The Boston Red Sox are good...good enough to poop on!

seanmac · Post by **seanmac** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:34 pm

Thank you, George, for bringing misery to Red Sox nation once again.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:56 am

And thanks to teams like the Marlins, Angels, and Diamondbacks for bringing misery to the Yankee$.

seanmac · Post by **seanmac** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:53 am

It´s okay- we can´t win every year. Three titles and six appearances a decade will suffice...but the yearly humiliation of Boston is mandatory.

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:07 am

Can we fu%#king please get a salary cap in baseball?!?
 
 So let me see if I understand this. The Yankees decide they really need A-Rod, even though they already have Jeter? They even got A-Rod to agree to move to 3rd base?
 
 What´s that, you say? The Yankees paid 222 million dollars for A-Rod?
 
 And this is good for baseball how? (rolls eyes) [ This message was edited by: Murph on 14-02-2004 23:08 ]

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:27 am

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2004-02-14 19:34, seanmac wrote:
 Thank you, George, for bringing misery to Red Sox nation once again.
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 And an aura of suckiness to the game of baseball once game.
 
 No matter, even swapping Arod´s numbers with Soriano´s, the Yanks´ offense still would not have been nearly as good as Boston´s last year. And I´ll take Boston´s pitching over NY´s anyday.
 
 Like Florida did last year, Boston has already proved that they can play as a team and have success without having a payroll over 200 million, we´ll see how all of the egos on NY gel together.

seanmac · Post by **seanmac** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 5:47 am

Ah yes, the ESPN crew was fawning all over themselves with how great it would be for baseball to get the best player onto a contending team when A-Rod was going to Boston. Now the first question asked on ESPNews is, "Is this bad for baseball?" Whatever. (As skewed as the playing field may be in the MLB, at least the league isn´t fraudulent enough to change the rules midseason in an attempt to bail out their star franchise...seven game opening series, anyone?)
 
 As for preferring the Boston pitching staff or the Boston lineup, that´s more or less what Red Sox fans come out with every winter. I´ll worry about it the next time I see the Red Sox with a three game lead with five to play. And no, that´s not with five to play in May.

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:01 am

Oh yeah, ESPN should show equal enthusiasm for the chances that a team could win a championship for the first time since 2000 that they showed for a team that hasn´t won since 1918.
 
 If the Yankees win the series, the story will be about the off season trades and free agent signings. If Boston or Chicago wins the series, the story will be about decades of futility ending in a victory. As a reporter, which story would you rather cover??

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:06 am

I hope a small market team wins it all. That would be the best thing to happen for MLB.
 
 I agree with Murph that baseball needs a salary cap.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:39 am

I´m with Murph. Every time I start getting really excited about baseball coming, a story like this throws water on the fire.
 
 The baseball gods should do the following:
 
 1) Permanently sew Pete Rose´ mouth shut and banish him to Mars. Keep him the hell away from baseball AND the hall!
 
 2) Institue a salary cap of some kind. I don´t mind of the Yakees can spend more than the Brewers, but when the gap is larger than Rosie O´Donnels mouth we have a problem. I´d say some type of lower and upper limit like $35 - $100. It would forcve teams like the Brewers to at least TRY, and would prevent teams like the Yankees and Red Sox getting into a never ending arms race.
 
 3) COme up with a formula to adjust stats over the last 10 years to account for all the steriods. Something like Bonds´ 73 homers is equal to 53 dope-free Aaron homers. The recons are tainted, and I want them purified.
 
 -Matt

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:01 pm

No offense to the Boston residents, but this town needs to get a life! I´m up here this weekend due to a sick wife - she was supposed to be down in Houston this weekend but couldn´t fly so I got to come up and enjoy the freezing temperatures today-Tuesday.
 
