Madden 08 Hands On

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:50 pm

You can turn the entire system off with the first toggle.

You then have toggles for symbols, etc...but if you toggle the first one everything is off.

HipE · Post by **HipE** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:23 pm

Is anyone having success passing on all pro level without turning the ball over? If so, I could use some pointers. Is it best to play it like APF and just make your throw right after the qb finishes dropping back? Or is it better to use the Madden staple of dropping way back and running outside of the pocket to buy time for your wrs to get wide open? It seems like I throw more picks when I try that, having the ball be in the air so long leads to every db having a shot at making the int. Also, are there less ints if you lob the ball? It seems like the CPU drops more of the lobs I throw than the bullet passes, which always seem to get jumped and turned into defensive tds.

HipE · Post by **HipE** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:30 pm

What quarter length is everyone using this year? I used six minutes in my preseason games and didn't get enough plays, but I liked how quickly I could finish games. I've been using seven minutes during the regular season and having more realistic play counts, but that seems to lead to even more turnovers and defensive tds. Has anyone tried using five minute quarters? Obviously the number of plays would be pretty low, but there shouldn't be nearly as many turnovers at least.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:31 pm

HipE wrote:Is anyone having success passing on all pro level without turning the ball over? If so, I could use some pointers. Is it best to play it like APF and just make your throw right after the qb finishes dropping back? Or is it better to use the Madden staple of dropping way back and running outside of the pocket to buy time for your wrs to get wide open? It seems like I throw more picks when I try that, having the ball be in the air so long leads to every db having a shot at making the int. Also, are there less ints if you lob the ball? It seems like the CPU drops more of the lobs I throw than the bullet passes, which always seem to get jumped and turned into defensive tds.

Don't play it like APF. You will get killed. The throws are never on target like APF and you really can't lead like in that game.

In one respect you have to throw to the receivers at their break. If you wait for them to get open it allows the DB in on the play.

I'll post more on this tonight when I can. If you play the APF passing game in Madden you will get destroyed. It's so different and shows off how poor the passing mechanics are in madden.

There's nothing you can do about the DBs and super interceptions. I use Squint's sliders at OS and they seem to be the best I've seen. It will not eliminate the INT situation but it controls it.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:47 pm

I've tried rolling out but the pass rush is pretty good and they jump corners and posts pretty well.

You can conservatively go for underneath patterns and flats (those can be jumped too) but one thing I notice is that the stud RBs are not getting by the first tackler like they did last year, either by Truck Stick or elusiveness.

So the RAC opportunities don't seem to be there (although defenders get great returns after ints.).

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:48 pm

TCrouch wrote:I only played a handful of snaps in the game, but it was pretty...I don't think the character models are even close to the 360 version, but the lighting is cool and obviously the resolution destroys it.

Yeah, the player models aren't as good, but that's about the only thing. Their look and textures are MUCH better though...so it evens out when it comes to the player models I think.

It's just crazy how smooth they made the game...I can even play it on LOW settings on my laptop, which is strictly an internet and travel laptop. It's got virtually nothing in terms of graphical horsepower. If I really want next-gen football I've still got NCAA, so it's not like I'll be missing much playing Madden on the PC. If anything, it's good that the PC version matches up with the PSP version pretty well in terms of how it plays.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:01 pm

HipE wrote:Is anyone having success passing on all pro level without turning the ball over? If so, I could use some pointers. Is it best to play it like APF and just make your throw right after the qb finishes dropping back? Or is it better to use the Madden staple of dropping way back and running outside of the pocket to buy time for your wrs to get wide open? It seems like I throw more picks when I try that, having the ball be in the air so long leads to every db having a shot at making the int. Also, are there less ints if you lob the ball? It seems like the CPU drops more of the lobs I throw than the bullet passes, which always seem to get jumped and turned into defensive tds.

Actually, Hip, I am. I've played four games with variety of passers, and I've only thrown three picks. Aside from the obvious stuff (don't throw into double-coverage) here are some humble suggestions:

--I do think you should not drop back a ton. Getting set definitely is important. With a more mobile guy like Vince Young, I think you can scramble a bit to buy time, but I have been doing much better setting my feet before the throw.

--Don't try to bullet pass over LBs and safeties, even if you have a lot of space between your receiver and the defender. There's a "normal" throw between the tap lob and the hard bullet pass, and I have had some success getting the ball over defenders to my receivers (at least, more than I did in last year's PC version).

