Forza 2 Demo is Out

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Thu May 24, 2007 6:19 pm

"you lu'ey lu'ey Bastard." (in monty python holygrail voice.)

RandyM · Post by **RandyM** » Mon May 28, 2007 2:24 pm

How sad is this, I've been allowing Lord of the Rings Online on my PC to suck my life away, and although I downloaded the demo I haven't tried it yet. Sigh - I feel like I've lost my religion.

I figure I'll regain it with the full retail version though so I will definitely buy it, and then we'll see

Randy

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Mon May 28, 2007 3:20 pm

A couple of Forza 2 reviews have surfaced...
http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox-360/13 ... port-2/p1/

http://www.360-gamer.com/review.asp?id=985

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue May 29, 2007 10:22 am

Happens every time. Some racing game that I really don't care that much about throughout the development process hits and suddenly I'm excited as all hell. I'll be firing up a room tomorrow for sure...

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Tue May 29, 2007 11:08 am

WOW - Those 2 reviews make this game sound like the stuff Terry's wet dreams are made of

My only concern is that it sounds like a lot of setup tweaking is necessary in this game. Also, neither of those reviews go into the multiplayer aspect of the game. Does anyone know if the host can choose "stock setups" for a race? If that were true, it would make online racing with the DSP crowd much simpler and more enjoyable for me.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue May 29, 2007 11:35 am

I hope so, because I loathe tweaking a setup. Anyone who runs races with me knows that I prefer an IROC-style, "we're all in the same car, let's race" mentality.

I prefer to get beaten by another driver, not another car. It's not exactly realistic, but I'd prefer to spend my time racing, not tinkering with setup values. If they had an auto-crewchief or something, then I'd be all ears. I think that would really sell a game. Go over a series of questions on braking, cornering, and acceleration.

"Too loose when braking for a corner?"
"Too loose when stomping on the throttle?"
"Not enough acceleration?"
"Shaky cornering?"

And have the auto chief adjust the car to the driver's answers.

Either way, any room that I host will have the "default setups" if available (although I highly doubt it since they're touting the feature so much), or at least me running with just defaults until I'm absolutely sure I can't squeeze any more speed out of them.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue May 29, 2007 11:55 am

The over-under on how long it will take for every non-racing moron to find the "money cars" in each class and tune them to a sharp point:

Two days

I hope a healthy crew of DSPers buys this game, for all of your sakes, as I see random racing in this game to be an absolute nightmare, just as it was in Forza. A bunch of Harvey Wallbanger idiots who ram and tune their way to victory in money cars.

Has everyone forgotten how lethal a tuned Honda CRX was in Class D in Forza, for example?

I sure hope Microsoft has done something to eliminate "money cars."

Take care,
PK

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:02 pm

They did (according to them). There's now not only the class slider, but a scale from 1-999 within each class to determine its power within. So those CRX's that put the super engine in would become heavier and harder to stop. You couldn't keep cranking up tires and chassis upgrades without going over a class, since the power-to-weight-to-grip ratio would be through the roof.

I haven't played a lick of it yet, but that's the only way you COULD combat it. Break it down by class, then put every single factor into one big formulat to have a huge rating system within the class. A CRX with a high-acceleration motor should barely be able to leave the start/finish line without spinning the front wheels, and that's how they make it sound, at least.

Granted, I'm guessing there's no way around people doing it, but they seemed adamant that a guy could take a Mini Cooper and upgrade it to supercar status and anywhere in between. The focus is on allowing you a limitless customization table where you can really become attached to your car. They mentioned they'd prefer somebody to actually have an attachment to a couple of vehicles and use them in mutiple classes than they would to find a single dominant vehicle within each. Whether they actually accomplished that or not won't be known for some time, but it was encouraging.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:06 pm

TCrouch wrote:I hope so, because I loathe tweaking a setup. Anyone who runs races with me knows that I prefer an IROC-style, "we're all in the same car, let's race" mentality.

I prefer to get beaten by another driver, not another car. It's not exactly realistic, but I'd prefer to spend my time racing, not tinkering with setup values. If they had an auto-crewchief or something, then I'd be all ears. I think that would really sell a game. Go over a series of questions on braking, cornering, and acceleration.

"Too loose when braking for a corner?"
"Too loose when stomping on the throttle?"
"Not enough acceleration?"
"Shaky cornering?"

And have the auto chief adjust the car to the driver's answers.

Either way, any room that I host will have the "default setups" if available (although I highly doubt it since they're touting the feature so much), or at least me running with just defaults until I'm absolutely sure I can't squeeze any more speed out of them.

BINGO!!! Exactly the reason why I am turned off to most racing games now-a-days (especailly online)!

I was just bitching about this to Zeppo on LIVE the other day. I am passing on Forza simply becasue I have gotten so jaded on the whole uneven filed due to different cars and setups (as well as the whole setup and tuning thing in general which I just don't have the time to invest in anymore). It just never feels fair to me. I know I am definitely not one of the best drivers by any means in theses games, but even when being somewhat competative in the middle of the pack, I always wonder if I choose the right car or if my opponents cars/setups were just better and not really their driving.

