All-Pro Football 2k8

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:28 pm

I'm pumped. I've already decided to bail on Madden after this snooze-fest. Viva 2k...

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:11 pm

Wow, this is great news. I love Madden 07 for the 360 and it plays a real good game of football but it is a cryin shame that there is still no gang tackling in the game. Not to mention the presentation still doesn't come close to 2k5.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:30 am

wco81 wrote:I don't think merely claiming to have better gameplay than Madden is going to get them far. They have to demonstrate that as well as enable what the NFL and NFLPA might consider violations of their intellectual property.

I doubt they will do that. No question it would trigger a lawsuit, and the legal costs alone would not make it worth it.

Definitely the most interesting sports gaming news we've had in a while.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:44 pm

spooky157 wrote:Wow, this is great news. I love Madden 07 for the 360 and it plays a real good game of football but it is a cryin shame that there is still no gang tackling in the game. Not to mention the presentation still doesn't come close to 2k5.

Oh don't worry...gang tackling is on the feature list next year. As is being able to make it rain and snow during your game.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:03 pm

http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?cook ... _id=0209eb

This is off the EB Games site, obviously not offical. But they show and 8/20 release and at $59.99.

I hope for 2K's sake, neither of those is true.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:30 pm

Danimal wrote:
I hope for 2K's sake, neither of those is true.

I hope its not true for my sake...

$59?...If 2ks any good it will force me not to buy Madden as I already own 2007 and Im not doing another $59 for a roster update.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:50 pm

Considering they haven't said word about the game, other than "we're making a game", I would put too much faith in EB's prices.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:20 pm

F Madden. I'll be getting 2K8 no doubt.

eman · Post by **eman** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:01 pm

I loved certain aspects of 2k5 but the defensive backfield AI sucked. I also wished the passing game was tighter. Oh yeah, the button tapping bugged me too.

2k Sports will have to clean up the AI and get very creative with the franchise mode for me to consider buying it over Madden. Thing is, I believe they can do it. There is SO much that current football games lack. I've longed for a solid football game that offers some RP elements... Lets face it, once you've completed 2 or 3 seasons in Madden 07 the game gets boring as s***. I want something that grabs my attention for 10 or 15 seasons...

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:50 pm

Madden is a total joke of a football game.

I'm excited about the possibility of player specific animations for 2K8 considering the job they did with it in NBA 2K7. LT's running style and no frill touchdown celebrations, Peyton's unique play calling at the line of scrimmage, Grossman throwing interceptions every other play...

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:01 pm

macsomjrr wrote:Madden is a total joke of a football game.

I'm excited about the possibility of player specific animations for 2K8 considering the job they did with it in NBA 2K7. LT's running style and no frill touchdown celebrations, Peyton's unique play calling at the line of scrimmage, Grossman throwing interceptions every other play...

Madden does have Manning at the line of scrimmage.

Wilk5280 · Post by **Wilk5280** » Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:01 pm

macsomjrr wrote:Madden is a total joke of a football game.

I'm excited about the possibility of player specific animations for 2K8 considering the job they did with it in NBA 2K7. LT's running style and no frill touchdown celebrations, Peyton's unique play calling at the line of scrimmage, Grossman throwing interceptions every other play...

You do realize that not one of those players you just mentioned will be in APF 2K8, right?

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:29 pm

PRBoom wrote:
You do realize that not one of those players you just mentioned will be in APF 2K8, right?

Yeah I got a little bit too excited:) I just meant that Manning flailing his arms around and yelling would actually look like Manning not every other quarterback but regardless non of the current players will be in the game anyway. I've heard rumors of Barry Sanders and Joe Montana so I'm hoping to see Barry's unique switchback stop on a dime running technique and Montana's wobbly passes:)

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:05 pm

Here's an intriguing possibility for this game:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/772/772585p3.html

Last February, NaturalMotion announced a partnership deal with Rockstar Games, Inc., the publishing label responsible for Grand Theft Auto. Rockstar Games is also in the same family of companies as 2K Sports. When pressed about future projects using NaturalMotion's animation technology, one of the NaturalMotion employees at GDC brought up the deal they have with Rockstar now. I commented that he must be talking about Grand Theft Auto IV, and he said no, not exactly. He mentioned the fact that 2K Sports is in the same family of companies as Rockstar, pointed out the football characters used in the animation demos, and the fact that their booth had young guys suited-up in football gear. I mentioned that he must be talking about 2K's rumored All-Pro football game that's been tightly under wraps. That's when he stopped talking.

