OT: PC Gaming Hardware Thread

eman · Post by **eman** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:41 am

When I first read through this thread I knew db was right, the E6600 is significantly faster than the PD 3.4, but I questioned what difference it would make in terms of gaming and fps.

See this link for a good comparison on the two processors...

http://tinyurl.com/25ahzq

The person running the shop is either ignorant or a lair. Either way, the processor in that system is inferior in every way to the E6600.

For what it's worth I just bought a new PC. I plan on swapping the PSU and graphics card when i get it. I'm leaning towards a 640mb 8800GTS for $300. I'll also move my 10k rpm Raptor over to further bolster performance.

HP Pavilion Media Center m8100y customizable TV PC
Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium (32-bit)
Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo processor E6850 (3.0GHz)
FREE UPGRADE! 2GB DDR2-800MHz dual channel SDRAM (2x1024)
FREE UPGRADE! 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS, DVI-I, TV-out, HDMI
No Modem
250GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
LightScribe 16X DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
16x max. DVD-ROM
15-in-1 memory card reader, 2 USB, 1394, video
ATSC-NTSC TV tuner with PVR, FM tuner, remote
Integrated 7.1 channel sound w/front audio ports
Norton Internet Security(TM) 2007 - 15 Months
Microsoft(R) Works 8.0
HP multimedia keyboard and HP optical mouse
HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope

Order subtotal $704.99
Shipping (Standard 5-7 Business Days) FREE
PA Tax $54.43
Grand total $759.42

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:29 am

Eman,

You sure you can put a new video card in that HP Tower? A lot of those PCs don't have PCI Express slots so you won't be able to upgrade the video card...especially the ones that have integrated video which it appears that your new machine does.

Edit: Well, according to the HP site, it does have a PCI Express slot, so you'll be fine. Like I told DR...unless you're pushing 1920 x 1200 resolution, you will only need the 320mb 8800 GTS. There just isn't that big of a performance gain at the lower resolutions. The Bang for the Buck of video cards is definitely the 320mb version.

drbaseball · Post by **drbaseball** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:12 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:Eman,

You sure you can put a new video card in that HP Tower? A lot of those PCs don't have PCI Express slots so you won't be able to upgrade the video card...especially the ones that have integrated video which it appears that your new machine does.

Edit: Well, according to the HP site, it does have a PCI Express slot, so you'll be fine. Like I told DR...unless you're pushing 1920 x 1200 resolution, you will only need the 320mb 8800 GTS. There just isn't that big of a performance gain at the lower resolutions. The Bang for the Buck of video cards is definitely the 320mb version.

Also make sure you can upgrade the power supply. I know my old Sony Vaio uses a proprietery PSU, thus making it nearly impossible to upgrade to a more powerful video card that would require more juice.

eman · Post by **eman** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:31 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Eman,

You sure you can put a new video card in that HP Tower? A lot of those PCs don't have PCI Express slots so you won't be able to upgrade the video card...especially the ones that have integrated video which it appears that your new machine does.

Edit: Well, according to the HP site, it does have a PCI Express slot, so you'll be fine. Like I told DR...unless you're pushing 1920 x 1200 resolution, you will only need the 320mb 8800 GTS. There just isn't that big of a performance gain at the lower resolutions. The Bang for the Buck of video cards is definitely the 320mb version.

I found a great deal on the 320mb version for the same price as the 640! I plan on purchasing a 24" monitor so I want the 640 ram.

The PSU is somewhat proprietary but there are options - HP sells a 470 watt unit in their spare parts store. There are also some after market PSU that I'll look into.

drbaseball · Post by **drbaseball** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:36 pm

eman wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:Eman,

You sure you can put a new video card in that HP Tower? A lot of those PCs don't have PCI Express slots so you won't be able to upgrade the video card...especially the ones that have integrated video which it appears that your new machine does.

Edit: Well, according to the HP site, it does have a PCI Express slot, so you'll be fine. Like I told DR...unless you're pushing 1920 x 1200 resolution, you will only need the 320mb 8800 GTS. There just isn't that big of a performance gain at the lower resolutions. The Bang for the Buck of video cards is definitely the 320mb version.