In some cases, it really obvious when you finally catch someone by nailing your corners only to get blown out in a straight away again, even with the same class cars.

The problem is that I don't really see any way to avoid this unless everyone chooses the exact same car which gets boring too. I wish there was a "performance EQ leveler" like the old 2K sports games had where it evens out all the stats and just goes by the gamers ability alone.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:18 pm

That's good to hear, Terry. Hopefully the goal will be achieved, for all of you cats' sake.

Now, if Microsoft could only program some sort of "cornholer filter" into the game for racing against randoms ...

Take care,
PK

Fshguy · Post by **Fshguy** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:37 pm

Any chance we'll see this anywhere today? Every hour counts for me at this point. My wife is due on Thursday!

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Tue May 29, 2007 1:26 pm

Great review - the tweaking sounds insane. Wish I knew something about cars...

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue May 29, 2007 2:22 pm

The problem with cornholing someone in Forza is the game itself. In the demo, I have a hell of a time not hitting the car in-front of me because of the accordian affect the AI has in this game. So if you play a lot with the AI you just accept that there's doing to be some paint sharing and move on.

Second, braking is so poorly handled in this game and it's impossible at times to steer out of the impending wreck.

Forza is a rental for me.

Here's a question for the racing gurus out there. How realistic is this driving model?

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Tue May 29, 2007 2:28 pm

JRod wrote: Here's a question for the racing gurus out there. How realistic is this driving model?

It would be unfair to judge the physics model from the demo, I think, since the demo is in some kind of arcade mode.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Tue May 29, 2007 4:07 pm

Zeppo wrote: It would be unfair to judge the physics model from the demo, I think, since the demo is in some kind of arcade mode.

I hope not! The demo, with all the assists turned off is plenty challenging for me. A little tougher than TOCA 2 I would say. Very hard to get your car straight again once you lose it. There is a premium on keeping 4 tires on the ashpalt and moving in the right direction.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue May 29, 2007 7:39 pm

So much I've read about the game mentions the tire physics and from the four-wheel drifts and out-of-control slides I've experienced in the demo, I can understand why. The slides seem completely devoid of the center-swivel McRae issues and the tires don't magically hook up and send you rocketing away, that's one of the things that keeps this game in the possible purchase category for me, despite my hatred of the braking model.

So when tomorrow's impressions thread hits, you can bet my first question is going to be about the braking and the ability to do a global adjustment.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:00 pm

Man, I don't get you guys who actually like the Microsoft Wheel...it is horribly unstable and the force feedback is just annoying because it doesn't feel all that realistic. I tried it with the Forza2 Demo, Dirt and PGR3 and I am less than impressed. I'm much happier with my Logitech Momo on the PC...this one just doesn't come close. Guess I'm rocking the gamepad for these games.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:09 pm

It doesn't come close to comparing to a solid PC wheel like my Logitech G25 or my TSW. It does, however, have more solid construction than any "console" wheel before it outside of the Logitech DFP. For XBox, nothing comes close. It's hardly a piece of crap...it doesn't have huge notchiness like the old MOMOs did, even. Its a solid wheel.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:17 pm

TCrouch wrote:It doesn't come close to comparing to a solid PC wheel like my Logitech G25 or my TSW. It does, however, have more solid construction than any "console" wheel before it outside of the Logitech DFP. For XBox, nothing comes close. It's hardly a piece of crap...it doesn't have huge notchiness like the old MOMOs did, even. Its a solid wheel.

I guess my problem is that I'm connecting it to my desk, exactly how my MOMO is...and it only has one connector, rather than 3, so it makes it horribly unstable. I just can't hang with that. I love how my MOMO is very stable/solid. It's too bad they have that closed technology s***, or else it would be outstanding to use PC wheels.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue May 29, 2007 9:40 pm

Indeed. I have it connected to a little kiddie table that's got a very solid base and it's tight as can be, so it doesn't really wiggle or anything on me. With regards to force effects and whatnot, I can't really make a judgment yet since there's hardly anything to base it off of. But the way the wheel itself sits only has a couple of spots that actually rest on the edge of the table/desk, as opposed to the entire base of the Logitech wheels. It doesn't really make it any flimsier, but it definitely has a different feel than a mounted Logitech.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Tue May 29, 2007 10:31 pm

TCrouch wrote:I hope so, because I loathe tweaking a setup. Anyone who runs races with me knows that I prefer an IROC-style, "we're all in the same car, let's race" mentality.

I prefer to get beaten by another driver, not another car. It's not exactly realistic, but I'd prefer to spend my time racing, not tinkering with setup values. If they had an auto-crewchief or something, then I'd be all ears. I think that would really sell a game. Go over a series of questions on braking, cornering, and acceleration.

