Brando70 wrote:
That was a very good article. The stuff about the older players was pretty funny. And I liked the bit about the decals on Michigan's helmets setting message boards ablaze -- gee, wonder which site he might have been talking about?
My favorite part was at the end:
"You know, we put all that work into the hair," Chau says with a sigh. "And 80 percent of the time in the game, the [players] have their helmets on."
Whew, I'm glad he figured that out at some point in the development process, so as not to be disappointed when he played the completed product.
It is a pretty positive article, though, and does a good job of selling the game. Also it contends that 2K's hope is to be able to do a sequel and get all those real legends signed that they were unable to this time around, like Bo Jackson and Lynn Swann.
Brando70 wrote:
That was a very good article. The stuff about the older players was pretty funny. And I liked the bit about the decals on Michigan's helmets setting message boards ablaze -- gee, wonder which site he might have been talking about?
My favorite part was at the end:
"You know, we put all that work into the hair," Chau says with a sigh. "And 80 percent of the time in the game, the [players] have their helmets on."
Whew, I'm glad he figured that out at some point in the development process, so as not to be disappointed when he played the completed product.
It is a pretty positive article, though, and does a good job of selling the game. Also it contends that 2K's hope is to be able to do a sequel and get all those real legends signed that they were unable to this time around, like Bo Jackson and Lynn Swann.
Yeah, we have no franchise, but was have The Boz's hair!
I do hope the game succeeds because with more former players and some more features, I think it could really be something.
I liked the idea of a high school game. I imagine the commercial appeal is not so great, but if you could do something like start as a freshman and work your way to varsity, that could be a lot of fun.
After seeing it, I'm looking forward to it, but not as a long term game. There is some personal bias in that because I'm more of an off-line/hot seat guy than I am in playing people on Live. The Season stuff is bare bones. 2K is banking on people creating teams and rosters and playing them online.
Graphically I thought it looked a whole lot like 2K5 but with the fake teams. The player ratings aren't "generic"; they are not there at all. There are no ratings outside of the skills. I actually like the skill idea a lot. Anything is better than the 100 point system that EA uses. I despise that and I always have. I've never understood it. I like how Montana has the Cadence skill and how Jerry Rice runs fantastic routes. I guess Madden's new Weapon system is similar, but there are a lot more skills than weapons.
I actually love the team creation stuff. Some of the stadiums look wild (in a good way). The jersey options are great, and it come with a ton of city and nicknames. I think that's all slick. It just doesn't look complete yet. I dunno how a franchise mode with this design could work to be honest. Anthony says they are already working on expanding the solo mode stuff, so who knows.
Bill_Abner wrote:After seeing it, I'm looking forward to it, but not as a long term game. There is some personal bias in that because I'm more of an off-line/hot seat guy than I am in playing people on Live. The Season stuff is bare bones. 2K is banking on people creating teams and rosters and playing them online.
Graphically I thought it looked a whole lot like 2K5 but with the fake teams. The player ratings aren't "generic"; they are not there at all. There are no ratings outside of the skills. I actually like the skill idea a lot. Anything is better than the 100 point system that EA uses. I despise that and I always have. I've never understood it. I like how Montana has the Cadence skill and how Jerry Rice runs fantastic routes. I guess Madden's new Weapon system is similar, but there are a lot more skills than weapons.
I actually love the team creation stuff. Some of the stadiums look wild (in a good way). The jersey options are great, and it come with a ton of city and nicknames. I think that's all slick. It just doesn't look complete yet. I dunno how a franchise mode with this design could work to be honest. Anthony says they are already working on expanding the solo mode stuff, so who knows.
I go the other way- I play most of my games online, and when I play offline, I tend to play exhibition games. As a result, I'm guessing that I'll be pretty happy with APF. If nothing else, it seems like the different game engine makes this a much better complement to Madden than NCAA, regardless of the quality of NCAA's dynasty options. (Because in the end, I'd rather be playing football than recruiting/signing free agents/doing any of that stuff.)
Bill_Abner wrote:After seeing it, I'm looking forward to it, but not as a long term game. There is some personal bias in that because I'm more of an off-line/hot seat guy than I am in playing people on Live. The Season stuff is bare bones. 2K is banking on people creating teams and rosters and playing them online.
Graphically I thought it looked a whole lot like 2K5 but with the fake teams. The player ratings aren't "generic"; they are not there at all. There are no ratings outside of the skills. I actually like the skill idea a lot. Anything is better than the 100 point system that EA uses. I despise that and I always have. I've never understood it. I like how Montana has the Cadence skill and how Jerry Rice runs fantastic routes. I guess Madden's new Weapon system is similar, but there are a lot more skills than weapons.
