All Pro Football 2k8 impressions

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:45 pm

One week in, I'm still finding the game quite splendid... maybe more and more so. A lot of negative chatter has focused on what the game's missing by way of features, but totally de-emphasizes what APF has that the other licensed football games don't. There's the whole game within the game of allotting your teams resources, which is pretty ingeniously balanced for a first year effort in that it seems like there's always one aspect (i.e. run defense, kicking game) where you are going to leave yourself vulnerable. Uniform and logo customization. Created teams online. EA still hasn't reinstated create-a-team at this point. I love seeing other people's created uniforms and team configs on Live.

The game also has the best sense of "pocket" I've ever seen... stepping up to buy time when the pressure comes feels totally natural and works as it should. Some player speed inequities seem to have been fixed from 2K5 (especially when running in open field), and while special teams blocking and DB play aren't perfect, I think they're a step above where they were in 2K5.

I guess I'm realizing that relating 'feature count' to 'value' is not a 1-to-1 proposition. The game's gotten guff for having no franchise mode (see 5w-g.com's write-up, where Shawn called APF a game that "seemed more like an Xbox Live Arcade title - a bite-sized gaming snack"), but after years of playing primarily sports titles I have never ever gotten past year two of any franchise, and until they let you continue dynasties from one release to the next I doubt I ever will. My problem is that I may never get through a single season mode of APF, because I constantly want to tweak my team for better results. There's no way to edit your team in season mode, right? Hell, I restarted my season because I wanted the names on the backs of my jerseys to be a different color.

Nevertheless, I'm playing 10 min. quarters on Legend defaults and am usually engaged from start to finish. No small feat for this casual pigskin fan.

TheTruth · Post by **TheTruth** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:57 pm

I agree Slumber. I haven't touched NCAA in a few days. I am having a great time with APF. The only problem I am having is with the controls. I rented the game and therefore do not have the manual. I have tried looking at the controls in game but it seems it is very lacking, unless of course I have just overlooked where to find the full blown control list. I know the basics, but need all the audible, DL, LB, DB adustment controls, etc.

slyguy · Post by **slyguy** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:01 pm

XXXIV wrote:
Sully wrote:
Danimal wrote:Is no one else seeing really brain dead DB AI at times? It is not as bad as 2K5, but man I see at least 4 or 5 plays a game that piss me off. The conrer route is still a money play against the AI, I can't believe they didn't fix that.

I'm Public Enemy #1 on the OS boards for stating the exact same thing.
Outs seem to work almost every time too.

Yeah i think its still there but not as bad as 2K5. I have been picked going to the well once to often

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:36 pm

slyguy wrote:
XXXIV wrote:
Sully wrote: I'm Public Enemy #1 on the OS boards for stating the exact same thing.
Outs seem to work almost every time too.
Yeah i think its still there but not as bad as 2K5. I have been picked going to the well once to often

Outs work pretty much as they should. Against man coverage and soft zone, they work very well. With a bracketed zone, they are an interception waiting to happen.

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:43 pm

Slumberland wrote:One week in, I'm still finding the game quite splendid... maybe more and more so. A lot of negative chatter has focused on what the game's missing by way of features, but totally de-emphasizes what APF has that the other licensed football games don't. There's the whole game within the game of allotting your teams resources, which is pretty ingeniously balanced for a first year effort in that it seems like there's always one aspect (i.e. run defense, kicking game) where you are going to leave yourself vulnerable. Uniform and logo customization. Created teams online. EA still hasn't reinstated create-a-team at this point. I love seeing other people's created uniforms and team configs on Live.

The game also has the best sense of "pocket" I've ever seen... stepping up to buy time when the pressure comes feels totally natural and works as it should. Some player speed inequities seem to have been fixed from 2K5 (especially when running in open field), and while special teams blocking and DB play aren't perfect, I think they're a step above where they were in 2K5.

I guess I'm realizing that relating 'feature count' to 'value' is not a 1-to-1 proposition. The game's gotten guff for having no franchise mode (see 5w-g.com's write-up, where Shawn called APF a game that "seemed more like an Xbox Live Arcade title - a bite-sized gaming snack"), but after years of playing primarily sports titles I have never ever gotten past year two of any franchise, and until they let you continue dynasties from one release to the next I doubt I ever will. My problem is that I may never get through a single season mode of APF, because I constantly want to tweak my team for better results. There's no way to edit your team in season mode, right? Hell, I restarted my season because I wanted the names on the backs of my jerseys to be a different color.

