bad if not worse. There was no midfield the whole tourney, and forget about any kind of playmaker in the middle of the field. When Ryan is relying on Boxx and Chalupny (who I thought was the most consistently good player for the US this tournament) as playmakers, he's clearly doing something wrong.

It's a shame, because there is some talent on this squad and they could have done better if they had played to their abilities. However, it was pretty clear throughout the WC that USA has NO speed, and that was a problem from the beginning. Only O'Reilly is anything close to fast, and Ellertson who didn't play more than an hour the whole tourney. No speed, no creative playmakers, no monster in the middle like Akers was, especially with Boxx and Lloyd both playing well below what we've seen in the past, and there you go. I wonder if US Soccer will have the guts to can Ryan before the Olympics. Somehow I doubt it, but after this GK thing, I can't imagine the players will give him the time of day.

Germany is the class of the game right now. They have so many good players, solid defenders, Birgid Prinz and good ol' Renate Lingor to feed her the ball, plus a good GK. Brazil, sad to say it, has no chance against them. They're just too big, too fast, to strong, too skilled, and way, way too organized. Brazil will not get the space they saw today, and will not be able to handle the dynamic and efficient attack of the Germans. But hey, we'll see what happens. For about 50 minutes against Norway, I thought Germany might be in trouble.

Somebody send this to the Internet Hall of Fame. That is the longest post on women's soccer in the history of the medium.

[davet010]

Well, that was a pleasant afternoon in the English autumnal sunshine...watching City go top.

8 games played, 5 against teams in the top 8...16 points, as well as the winner of 07/08's goal of the season contest (check out Elano's goal to make it 3-1, when you see the highlights).

Can't wait to hear that fat berk Allardyce whining tonight, though his claim yesterday that City had merely splashed out big time would be made slightly ludicrous by the fact that 5 of the 11 who finished the game were youth academy products, with another one on the bench.

Being City it'll all collapse soon, but nice to enjoy it for a brief spell