So not only is Rockstar using the technology, but 2K Sports probably is too. Actually, 2K Sports has gone on record as saying they're looking into using NaturalMotion technology for their sports games. And with all the football allusions that the demos make, that All-Pro football game is starting to look more and more like a reality. It's clear that character motion is taking huge steps forward in the development process, and big players like Rockstar and 2K Sports are looking to make this one element an integral part of their future games.

If this new animation system can incorporate physics, you could end up with more realistic results. For instance, you wouldn't be Truck Sticking defensive tackles with some tailbacks, as is the case in Madden. Nor would DBs be launching themselves high to try to take down 240-pound backs.

Or maybe all 2K Sports will go for in more animation variety.

But they're in a good position to experiment because they have little to lose (although Take Two's financial situation could derail whatever plans they have), coming from zero marketshare for football games in the past couple of years.

They could try to recycle some of the old 2K code base but not having the licenses, they need to find a way to make a splash. One way to do that might be to be more technically and artistically ambitious than the competition.

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:12 pm

But they're in a good position to experiment because they have little to lose (although Take Two's financial situation could derail whatever plans they have), coming from zero marketshare for football games in the past couple of years.

They could try to recycle some of the old 2K code base but not having the licenses, they need to find a way to make a splash. One way to do that might be to be more technically and artistically ambitious than the competition.

I would guess take twos financial outlook is pretty good considering the success their other franchises seem to be having. A physics system put into a football game, hell, any sports game that effects player movement during contact considering weight and momentum of the players involved would be incredible. I wonder if we'll be seeing this soon...

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:36 pm

http://2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115927

Game Informer did a first look at the game. The teams will not be modeled on the NFL in any way, users won't have the ability to edit teams or players to create an NFL-style game, and there won't be any franchise mode.

I understand that VC probably wants to give the NFL a wide berth right now and that they are creating the game engine in the hopes of being able to jump back in when the exclusive deal expires (a long shot, I suspect, as EA will be more than happy to re-up). That said, it's hard to say who VC's target audience is with this release.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:27 pm

I'll wait and see what they do, but the lack of editing is puzzling. I don't think this game has a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding outside of being a niche title, because of that lack of licensing. But it sounds interesting especially as an online league title.

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:53 pm

seanmac31 wrote:http://2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115927

Game Informer did a first look at the game. The teams will not be modeled on the NFL in any way, users won't have the ability to edit teams or players to create an NFL-style game, and there won't be any franchise mode.

I understand that VC probably wants to give the NFL a wide berth right now and that they are creating the game engine in the hopes of being able to jump back in when the exclusive deal expires (a long shot, I suspect, as EA will be more than happy to re-up). That said, it's hard to say who VC's target audience is with this release.

weak. no editor or creator? or team maker?

forget it.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:46 pm

Brando70 wrote:I'll wait and see what they do, but the lack of editing is puzzling. I don't think this game has a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding outside of being a niche title, because of that lack of licensing. But it sounds interesting especially as an online league title.

Except not that many people will probably keep the title long enough to have a online league.

This game will fail miserable because of the lack of an editor no matter how good the game is. The only way it could succeed is if the game engine is sublime and they allow for users to recreate NFL players on their respective teams. 2k Sports just signed their own death warrent by not including editing capabilities. EA Sports just breathed a sigh of relief because if 2k Sports created a WE football clone, in 2-3 years you might have seen sales that challanged Madden. Now it will be lucky to sell more then NCAA Baseball.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:21 pm

JRod wrote:EA Sports just breathed a sigh of relief because if 2k Sports created a WE football clone, in 2-3 years you might have seen sales that challanged Madden. Now it will be lucky to sell more then NCAA Baseball.