Nevertheless, I'm playing 10 min. quarters on Legend defaults and am usually engaged from start to finish. No small feat for this casual pigskin fan.

I'm totally with you. I find the team creation at the beginning far more interesting than any franchise or dynasty mode, and it has the added benefit of only taking 5-10 minutes. The only thing that would improve it is if there was a streamlined way to change the playbooks instead of having to go through each play in each formation. When I build a team based around Earl Campbell, I want a number of heavy formations and for most of my pass plays to be play action. As it is, it's kind of a pain to make that happen.

I love the game engine. With a few exceptions, most notably in the user control for defenders, I think it's superior in every way to EA's. As a result, I have a hard time accepting arguments that it provides "bad value." In my book, bad value is a football game that makes you want to spend more time off the field than on it. But that's just me.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:14 pm

I just went to the website to see if i could access the tournament and see if it was full and the web site says it was deleted.

I'll verify when I get home. If it was I will start a new thread and get a list of people before creating it. Tourney or League I don't care.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:19 pm

I created every AFL uniform. (Not APL but the old AFL)

This has all my work.
http://forums.operationsports.com/vBull ... p?t=213405

I like APF but the game needed some slider tweaks to get it feeling right. I'm real close but not there yet. I need to tweak blocking and the CPU run game. They either break a long one or I stuff them in the backfield.

I find myself spending more time in the replay mode every game. I will sit a watch a 5 yard out play because of how my QB evaded the defense and found the WR.

The one thing I love in APF is the feeling of space. NCAA/Madden is too cramped. You have no space between the line and the LBs and from the LBs to the safeties. And there's horizontal spacing that feels right. You aren't going to see a LB playing the rush run straight back and tip a pass in front of your WR.

All in all, APF has ruined NCAA for me. I just can't play it. Seeing Okoye slam throw a line fighting off two guys for a 5 yard gain is amazing satisfying.

Oh the pass engine is incredible. I made a quick team so I could edit the jerseys, and on one team it had Rice Montana. Another had Elway and Rice. Here's what blew my mind, Montana's passing always seem to be pinpoint accurate. I'm not talking that its to the WR. It's to the correct side of the WR, or it leads the WR so he doesn't have to stop a catch the ball. On the flip side, Elway guns the ball. But his passes are all over the place. Again it's not like the miss the WR but he'll throw it slightly off forcing the receiver to make an adjustment.

APF is like WE, it organic football. Anything can happen. Just don't play the LA Legends. Woodson is a damn f'n monster. Think two Champ Bailey's covering one guy.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:20 pm

Dan, I'm getting ready to leave for vacation and will be sitting out this tournament/league, but please count me in for any future tournaments/leagues you create for this game (if any). I hope you guys have a good time with it.

Wilk5280 · Post by **Wilk5280** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:05 pm

JRod,
Great work on those uni's man. Impressive to say the least.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:49 pm

PRBoom wrote:JRod,
Great work on those uni's man. Impressive to say the least.

I'll echo these thoughts, EXCELLENT job!

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:33 pm

Holy s***!! How did you create those uni's? They look excellent. How do you come up with those logos?

One thing I noticed for sure about this game vs 2k5 and previous 2ks is that they finally got the breakaway speed for WR right. In 2k5, you really couldn't break away but in this game you can.

I still say the game is ok, enjoy it but not as much as you guys. maybe if i spent 20 bucks on it I would feel better. Feels more like a filler game to me right now than anything else. If I get the same so-so feeling with madden this year, then I think it's time for me to grab a wii.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:37 pm

Son of a b*!

I can't stop playing the demo.

I'm getting to the point where I don't think a franchise mode will bother me one bit. It's really weird.. the immersion and gameplay in just 5 minutes is really intense.

It definitly has that "fun" factor. While NCAA has been fun, I haven't played it much since the APF demo dropped. Like Danimal, I've kept an open mind and I'm glad I did.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:17 pm

All the logos are in the game. There's enough unis to create a close facsimile of the real unis.