--For deep passes, if your receiver has position inside, throw it harder if you have one-on-one to avoid the other magic defenders breaking off coverage and swatting. Move the L-stick inside on the throw and you can probably avoid a CB jumping the pass too. If the defender is inside, I'd go up and out with a lob to try and thread it to your guy. I've actually had this work a few times.

--Work your weapons. I think one of the biggest changes is the difference between good players and average ones. I played as the Cards and Boldin was a beast. With the Chefs, I had a lot more success going to Tony Gonzalez.

--Switch and jump. Height and leaping ability seem to matter in Madden now, and I've had a lot of luck switching and jumping for the ball. This is especially helpful if a safety drifts over and you need to make a play to catch or at least drop the ball and avoid the pick.

--Hot route blockers. I think the biggest problem with passing is that the playbooks still work like old Madden where there are a billion receivers every play. The better pass rush means you need more help, so I have started keeping backs and TEs in to help.

Good luck!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:19 pm

I guess I'm glad the PC version has an older game engine, because I'm not seeing the problems with INT's or fumbles that you console cats unfortunately are encountering.

Really pleased so far. Grabbing that roster update to which Rodster referred, too!

Take care,
PK

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:22 pm

I reset the interception game and played it again and it was fantastic. I lost 17-27 at SF as SEA but they scored the last TD with just a minute or two left. I played 3 games this afternoon and they were all great. Not counting the anamoly, the 3 complete games I played included only 4 CPU turnovers. I turned it over 11 times, but many of those were all my fault. I could have easily emimated 4 of them. Only 2 TD returns in the 3 games one for me and one for the CPU both in the same game. Lots of cool stuff in all the game. The CPU ran for over 185 yards in two of the games but I shut down Indy's running game as NE. Peyton Manning was 20/30/199/1/1 against me...Alex Smith 17/28/204/2/1...Eli Manning was 22/27/250/2/0.

I'm playing on Pro with almost all my defensive sliders on zero except kd's at 100 and tackling/break block at 25. 8 minute quarters, weapons off. I also lowered my offensive running a bit.

Two things I noticed:

- the CPU never substitutes RBs. Gore, Jacobs, and Addai had all the carries unless it was a FB. Jacobs carried it like 35 times against me.

- It really sucks that the CPU doesn't challenge calls and it almost cost them big time in the Seattle game. Gore got stuffed and was clearly down when he fumbled. Lucky for the CPU it bounced right to the QB. I'm going to have to have a house rule that for game-changing stuff like that I challenge if possible.

Madden 08 is awesome when the turnovers are under control.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:25 pm

pk500 wrote:Really pleased so far. Grabbing that roster update to which Rodster referred, too!

Footballfreaks.com is some random fantasy football league page. I can't find it there.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:38 pm

it is football-freaks.com

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 2:51 pm

fsquid wrote:it is football-freaks.com

The PC rosters available at football-freaks.com also include attribute changes for selected players, which I don't like. Too many of those are biased decisions by the roster author based on favorite players and teams rather than real data.

I want a simple roster update. Players on correct teams based on this week's rosters in training camps. No attribute changes.

Haven't found that yet. If anyone has found that, please let me know. I'm sure it will come soon, especially after NFL teams make final cuts.

Thanks,
PK

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:57 pm

greggsand wrote:I rented it (360), played about 6 games, and think I'm bailing on this game. The INT's, magical DB's, and lack of presentation (in-game stats anyone?) are bumming me out. Speaking of in-game stats - is it that hard?

Playing against th 49'ers, Gore was pounding me to death. I wondered, "how many yards does this dude have?". Only way to find out-pause, menus, stats look-up. 'b-button'x3 to get back to the game. that's fun! Didn't the very first Madden-game ever have in-game stats??

Gonna try some Superstar Mode as a last resort....Anyone else try this yet?

edit:new rosters are up (360)

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:52 pm

I don't what it is, but something keeps me playing this game. Yes, I'm seeing high INT's for the most part, but the game is fun to play.

I'll say this again, game pace is perfect. Running off a few games each night has never been so fast.

eman · Post by **eman** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:39 am

For years I've purchased Madden for the PC and have always preferred it to the console versions. This year I finally broke down and purchase a 360 + HDTV and I'm very disenchanted.

The menu systems in these next gen games suck. For God's sake, I cant cycle from my QB to my RB in the stat menu without some painful button combination. The menu music gives me a headache and the play by play seems like a cruel joke. And where's the quick replay feature? Everything about the menu system is cumbersome and irritating. I feel like taking a sledge hammer to the entire system...