I actually love the team creation stuff. Some of the stadiums look wild (in a good way). The jersey options are great, and it come with a ton of city and nicknames. I think that's all slick. It just doesn't look complete yet. I dunno how a franchise mode with this design could work to be honest. Anthony says they are already working on expanding the solo mode stuff, so who knows.
This even puts this game further away from a purchase at $60 for me, thanks.
I'm not a LIVE player either, strictly solo when it comes to gaming.
I might talk my neighbor into getting it and if it's that much fun multi-player, we can play it at his house.
When this game was announced, I was excited as all get out. Now, hearing this game caters to the online experience, I'm sitting this one out. I simply don't have the time and patience to play strictly online (one of the main reasons I went with the PS3).
It looks like all of Dave Thomas talk about telling the community off about the editing might come back and bite them in the ass.
Not have a franchise mode or season mode wasn't going to hurt this game the first time out. If the community was allowed to create replay seasons or as many greats as possible that would have given a lot of legs to this game.
Online play is still a subsection of the market. And I don't think it will ever replace single player gaming. Personally when sports games focus on online play and forget key modes for the single player modes the game doesn't do well. I also question how smart 2k was with this release.
I have no idea how you pull off a franchise mode with legends. Do you do a WE style franchise system where they are regens? In my opinion what has hurt this game more is 2k's stubborness not to allow the community to edit its game. That would have given the game legs in sales.
[url=http://sensiblecoasters.wordpress.com/][b]Sensible Coasters - A critique of sports games, reviews, gaming sites and news. Questionably Proofread![/b][/url]
2K is not allowed to let the community have free reign and edits its game. The licensing prevents it.
This is why the team editor is made like it is. If it was totally custom-oriented, people would just "make" the real NFL teams and that's not allowed, 3rd party or not. If 2K even supplies the tools..they're in violation.
2K is putting its faith into 2 things:
Its established fan base -- and the Legends. If people want to play with Joe Montana, even if he's playing for the Birmingham Thunderbirds, then the game will sell well enough to survive. If not, it won't.
Bill_Abner wrote:2K is not allowed to let the community have free reign and edits its game. The licensing prevents it.
This is why the team editor is made like it is. If it was totally custom-oriented, people would just "make" the real NFL teams and that's not allowed, 3rd party or not. If 2K even supplies the tools..they're in violation.
2K is putting its faith into 2 things:
Its established fan base -- and the Legends. If people want to play with Joe Montana, even if he's playing for the Birmingham Thunderbirds, then the game will sell well enough to survive. If not, it won't.
I don't want to make this come off wrong...Why can't 2k make a game like the old Bill Walsh College Football and call every team by their city?? What is illegal about that? The Patriots would be called the Foxboro Minutemen for example. We just made a generic team name that has someone that wears number 12 that plays QB.
Bill_Abner wrote:2K is not allowed to let the community have free reign and edits its game. The licensing prevents it.
This is why the team editor is made like it is. If it was totally custom-oriented, people would just "make" the real NFL teams and that's not allowed, 3rd party or not. If 2K even supplies the tools..they're in violation.
2K is putting its faith into 2 things:
Its established fan base -- and the Legends. If people want to play with Joe Montana, even if he's playing for the Birmingham Thunderbirds, then the game will sell well enough to survive. If not, it won't.
I don't want to make this come off wrong...Why can't 2k make a game like the old Bill Walsh College Football and call every team by their city?? What is illegal about that? The Patriots would be called the Foxboro Minutemen for example. We just made a generic team name that has someone that wears number 12 that plays QB.
Tell me how that violates the contract?
If it is close enough to be clearly imitating the NFL, it's entirely possible that 2K could be sued. It would also put an end to any chance the company might have to bid on the license when the original deal with EA expires.
My point is this. The licensing shouldn't prevent us from creating Peyton Manning.
I understand not allowing us to create the NFL. There's a difference between free reign and allowing the community to enhance the product.
What we've learned is that you can create Peyton Manning but he can only have 3 attributes not 5 as some legends have.
Even the piss poor season mode would have had incredible legs if even with the 11 player draft method, we could mix legends with CAPs of today's stars even on generic teams.
Basically 2k has done a lot wrong with this game. Here's my point everyone is talking as if the exclusive license will be available for bid when the time is up and 2k will once again be allowed to use the license. There's no garuntee that is going to happen. On top of that if 2k doesn't sell well there might not be another APF. And why would the NFL want to sell its license to a game that isn't doing well. The NFL wants exposure as well.
I think 2ks launch of this game is slightly better than the PS3 fiasco. From the producer telling the community to get over the fact that the CAP module is limited to a very shallow feature set, APF has not lit the world on fire. Most of the hype if from gamers that don't want to play Madden or loved NFL 2k5.