"Too loose when braking for a corner?"
"Too loose when stomping on the throttle?"
"Not enough acceleration?"
"Shaky cornering?"

And have the auto chief adjust the car to the driver's answers.

Either way, any room that I host will have the "default setups" if available (although I highly doubt it since they're touting the feature so much), or at least me running with just defaults until I'm absolutely sure I can't squeeze any more speed out of them.

I agree 100%. I don't have the time to tinker, but I was plenty fast in the leagues I ran in for the original Forza without having to mess with setups. Why? Because they let you download setups (and ghosts) of the top racers on the XBL leaderboards. Just give it a week or two and we'll easily see which cars perform best for each track and class, and then go and download 3 or 4 setups from the top times posted. No tinkering, no problems.

The only issue I ran into with that in Forza, was if the setup I downloaded didn't have the exact upgrades that I had on my car... then certain parts of their setup wouldn't cross over and would be default. Usually, it was something simple like a spoiler adjustment (where they may have used a different brand of spoiler) but the main guts of the setup like gearing, camber/caster, ride height, braking ratios, etc.... were all exactly the same.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:14 am

jondiehl wrote:
TCrouch wrote:I hope so, because I loathe tweaking a setup. Anyone who runs races with me knows that I prefer an IROC-style, "we're all in the same car, let's race" mentality.

I prefer to get beaten by another driver, not another car. It's not exactly realistic, but I'd prefer to spend my time racing, not tinkering with setup values. If they had an auto-crewchief or something, then I'd be all ears. I think that would really sell a game. Go over a series of questions on braking, cornering, and acceleration.

"Too loose when braking for a corner?"
"Too loose when stomping on the throttle?"
"Not enough acceleration?"
"Shaky cornering?"

And have the auto chief adjust the car to the driver's answers.

Either way, any room that I host will have the "default setups" if available (although I highly doubt it since they're touting the feature so much), or at least me running with just defaults until I'm absolutely sure I can't squeeze any more speed out of them.
I agree 100%. I don't have the time to tinker, but I was plenty fast in the leagues I ran in for the original Forza without having to mess with setups. Why? Because they let you download setups (and ghosts) of the top racers on the XBL leaderboards. Just give it a week or two and we'll easily see which cars perform best for each track and class, and then go and download 3 or 4 setups from the top times posted. No tinkering, no problems.

The only issue I ran into with that in Forza, was if the setup I downloaded didn't have the exact upgrades that I had on my car... then certain parts of their setup wouldn't cross over and would be default. Usually, it was something simple like a spoiler adjustment (where they may have used a different brand of spoiler) but the main guts of the setup like gearing, camber/caster, ride height, braking ratios, etc.... were all exactly the same.

Yeah, I had the orig Forza and was just told today that you could dload other dudes setups!!!!! I have no idea how I missed this. That changes everything. Still in shock.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:28 am

greggsand wrote: Yeah, I had the orig Forza and was just told today that you could dload other dudes setups!!!!! I have no idea how I missed this. That changes everything. Still in shock.

Wow. That's a big thing to miss, made a huge difference in my fun factor, let me tell you.

I'm guessing that you never downloaded someone's ghost lap off of the Live scoreboards either? Probably not, otherwise you would have noticed right below where you do that, the option to also download their setup when you're grabbing their ghost.

Being able to ghost race the top times on Live, along with grabbing the exact setup for that ghost, made it much for fun for me.... let someone else do all of the hard work tinkering around with finding the right car and setups, I just want to burn some laps. The only thing that was left to question in the original was the upgrades being used, but with trial and error you'd eventually get it exactly the same as the ghost since it always would tell you when loading a setup that some upgrades might be different (if they were).

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Wed May 30, 2007 5:15 pm

pk500 wrote:That's good to hear, Terry. Hopefully the goal will be achieved, for all of you cats' sake.

Now, if Microsoft could only program some sort of "cornholer filter" into the game for racing against randoms ...

Take care,
PK

Paul, I can't believe you are not going to be in on all this Forza / Dirt
goodness??? We stand on the verge of XBL driving game "sublime-ness"......or something. I just doesn't seem right without you, dude.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed May 30, 2007 5:23 pm

JackB1 wrote:
pk500 wrote:That's good to hear, Terry. Hopefully the goal will be achieved, for all of you cats' sake.

Now, if Microsoft could only program some sort of "cornholer filter" into the game for racing against randoms ...

Take care,
PK
Paul, I can't believe you are not going to be in on all this Forza / Dirt
goodness??? We stand on the verge of XBL driving game "sublime-ness"......or something. I just doesn't seem right without you, dude.

Jack:

I hope you dudes have a lot of fun. I thought DIRT would be the game that would lure me toward a 360, but I'm feeling zero pull. I think I'm finally weaned from consoles for good. I'm still having a ton of fun with NR 2003, and I'm going to put rFactor and Richard Burns Rally on my new PC this week.

Have fun with Forza 2 and DIRT!

Take care,
PK