After reading db's point about the field seeming larger on the PC version I fired up Madden 07 on the PC and compared it with Madden 08 (360) and field in the 360 version seems very crowded. Throwing the ball in the middle of the field without risking an interception is impossible.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:05 pm

JRod wrote:In one respect you have to throw to the receivers at their break. If you wait for them to get open it allows the DB in on the play.

I'll post more on this tonight when I can. If you play the APF passing game in Madden you will get destroyed. It's so different and shows off how poor the passing mechanics are in madden.

I'm sorry JRod but qb's should be throwing the ball when the receivers hit their break and DB's will get back into the play on open receivers downfield. They won't get back in the play on short routes but anything medium or long they will. I think Madden forces you to read who is going to be open (more realistic IMO) and occasionally you will have a wide open guy to throw to. In APF I don't fear throwing a INT if I make a mistake. In Madden I pretty much know I will if I make a mistake. I wouldn't be so quick to say that the passing mechanics in Madden are poor just yet.

The problem with many early critiques in any sports game or messing with sliders too early is the fact that the games closely resemble their past counterpart but are usually much different under the hood. If you play Madden like you played the past 2 360 versions it would be easy to say that the passing game sucks and there are tons of turnovers. If you take the time to learn the subtleties of this years version there really isn't a turnover issue.

The biggest problem that sliders created is people are using them as a first resort rather than a last.

I, for one, am very pleased with Madden this year after finally getting to spend some quality time with it over the past couple of days. I haven't seen anything in my time with the game that jumps out at me as total bullshit. The only 2 complaints I have are the radio announcer and the fact that I think they took out the live opponent feature from last year. Zep and I used that one quite a bit and it made me get into my season more and I felt like I got to see more of the game by playing as some of Zep's opponents that I usually wouldn't play as.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:22 pm

greggsand wrote:
greggsand wrote:I rented it (360), played about 6 games, and think I'm bailing on this game. The INT's, magical DB's, and lack of presentation (in-game stats anyone?) are bumming me out. Speaking of in-game stats - is it that hard?

Playing against th 49'ers, Gore was pounding me to death. I wondered, "how many yards does this dude have?". Only way to find out-pause, menus, stats look-up. 'b-button'x3 to get back to the game. that's fun! Didn't the very first Madden-game ever have in-game stats??
Gonna try some Superstar Mode as a last resort....Anyone else try this yet?

edit:new rosters are up (360)

Eh, Superstar is(could be) fun actually, BUT the games themselves are jacked-up. It seems the CPU v CPU suffers from the same INT-problem. In one game, my team (the bears) lost 7 to 82!!!! My guy is a WR & Grossman (cpu controlled) threw 8 INT's! 6 of which were returned for TD's.

The next game, final score KC 52 CHI 14???? LJ ran for 370 yards. Oy, anyone else see the same thing?

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:03 pm

I started a Bears franchise since the new rosters were up, and I saw my third game where the CPU threw zero picks. This was preseason with Matt Schaub and whoever is the Texans backup. There were a couple fumbles and I threw a heinous pick with Kyle Orton (if it's in the game). I played 8 min quarters, all-pro, with INTs at zero for both and Defensive Awareness at 30. The CPU QBs actually lit me up pretty well.

I'm not saying there's not a problem, but I haven't seen a truly WTF game after playing about 7-8 games so far. I'm also having success throwing WR slants and hitting me TEs over the middle. You can't drop a pass over an LB, but if you have a lane you can hit short and medium passes over the middle.

Is anyone seeing many penalties? I moved them up to 80 for holding and 70 for a few others (PI, facemask, grounding) and have seen just 1-2 per game (not counting encroachment from the fake snap).

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:11 pm

There's a difference between the CPU and human-controlled passing.

The interceptions are one thing but the returns are another. Way too common and you have no-name DBs LBs making athletic ints. followed by long returns weaving through would-be tacklers, either juking through them or running through tackles or just outrunning them to wide-open lanes.

There seems to be more pass interference called but the defenders are jumping balls and bumping WRs out of the way to get to the passes. Then there are fair number of tipped ints. as well.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:36 pm

I have played the Rams season opener with the Panthers 6 times on AA 8 min qtrs just to see what would happen. I won 3 and lost 3. Every game was different. Only two blowouts(one for each side).CPU INTs varied from 5 to 0.

I think alot of the game is based on momentum. Once the CPU gets it you are in for a very rough ride. Once you get it and really get it going thats when the int and fumble flooddgates open.
When the cpu has the mo its nearly impossible to run and your pass protection goes completely to hell.