It's really not that hard and while you are going to get it perfect you can create something that looks pretty darn good.

My favorites are Denver (Orange Crush is back baby), Buffalo (these came out really really well) and Houston. I have a modified Redskin uni that is good as well but has a few tweaks

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:33 pm

MizzouRah wrote:Son of a b*!

I can't stop playing the demo.

I'm getting to the point where I don't think a franchise mode will bother me one bit. It's really weird.. the immersion and gameplay in just 5 minutes is really intense.

It definitly has that "fun" factor. While NCAA has been fun, I haven't played it much since the APF demo dropped. Like Danimal, I've kept an open mind and I'm glad I did.

The game is just fun, 95% of the time it makes you smile. I would never make it if this was my only football game, it's just not deep enough for me. But it's a great pick up and play game. I love tweaking my teams.

I'm done dissecting the two titles, both are giving me great enjoyment. I played NCAA for 3 hours last night and didn't even get on the field. Recruiting is just awesome in that game.

It's just a damm good year for football games, I hope Madden follows the trend.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:58 pm

I'm with you Danimal.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:55 am

As one person who only plays one football title yet tries every one released I would say that the APF raises the bar on madden. For me it's like going from WE to FIFA. Almost exactly. APF plays good football, NCAA/Madden has every real team and real game modes.

I want to tackle NCAA without the gameplay and just recruit.

Back to APF... I've never rooted for my team after a touchdown or interception. In WE or FM I feel like cheering after they put it in the back of the onion bag. More important than that you get a feeling you earned that goal most of the time. Well in APF that feeling is back after scoring a touchdown. Throwing a fade in the endzone and hooking up is a great feeling. Often times you get shutdown. Getting shutdown on the 1 yardline is the reason why scoring from the one with Natrone Means is so damn fun.

Like WE you get the feeling you are playing football and not a system of football. That's a sign of a very good game.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:00 am

After playing the demo, I must say that I am feeling rather weak and gearing towards the store to buy APF. The controls are very responsive, the passing game is a beauty where the QB can read the play adequately and that extra space that 2K gives you in the pocket, is what gets me in the game. Love the touch pass. And this is with Cunningham, those of you controlling Montana or Marino must be in heaven.

Running the ball also feels right. The holes are there for you to explore and if you follow your blocker correctly and react accordingly you can gain some nice yardage. The graphics don't bother me at all, it's not at par with EA by any means, some more textures would have been nice in some models but the overall gameplay of the game just overshadows the graphics in this case for me.

And nice job on the uniforms JRod.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:06 am

10spro wrote:After playing the demo, I must say that I am feeling rather weak and gearing towards the store to buy APF. The controls are very responsive, the passing game is a beauty where the QB can read the play adequately and that extra space that 2K gives you in the pocket, is what gets me in the game. Love the touch pass. And this is with Cunningham, those of you controlling Montana or Marino must be in heaven.

Running the ball also feels right. The holes are there for you to explore and if you follow your blocker correctly and react accordingly you can gain some nice yardage. The graphics don't bother me at all, it's not at par with EA by any means, some more textures would have been nice in some models but the overall gameplay of the game just overshadows the graphics in this case for me.

And nice job on the uniforms JRod.

I'm finally putting MLB 2k7 to rest and picking APF up today.

There is so much this game does right, I want to support this company and another football game.

I could probably get by with NCAA and APF this year... and just might.

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:10 am

I have been playing through a season mode. I have Johnny Unitas and OJ Simpson as my main offensive threats – with Rocket Ismail and Cliff Branch (I took Rocket because he fills the role of return man as well.

What has frustrated me (I am 4-4 at the midpoint) is that I have lost 2 games to teams that were 1-5 and 0-5 at the time I played them. I don’t know if it was bad matchups or just bad gameplay by me – but if I had just won those 2 games, I would be 6-2 and in first place.