I found a great deal on the 320mb version for the same price as the 640! I plan on purchasing a 24" monitor so I want the 640 ram.

The PSU is somewhat proprietary but there are options - HP sells a 470 watt unit in their spare parts store. There are also some after market PSU that I'll look into.

I don't know that I would be willing to pay the price of the 640mb version and end up getting the 320. I trust you mean the opposite?

drbaseball · Post by **drbaseball** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:51 pm

eman wrote:When I first read through this thread I knew db was right, the E6600 is significantly faster than the PD 3.4, but I questioned what difference it would make in terms of gaming and fps.

See this link for a good comparison on the two processors...

http://tinyurl.com/25ahzq

The person running the shop is either ignorant or a lair. Either way, the processor in that system is inferior in every way to the E6600.

For what it's worth I just bought a new PC. I plan on swapping the PSU and graphics card when i get it. I'm leaning towards a 640mb 8800GTS for $300. I'll also move my 10k rpm Raptor over to further bolster performance.

HP Pavilion Media Center m8100y customizable TV PC
Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium (32-bit)
Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo processor E6850 (3.0GHz)
FREE UPGRADE! 2GB DDR2-800MHz dual channel SDRAM (2x1024)
FREE UPGRADE! 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS, DVI-I, TV-out, HDMI
No Modem
250GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive
LightScribe 16X DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
16x max. DVD-ROM
15-in-1 memory card reader, 2 USB, 1394, video
ATSC-NTSC TV tuner with PVR, FM tuner, remote
Integrated 7.1 channel sound w/front audio ports
Norton Internet Security(TM) 2007 - 15 Months
Microsoft(R) Works 8.0
HP multimedia keyboard and HP optical mouse
HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope

Order subtotal $704.99
Shipping (Standard 5-7 Business Days) FREE
PA Tax $54.43
Grand total $759.42

I'll vote for liar.

When I picked up the computer I asked him about the CPU. I also asked him if the motherboard would support the core duo, i.e. e6600. He emphatically stated "no." He also told me that these Pentium D chips were "so popular" that they had just gone up in price by $100 but he was willing to honor the price he quoted earlier in the week.

Well, I have done some checking. From what I can tell I should be able to pop an e6600 into the motherboard. I would appreciate a second opinion on this, however. The motherboard is an ASUS p5nsli.

Assuming I could upgrade the processor, I will most likely just do that on my own and sell the Pentium D. The rig seems perfectly fine except I know I did not get the right processor for the system. Everything else seems great.

Nonetheless, I just don't want to fool with this guy anymore. Lesson learned. I want to get it right, move on and enjoy my backlog of PC games.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:01 pm

I'm 99% sure that I have that motherboard, and my processor is a Core 2 Duo E6420 which is the same as the E6600 except it runs at 2.13 GHz instead of 2.4 GHz.

[EDIT] Here's what it says on my Cyberpower invoice:

ASUS P5N-E SLI NFORCE 650I SLI MB

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:06 pm

Yup, you'll be fine to drop a Core 2 Duo in that thing with a ASUS p5nsli mobo. No problem.

Just make sure you get a Core 2 Duo with a 1066fsb...the newer ones have the 1333fsb. Any of these models will work:

e6320 1.8 ghz
e6300 1.86 ghz
e6420 2.13 ghz
e6600 2.4 ghz (my processor of choice)
e6700 2.66 ghz

At $230 from Newegg...the e6600 can't be beat in my opinion.

drbaseball · Post by **drbaseball** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:58 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Yup, you'll be fine to drop a Core 2 Duo in that thing with a ASUS p5nsli mobo. No problem.

Just make sure you get a Core 2 Duo with a 1066fsb...the newer ones have the 1333fsb. Any of these models will work:

e6320 1.8 ghz
e6300 1.86 ghz
e6420 2.13 ghz
e6600 2.4 ghz (my processor of choice)
e6700 2.66 ghz

At $230 from Newegg...the e6600 can't be beat in my opinion.