Where are you coming up with this? 2k didn't challenge Madden in the sales department with the full license what makes you think they'd challenge it with editable teams and players?

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:57 pm

OK, I guess no editors for teams or players means 2K Sports plan to bid for licenses when the current EA exclusive deal expires and they don't want to alienate the NFL by making it easy for users to make an NFL game out of this with edits.

So this product would be a way to start development and continue it until the licenses are up for bid.

That better be the plan because a football game with generic or fictional teams and players won't sell in the long term. It will sell to the diehards who remember the old NFL2K games and some refugees of Madden but there won't be the volume.

Unless they go with the $19.95 pricing again.

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:01 pm

The pictures shown in the preview have made me really happy with the direction that they are going. It seems like the NFL license is actually a little bit restricting in terms of what can be done in a football game. Things like players actually speaking to each other, nasty on field injuries that actually take place in real time and not after the fact. The stadiums look INCREDIBLE and I can't wait to see some of the touchdown celebrations and all that. I hope that the NFL takes note and teams start to try incorporating clever designs like this into real-life stadiums (Tampa Bay has a pirate boat right?) All this on top of the great 2K game play is gonna make this a must-own for football fans.

Calling all DSP'ers! AP2K8 league starting soon! (j/k)

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:28 pm

wco81 wrote:OK, I guess no editors for teams or players means 2K Sports plan to bid for licenses when the current EA exclusive deal expires and they don't want to alienate the NFL by making it easy for users to make an NFL game out of this with edits.

So this product would be a way to start development and continue it until the licenses are up for bid.

That better be the plan because a football game with generic or fictional teams and players won't sell in the long term. It will sell to the diehards who remember the old NFL2K games and some refugees of Madden but there won't be the volume.

Unless they go with the $19.95 pricing again.

I took it the same way- VC is holding out hope that the NFL drops the exclusive licensing agreement and they don't want to do anything to antagonize the league. If EA and the NFL re-up their deal when it expires (and sadly, I suspect that is exactly what will happen), then perhaps VC will go the Winning Eleven route. But for now, the game is a placeholder, something that will allow them to build a game engine and have things ready to go for NFL 2K10.

I'll certainly get the game on the strength of the 2K track record. I'm also genuinely curious to see what sort of ideas they can come up with. The stadiums do indeed look great, and the idea of creating different teams with different strengths for online play has some appeal.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:37 pm

OK, here are some gameplay ideas to set this game apart from Madden despite the lack of licenses.

I never got into the first-person football of NFL2K5 or the Superstar mode of Madden for the X360 or PS3.

However, in a next-gen football game, it would be cool to see more than one playable gameplay camera and the ability to switch among them on the fly.

Specifically, it would be nice to have fixed cameras for the defensive backfield, the line and the linebacking and you'd switch to better control your defender for instance.

In online games, the camera for each gamer would be unique, so that the player on offense would have the usual vertical view looking downfield. But the player on defense could be using the same view or a reverse view looking upfield. This would be like in a baseball game, the outfielder looking toward home plate rather than tracking the ball from the camera behind home plate.

The view wouldn't have to be vertical either. A better camera angle on the defensive backfield would be good, so that the safety would be looking at everything developing in front of him and would be playing the ball better. It would make positioning before the pass is released more crucial, rather than depending on the defensive AI to have DBs in the right spots.

Another thing which wasn't done in the last generation would be multiplayer online games. That is, more than 2 human players. I'm not taking about 2 or more human players on each console either. I'm taking about say 4, 5 or 6 consoles connected for a single online game, with maybe up to 6 humans on each side. Then you can voice chat with just your teammates or to the opponents or everyone.

EA isn't going to push into these directions. So it might be a good idea for 2K Sports to explore these kinds of ideas or other ideas EA is shying away from.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:57 pm

Why no franchise now that is what gets me!!!