I have been playing 8 minute quarters with the fast clock to burn time between plays, so if I get behind, I find that I get out of my offense and try to get it all back at once. Consequently, Unitas has a horrible TD to interception ratio. And OJ will get 180 yards one week and 40 the next.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:24 am

kevinpars wrote: I have been playing 8 minute quarters with the fast clock to burn time between plays, so if I get behind, I find that I get out of my offense and try to get it all back at once. Consequently, Unitas has a horrible TD to interception ratio. And OJ will get 180 yards one week and 40 the next.

How many offensive plays do you get with the 8 minutes/ accelerated play clock? Curious to know before I start up a season.

JRod, I have to respectfully disagree about you WE comparison. Now, I haven't played FIFA in some time, but as far as comparing NCAA and APF to WE itself, I find EA's game to be closer purely because of player control. In EA's game, I feel player control is responsive and the players feel like they have mass. 2K's game still has that massless, air-filled feeling to the players to me, at least until they come in contact with other players, and they still have that merry go round pole up their ass, through their back and up through their head in the way they move. It's as if the real player in terms of the physics is a stripper pole, and the body that we see is just window dressing. It's not quite as bad with changing direction as it was in 2K5, but it still feels like that to me.

What's weird is that I haven't seen one single instance of Mario running in NCAA, but I've seen it quite a bit in APF. Often the guy will Mario into the back of an O-lineman, and then burst forward like a spring once he gets free of the impediment. How strange that this artifact has shifted from one franchise to the other.

Don't get me wrong, I like the 2K game a lot, but the player control issue is huge for me and I feel a lot more in control in EA's game, whereas in 2K's game I feel like I'm along for the ride at times.

Oh yeah JRod, the thing you said about 2K having more space on the field is dead on. EA's defenders are way too quick to recognize, way too fast in their first step, and way too Mr. Fantastic with their leaps, and it makes the field feel much more crowded. Well, that and the insistence of these devs (both games) to make symmetrical formations. There is no reason, no reason at all, that my flanker on the wide side of the field can't be outside the numbers (another example of EA's 'if it's in the game, we don't know what you're talking about!) and that doesn't help the sense of space on the field, either. Sometimes I wish these guys would just go to a football game once in their lives and, imagine this, PAY ATTENTION to the details.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:57 am

I would also like to hear the settings everyone is playing on and quarter times as well.

I'm more of an "out of the box" defaults player, so unless something is totally out of whack, good min per quarter settings would be great.

Thanks!

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:08 am

I am playing straight Legends mode, with 10 minute Acc clock, penalties maxed out.

I really like the way they do the ACC clock in this game. What they do is after you call a play it burns the clock down to 20 on the play clock really fast.

Except you need to be careful inside 2 minutes it doesn't go away. So you could be trying to run hurry up and think your going to get another play off and it runs down the time on you.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 11:12 am

What's the avg. number of plays per team in an NFL game again? 60-ish?

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:33 pm

Slumberland wrote:What's the avg. number of plays per team in an NFL game again? 60-ish?

It's been going up a little bit in recent years, thanks in large part to clock rules changes. The rule of thumb used to be 120 plays per game for both teams combined, but these days it's not uncommon to see 130 or 135 total offensive plays in the NFL. College seems to average closer to 140 total plays per game, if I remember correctly.

I'm not sure I'm looking for a full simulation in terms of number of plays, because even at the default 5 minute setting the game takes so damn long. I'm super spoiled by WE, where the 20 minute setting, which takes less than 30-35 minutes to get through a game, feels a lot like a full, real game. I'm playing NCAA at 6 minute settings, and while i haven't played very many offline games, the thing takes forever and I'm not feeling like I get enough plays to have real shifts of momentum.

I find it just incomprehensible that Madden's ranked game is at the 4 minute setting. Sure, it allows you to get through a game in a lot less than an hour, but it's a pure sprint, more like a two lap race than a 5 lap race. If you don't start fast, you're done.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Thu Jul 26, 2007 12:41 pm

Danimal wrote:I am playing straight Legends mode, with 10 minute Acc clock, penalties maxed out.

I really like the way they do the ACC clock in this game. What they do is after you call a play it burns the clock down to 20 on the play clock really fast.

Except you need to be careful inside 2 minutes it doesn't go away. So you could be trying to run hurry up and think your going to get another play off and it runs down the time on you.

Thanks! I think I remember 9 mins in the old 2k5 game.