That is indeed great news.

The more I think about it, however, the more ticked I get about the whole situation. I went back and looked at my spec sheet. It says: Intel Core Duo 3.2ghz. There is NOTHING about a "Pentium D."

Now I understand that the Pentium D uses two processors. Knowing what I know now, I think it is very misleading to list a Pentium D as a "Core Duo." I have the manual for the processor and it says "Intel Pentium D." There is NOTHING about it being a "Core Duo."

I've decided to go down there in the AM and raise a real stink. I figure if I have already decided to replace the thing on my own, what do I have to lose? At worst he will tell me to get lost, at best he would give me a $199.99 credit from the Pentium D toward a true Core Duo. I am also going to bring in a copy of New Egg's price for the e6600...just in case he thinks he can jack up the price beyond his normal markup.

I'll be there in the morning, and I'm bringing justice with me! (I live 15 minutes from Tombstone, AZ)

Thanks for reading the rant.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:36 pm

Give 'em hell, man.

eman · Post by **eman** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:06 pm

drbaseball wrote:
eman wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:Eman,

You sure you can put a new video card in that HP Tower? A lot of those PCs don't have PCI Express slots so you won't be able to upgrade the video card...especially the ones that have integrated video which it appears that your new machine does.

Edit: Well, according to the HP site, it does have a PCI Express slot, so you'll be fine. Like I told DR...unless you're pushing 1920 x 1200 resolution, you will only need the 320mb 8800 GTS. There just isn't that big of a performance gain at the lower resolutions. The Bang for the Buck of video cards is definitely the 320mb version.

I found a great deal on the 320mb version for the same price as the 640! I plan on purchasing a 24" monitor so I want the 640 ram.

The PSU is somewhat proprietary but there are options - HP sells a 470 watt unit in their spare parts store. There are also some after market PSU that I'll look into.
I don't know that I would be willing to pay the price of the 640mb version and end up getting the 320. I trust you mean the opposite?

Yes...

eman · Post by **eman** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:36 pm

drbaseball wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:Yup, you'll be fine to drop a Core 2 Duo in that thing with a ASUS p5nsli mobo. No problem.

Just make sure you get a Core 2 Duo with a 1066fsb...the newer ones have the 1333fsb. Any of these models will work:

e6320 1.8 ghz
e6300 1.86 ghz
e6420 2.13 ghz
e6600 2.4 ghz (my processor of choice)
e6700 2.66 ghz

At $230 from Newegg...the e6600 can't be beat in my opinion.
That is indeed great news.

The more I think about it, however, the more ticked I get about the whole situation. I went back and looked at my spec sheet. It says: Intel Core Duo 3.2ghz. There is NOTHING about a "Pentium D."

Now I understand that the Pentium D uses two processors. Knowing what I know now, I think it is very misleading to list a Pentium D as a "Core Duo." I have the manual for the processor and it says "Intel Pentium D." There is NOTHING about it being a "Core Duo."

I've decided to go down there in the AM and raise a real stink. I figure if I have already decided to replace the thing on my own, what do I have to lose? At worst he will tell me to get lost, at best he would give me a $199.99 credit from the Pentium D toward a true Core Duo. I am also going to bring in a copy of New Egg's price for the e6600...just in case he thinks he can jack up the price beyond his normal markup.

I'll be there in the morning, and I'm bringing justice with me! (I live 15 minutes from Tombstone, AZ)

Thanks for reading the rant.

Intel should share in the blame - they've created a circus with their current naming conventions. Many believe this was done to confuse consumers and drive up profit margins.

From what I understand, the "core duo" naming convention is used for laptop processors, not desktops.

See this link

http://www.intel.com/products/processor ... /specs.htm

If your paperwork says Core Duo you have a case. If it says dual core you're sol.