 Now when Houston got Clemens, it made the top story in the local news. But you know what? Never would the local news lead with a story about a rival getting a key player. Boston, you really need to get over the "Yankees suck" mentality and play your own game. I´ve never seen fans so consumer with ANOTHER team. And Arod going to the Yanks is hardly deserving of the top local story.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:23 pm

Baseball replacement plan for those sick of the game (can´t count the NBA, as that´s just as much crap as MLB):
 
 APRIL
 -- Motorsports. NASCAR, F1, WRC and IRL in full swing
 -- The Masters
 -- Worldwide domestic soccer league stretch run
 -- Opening of Stanley Cup Playoffs
 -- NFL Draft
 
 MAY
 -- Indianapolis 500
 -- Kentucky Derby
 -- Stanley Cup Playoffs
 -- FA Cup final in soccer
 -- Champions League final in soccer
 -- MLS season opens
 
 JUNE
 -- U.S. Open golf
 -- United States Grand Prix at Indianapolis
 -- Other motorsports in midseason
 -- Stanley Cup Finals
 -- NBA Finals (I guess)
 -- Start of Euro 2004 soccer tournament
 
 JULY
 -- NFL training camps open
 -- Tour de France
 -- Motorsports
 -- British Open golf
 -- MLS at midseason
 -- Wimbledon finals
 -- Euro 2004 soccer finals
 
 AUGUST
 -- College football starts
 -- English Premier League, Bundesliga, Serie A start
 -- Brickyard 400
 -- PGA
 -- Rally Finland
 
 SEPTEMBER
 -- NFL opens
 -- Summer Olympics at Athens
 -- U.S. Open tennis
 -- NASCAR Nextel Cup playoff starts
 -- College football
 
 OCTOBER
 -- NHL, NBA open
 -- College basketball practice starts
 -- College football, NFL
 -- IRL season finale at Texas
 -- F1 season finale
 
 Plenty of good s*** to replace baseball, including a lot I´ve forgotten.
 
 Take care,
 PK [ This message was edited by: pk500 on 15-02-2004 08:24 ]

TheFormerBrett44 · Post by **TheFormerBrett44** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:41 pm

Once again the crybabies start whining because their favorite team refuses to make a commitment to winning. Maybe if your owners put some money into the club instead of lining their pockets you could compete.
 
 If you don´t like it, do what PK says. Watch horse racing and cricket this summer instead of baseball. That way you won´t have to whine about how "unfair" baseball is.
 
 But getting back to the point, like I said on another message board a few months ago, when the Red Sox try to compete with the Yankees they will always finish in 2nd place. The difference is simple, the Red Sox try to beat the Yankees every year while the Yankees strive to win the World Series.
 
 Brett

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:17 pm

This isn´t all about the Yankee´s money. The Yankees are trading a young and very talented player (although a free swinger) to Texas for A-Rod and Texas is picking up a big part of A-Rod´s contract.
 
 If A-Rod was a free agent and the Yankees offered far more money than anyone else, I could understand people complaining. The fact is, the Yankees made a good trade offer for A-Rod, with both teams winning in the deal.
 
 Jason

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:18 pm

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2004-02-15 08:41, TheFormerBrett44 wrote:
 Once again the crybabies start whining because their favorite team refuses to make a commitment to winning. Maybe if your owners put some money into the club instead of lining their pockets you could compete.
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 I agree. It truly is unfortunate that more owners aren´t willing to spend the $100M to $165M it would take to match the Yankees´ payroll. I´m not saying spending money on payroll is the only answer, but there is a strong correlation between payroll expense and wins.
 
 My favorite team is poorly managed and that is the reason they don´t win, but the sad truth is if they sold out every single game at $20 a ticket and everyone bought a $5 beer/soda and $10 worth of food that revenue would be about $80-$100M less than the Yankees PAYROLL!

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:22 pm

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2004-02-15 09:17, Jason wrote:
 This isn´t all about the Yankee´s money. The Yankees are trading a young and very talented player (although a free swinger) to Texas for A-Rod and Texas is picking up a big part of A-Rod´s contract.
 