I'm going to go back to WE for a minute. That game had a very limited feature set but great gameplay with a community that used its editor to create a lifelife team/league system. Konami has had the number one license in the world and that's the EPL which EA Sports holds. FIFA which has had all of the licenses had WE cut drastically into its market share. WE if you remember wasn't even going to be release in the US but a market sprung mostly due to word-of-mouth advertising on the game. This in my opinion was due to the fact that the community had a game with great gameplay but was also allowed to modify the game to make up for the shortcomings.
2k on the other hand has not approached APF in the same way. They are hoping to sell enough to make this profitable and hope the NFL will let them have the license in a few years. I think that's a recipe for disaster. The only way the NFL would look at not renewing the exclusive license is if APF was rivalling Madden in sales.
I'm not saying you need a full blown NFL creator but geez take the training wheels of the game let the community create legends and star players. Limit the game in terms of not allowing a full NFL type system and that would be a game that steals a significant portion of EA's market share.
[url=http://sensiblecoasters.wordpress.com/][b]Sensible Coasters - A critique of sports games, reviews, gaming sites and news. Questionably Proofread![/b][/url]
The NFL is like Disney. If it looks like Mickey Mouse and it sounds like Mickey Mouse and the local Elementary school is using Mickey without paying royalties, then it is time to send in the team of lawyers to tear them apart.
The NFL has created its own reality. It is becoming like the Masters. If "they" don't like the way you announce their games, talk about their product, then you will be out. They also have total control of their product. Pretty soon the only way to see Sunday highlights will be to get the NFL Network. It is the ultimate corporate sport.
The NCAA is the same way. It is perverse that the NCAA is OK with allowing taunting in NCAA football and March Madness, but the hint of a tournament mode in NCAA Football is a definite no no. And you will never see a late hit penalty in NCAA or Madden. It is not EA, it is the powers that be.
kevinpars wrote:The NFL is like Disney. If it looks like Mickey Mouse and it sounds like Mickey Mouse and the local Elementary school is using Mickey without paying royalties, then it is time to send in the team of lawyers to tear them apart.
kevinpars wrote:The NFL is like Disney. If it looks like Mickey Mouse and it sounds like Mickey Mouse and the local Elementary school is using Mickey without paying royalties, then it is time to send in the team of lawyers to tear them apart.
Did Disney do anything about that Jihad Mouse?
Disney will only go after people that won't kill them or afford attorney fees.
[url=http://sensiblecoasters.wordpress.com/][b]Sensible Coasters - A critique of sports games, reviews, gaming sites and news. Questionably Proofread![/b][/url]
Zlax45 wrote:Tell me how that violates the contract?
It shouldn't. 2K isn't under any contract, EA is. Why can't they include a paint tool for creating logos? I'm not saying they should include premade NFL logos, but what can the NFL do if they give the users a tool to create their own? They'd have to sue Photoshop as well.
I was really hoping for something like Football Pro '99 had in terms of editing. I was sure this would be the game to drag me into the 360/Ps3 world, but I've heard enough that I'm actually ok waiting this one out a bit longer.
Zlax45 wrote:Tell me how that violates the contract?
It shouldn't.
But it does. If All Pro 2K8 allowed a way to get around that license (if 2K supplied the means) and people would show up online playing with the Dallas Cowboys with custom made art that looked just like the real thing--2K would get sued.
Zlax45 wrote:Tell me how that violates the contract?
It shouldn't.
But it does. If All Pro 2K8 allowed a way to get around that license (if 2K supplied the means) and people would show up online playing with the Dallas Cowboys with custom made art that looked just like the real thing--2K would get sued.
So why do the makers of courses on Tiger Woods not get sued? They make courses which are licensed like Augusta and they don't get sued!
But it does. If All Pro 2K8 allowed a way to get around that license (if 2K supplied the means) and people would show up online playing with the Dallas Cowboys with custom made art that looked just like the real thing--2K would get sued.
So why do the makers of courses on Tiger Woods not get sued? They make courses which are licensed like Augusta and they don't get sued!
Sued by whom, exactly? Augusta National? Augusta has a licensing deal with the PGA excluding videogame makers from representing their course? Seeing as how EA Sports has the exclusive deal with the PGA, I find that highly unlikely...and counter-productive.
2K Sports isn't stupid. Do you really think that they would not allow gamers to re-create the real NFL teams if they could? Why wouldn't they? I was told as much during the APF demo. "No custom teams representing NFL teams." Period. It is what it is. I don't like it either, but the exclusive NFL deal with EA prohibits 2K from doing it.
You know guys, it is probably a good idea to have an impressions thread instead of putting them in one thread with different discussions going on. These threads that get tons of posts in them bog down the forum.
Edit: I split the thread and added the impressions to a new impressions thread. Feel free to carry on any discussion from this thread but please use the new thread for impressions.
I am a patient boy.
I wait, I wait, I wait, I wait.
My time is water down a drain.