From wiki:

The Pentium D brand was succeeded on July 27, 2006 by the Core 2 branded line of microprocessors with the Core architecture released as dual- and quad-core CPUs branded Duo, Quad, and Extreme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_D#Presler_2

Good luck-

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:41 pm

Core 2 Duo is a desktop PC processor. At least that's what it says on the box I have in front of me.

drbaseball · Post by **drbaseball** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:57 pm

It says Core Duo. There is NOTHING about a dual core.

eman · Post by **eman** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:26 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:Core 2 Duo is a desktop PC processor. At least that's what it says on the box I have in front of me.

Yeah, Core Duo and Core 2 Duo are totally different animals.

Core Duo is based on Intel's Yonah 65nm mobile line. Core 2 Duo is a Conroe chip (65nm) that is designed for desktops.

I love Intel's nomenclature!

drbaseball · Post by **drbaseball** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:49 pm

I stopped by the shop today. The owner wasn't in but I had a pleasant conversation with his tech assistant. He said that he understands my position 100% and has had the exact same argument with "the boss."

He told me to come back on Tuesday. He couldn't promise anything, but he didn't see why it wouldn't be possible to order me an e6600 and do a swap. I had him check his price for the different chip. Looks like it will cost me around $90, which I am more than willing to pay.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:32 pm

I just finished upgrading my system from a 4000+ Clawhammer to a E6750 paired with a Gigabyte GA-P35-S3L mobo. Man am I impressed with the E6750. The damn thing idles at 31C with stock cooling, compared to 45C for the AMD 4000+ CPU.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:53 pm

eman wrote:I love Intel's nomenclature!

They've got nothing on the graphics cards manufacturers.

wpw721 · Post by **wpw721** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:22 pm

Feanor wrote:
eman wrote:I love Intel's nomenclature!
They've got nothing on the graphics cards manufacturers.

How does confusing the customer help them? Is there a method behind their madness?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:23 pm

Rodster wrote:I just finished upgrading my system from a 4000+ Clawhammer to a E6750 paired with a Gigabyte GA-P35-S3L mobo. Man am I impressed with the E6750. The damn thing idles at 31C with stock cooling, compared to 45C for the AMD 4000+ CPU.

Welcome to the other side.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:12 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Rodster wrote:I just finished upgrading my system from a 4000+ Clawhammer to a E6750 paired with a Gigabyte GA-P35-S3L mobo. Man am I impressed with the E6750. The damn thing idles at 31C with stock cooling, compared to 45C for the AMD 4000+ CPU.
Welcome to the other side.

Actually i've been an Intel guy for quite sometime. That AMD CPU was something I bought pretty cheap and wanted to give them a try. I have four PC's in my home and it's 100% Intel now.

I upgraded to the E6750 because the price was dirt cheap and I read that you can O/C this bad boy over 3.2Ghz with stock cooling.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:34 pm

Rodster wrote:I upgraded to the E6750 because the price was dirt cheap and I read that you can O/C this bad boy over 3.2Ghz with stock cooling.

You can do that to the 6400 and 6600 as well. Core 2 Duo's are stable as hell.

eman · Post by **eman** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:12 am

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Use Paypal code Paypal Code PPAL808HDD02 for ad additional $15 dollars off. This is the 500GB 7200.10 "Perpendicular" drive = very fast w/5 year warranty.

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Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:31 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Rodster wrote:I upgraded to the E6750 because the price was dirt cheap and I read that you can O/C this bad boy over 3.2Ghz with stock cooling.
You can do that to the 6400 and 6600 as well. Core 2 Duo's are stable as hell.

Not only that but they are super quiet. My stock CPU fan is spinning at 975 RPM's. The AMD fan spun at 2850-3200 rpm's and the CPU drew more power and put out more heat.

Quick question for you. I installed 2GB of G-Skill PC6400 memory. I went ahead and disabled my paging file in Windows XP. Is a paging file recommended with 2GB of ram installed? I don't think I have a game that uses over 900 megs of ram. Microsoft Flight Simulator X gets into the 750 megs of ram and Company of Heroes uses like 900 meg.

What's your thought on this?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:39 pm

Paging files are worthless to me when you've got 2gb of ram...It's only really necessary when you are running smaller amounts of ram and you need to allocate ram. XP does a pretty good job of that automatically when you've got large amounts of ram.