Passing on AA is hard in large part due to the spacing db refered to. Its just very tight and with the super aware dbs any mistake is punished.
I dont have HD so I have serious trouble judging the out patterns on some plays.

Though frustrating on occasion, but arent reall football games sometimes, I like the game alot as a whole.
Now to play the rubber game of My season opener and the rest of the season.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:30 pm

I'm using modified All-Madden sliders so my experience might be different from all of yours.

About INTs -
Either I'm spotting where a cheese INT can pop up and throwing away from it or the slider have minimized it, I'm not sure. I know I'm seeing less but its still not that good. Part of the problem is the stupid passing AI by the CPU. I've seen Manning just casually toss one to a guy sitting right in front of the player for a pick. When I look at the replay it's just a boneheaded move by the AI and even the less talented joystick jockeys wouldn't make that pass. That's part of the problem with Madden. I think I've got the game where the 5 game INT fests are gone. That was a game killer. I think INTs are about 1-2 too many per game but its acceptable know and they don't radically change the make-up of the game.

Key Players -
Here's another EA idea that's good in theory but doesn't get it right. In a game where I had Indy v Miami, why isn't Harrison lighting up my team. Miami's DBs are rated 81-78 (might have change with the roster update). Yet Manning will throw to the 3rd WR all the time. In the last game, the Colts WR3 had 8 passes while Harrison and Wayne had 3 each. And I never doubled, spotlighted or anything to Harrison. I don't really fear good WRs.

Those are my two biggest issues with Madden. For the most part, I'm having fun with Madden. I really can't go back to APF right now because I want to play at Cutler and Bailey. But those things above take some fun out of the game for me. I guess I want to fear Manning and Harrison like in the NFL. I should worry about Brady lighting me up. I don't right now.

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:39 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:
JRod wrote:In one respect you have to throw to the receivers at their break. If you wait for them to get open it allows the DB in on the play.

I'll post more on this tonight when I can. If you play the APF passing game in Madden you will get destroyed. It's so different and shows off how poor the passing mechanics are in madden.
I'm sorry JRod but qb's should be throwing the ball when the receivers hit their break and DB's will get back into the play on open receivers downfield. They won't get back in the play on short routes but anything medium or long they will. I think Madden forces you to read who is going to be open (more realistic IMO) and occasionally you will have a wide open guy to throw to. In APF I don't fear throwing a INT if I make a mistake. In Madden I pretty much know I will if I make a mistake. I wouldn't be so quick to say that the passing mechanics in Madden are poor just yet.

The problem with many early critiques in any sports game or messing with sliders too early is the fact that the games closely resemble their past counterpart but are usually much different under the hood. If you play Madden like you played the past 2 360 versions it would be easy to say that the passing game sucks and there are tons of turnovers. If you take the time to learn the subtleties of this years version there really isn't a turnover issue.

The biggest problem that sliders created is people are using them as a first resort rather than a last.

I, for one, am very pleased with Madden this year after finally getting to spend some quality time with it over the past couple of days. I haven't seen anything in my time with the game that jumps out at me as total bullshit. The only 2 complaints I have are the radio announcer and the fact that I think they took out the live opponent feature from last year. Zep and I used that one quite a bit and it made me get into my season more and I felt like I got to see more of the game by playing as some of Zep's opponents that I usually wouldn't play as.

As a precursor, let me note that I am generally enjoying Madden quite a bit. I'm also accustomed to the DB play at this point, and I'm really not throwing interceptions at all, aside from the occasional flying MLB getting in on a crossing route. That said, Jrod is basically right- the APF passing game works correctly and the Madden passing game really doesn't. In APF, you throw your timing routes with proper tempo- the QB hits the last step of his drop and throws, the receiver breaks and the ball anticipates where the receiver is going. In Madden, that type of throw is intercepted about 85% of the time because the DBs react before the WRs. Madden requires very precise throws that take into account the tight spacing and the super-reactions of back seven players. You can make a passing attack work, and you can even throw most routes, but the timing isn't correct.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:11 pm

XXXIV wrote:I have played the Rams season opener with the Panthers 6 times on AA 8 min qtrs just to see what would happen. I won 3 and lost 3. Every game was different. Only two blowouts(one for each side).CPU INTs varied from 5 to 0.

I think alot of the game is based on momentum. Once the CPU gets it you are in for a very rough ride. Once you get it and really get it going thats when the int and fumble flooddgates open.
When the cpu has the mo its nearly impossible to run and your pass protection goes completely to hell.

Passing on AA is hard in large part due to the spacing db refered to. Its just very tight and with the super aware dbs any mistake is punished.
I dont have HD so I have serious trouble judging the out patterns on some plays.

Though frustrating on occasion, but arent reall football games sometimes, I like the game alot as a whole.
Now to play the rubber game of My season opener and the rest of the season.

Playing the exact same way, team and all.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:23 pm

Scoop,

The sliders weren't need for the Human passing game. They were needed becuase the Human defense were intercepting 4-6 balls a game and 50% of those were returned for a TD.

I'm going to dive in the intricicies of Madden's passing game. So for those of you that think I'm over analyzing Madden skip the next part.

The passing game in Madden is a crap shoot. Match-ups don't really matter. Speed definately doesn't. You just zip a pass in and hope the DB or LB doesn't swoop in for the INT.

The entire passing problem stems for the size of the field, the size of the players and the physics of the ball. Madden has always had this problem. Everything is so crowded that it hurts Madden. There's no way most of the LB knockdowns would happen in the NFL. They don't have that kind of range nor can a human react as fast as they do in Madden. There needs to be created space for the passing game to florish.

Then you have the ball physics. It's really hard to throw the ball long on a fly route. On those passes you want to throw it too deep or right on, short would mean the DB has a chance at the INT. That's impossible to do in Madden. The ball is always short letting the DB get back on the play or worse knockdown the over the should pass which would be impossible in real football.

While the human can adapt to all fo this, the CPU AI doesn't. It throws terrible passes because it doesn't know how the AI gets cheesy sometimes.

Once I got the INT under control, I started to have fun. I did not have fun when I was winning by 5 TDs and 3 were INT TDs. APF has better blocking mechanics, and passing mechanics. The running game is too slow compared to madden and the controls have been well documents as being sloppy at times. Again, you feel that this is the distinction between FIFA and WE. WE had more going on with its own set of issues. Madden is simple football. To be succesful in Madden you don't need to know football you need to know Madden and its flaws. That's not a bad thing its just Madden.

In APF, I would have a system of checks in my mind. Check where the DB lines up, is he guarding the slant, in, bumping me or playing off. Then check the LB if he's in zone. Then quickly see where the Safety moves. Then look at the WR if he's got enough seperation or if he's in a one on one to challange the DB.

I don't come anywhere close to that in Madden. I certainly don't worry about a lot of match-ups. Golds are so dominant in APF that they can overtake the game. In Madden, I look to see if the defense will be in a cheese situation. Comeback routes are deadly in this game becuase the DBs come back better than the WRs. The MLB thing is cheese because a bullet will get picked off. And a lob will float so much that the safety will have time to pick it off. In madden I'm play against that situation.

I'm having fun just doing exibitions in Madden. I think its as unpolished as NCAA, IMHO. I think its more of the same but its fun. Plus I just want to play as the Broncos in a season. I want to see what Travis Henry can do and if Javon Walker will help Cutler. And if Bly and Bailey will be the best DB tandum in the NFL. APF doesn't offer that!

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:24 pm

MizzouRah wrote:
XXXIV wrote:I have played the Rams season opener with the Panthers 6 times on AA 8 min qtrs just to see what would happen. I won 3 and lost 3. Every game was different. Only two blowouts(one for each side).CPU INTs varied from 5 to 0.

I think alot of the game is based on momentum. Once the CPU gets it you are in for a very rough ride. Once you get it and really get it going thats when the int and fumble flooddgates open.
When the cpu has the mo its nearly impossible to run and your pass protection goes completely to hell.

Passing on AA is hard in large part due to the spacing db refered to. Its just very tight and with the super aware dbs any mistake is punished.
I dont have HD so I have serious trouble judging the out patterns on some plays.

Though frustrating on occasion, but arent reall football games sometimes, I like the game alot as a whole.
Now to play the rubber game of My season opener and the rest of the season.
Playing the exact same way, team and all.

Yep...Just smarter in some of the games.

I just noticed I called it AA

Anyway ...Too succeed on All pro you have to mix up your plays. Establish a run to pass and pass well to be able to run. You cant do stupid things or you will pay. you have to use the all the tools availabe...as in hot routes and men in motion. If you do not pay attention to what you are doing you WILL lose.

Rams won game 7 of the opening game series 16-12....the cpu threw 2 ints and did not fumble. I had a very enjoyable 4 minute 12? play 4th qtr drive to come from 12-10 behind on a 1 yd run by S. Jackson(2pt conv failed).

You can really play this game using 9 minute qtrs becuase the cpu does put together some long ass drives.

Game rocks.