 If A-Rod was a free agent and the Yankees offered far more money than anyone else, I could understand people complaining. The fact is, the Yankees made a good trade offer for A-Rod, with both teams winning in the deal.
 
 Jason
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 It is about the Yankees money (and the Red Sox for that matter) because there are very few teams in MLB that could even make that trade offer. How many teams could even afford to pay A-Rod´s salary?

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:35 pm

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2004-02-15 09:22, Leebo33 wrote:
 It is about the Yankees money (and the Red Sox for that matter) because there are very few teams in MLB that could even make that trade offer. How many teams could even afford to pay A-Rod´s salary?
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 With the amount of money Texas is supposedly picking up for A-Rod´s contract and with the Yankee´s loss of Soriano´s contract, a lot of teams is baseball could afford the difference to pay A-Rod´s salary.

Post by **Jared** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:38 pm

Why do people think there should be a salary cap? If Steinbrenner has more money because his team is in a better market and draws more fans, why shouldn´t he be able to spend that money to build a great team? Isn´t that the free market at work?

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:20 pm

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2004-02-15 09:38, Jared wrote:
 Why do people think there should be a salary cap? If Steinbrenner has more money because his team is in a better market and draws more fans, why shouldn´t he be able to spend that money to build a great team? Isn´t that the free market at work?</BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 I don´t hate Steinbrenner. He´s only taking advantage of what MLB is allowing him to get away with (a laughable luxury tax not withstanding), but it´s easy to look like a genius when you´re able to spend unlimited amounts of money while most of the other teams can´t.
 
 Let´s see how well George does under the constraints of a salary cap, where everybody´s payrolls are in the same "ball park". [ This message was edited by: Murph on 15-02-2004 10:32 ]

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:45 pm

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2004-02-15 10:20, Murph wrote:
 I don´t hate Steinbrenner. He´s only taking advantage of what MLB is allowing him to get away with (a laughable luxury tax not withstanding), but it´s easy to look like a genius when you´re able to spend unlimited amounts of money while most of the other teams can´t.
 [ This message was edited by: Murph on 15-02-2004 10:32 ]
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 Murph:
 
 You´re really selling the Yankees´ front office short. Brian Cashman is a damn good GM, the Giambi and Hideki Irabu signings notwithstanding, and Torre is an excellent manager.
 
 No question George´s money helps, but the Dodgers and Orioles have spent a lot in the last 10 years and won nothing. The Yanks mate George´s money with one of the best front offices in the game, making success even more of a probability.
 
 It´s not all money.
 
 Take care,
 PK [ This message was edited by: pk500 on 15-02-2004 10:46 ]

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:08 pm

PK:
 
 I completely respect and appreciate the abilities of both Cashman and Torre. They´re both excellent at what they do.
 
 This isn´t about what the Yankees do after they aquire the talent. This is about how they go about aquiring that talent in the first place, because of their seemingly bottomless bank account.
 
 Again, if George can afford it, so be it, but is it really good for baseball to have one team that can and many others that can´t?
 
 I say "many" and not "all" because as it turns out, the Red Sox will actually join the Yankees this year as the only teams to pay a luxury tax. Perhaps a couple of others will too, depending on what happens before the start of the season.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:32 pm

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 On 2004-02-15 09:38, Jared wrote:
 Why do people think there should be a salary cap? If Steinbrenner has more money because his team is in a better market and draws more fans, why shouldn´t he be able to spend that money to build a great team? Isn´t that the free market at work?
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 Baseball is very far from a free market. Just the term "anti-trust exemption" should tell you that. The Yankees wouldn´t do nearly as well in a truly free market. How many teams would end up in NY if the market was truly free?
 
 If there is nothing wrong with the economics in baseball I don´t see why more ambitious people don´t go out and buy small market teams and build them into perennial champions. You would think there would be plenty of "Steinbrenner´s in waiting" if it was just as easy to do it in KC as it is NY. [ This message was edited by: Leebo33 on 15-02-2004 11:41 ]

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 3:59 pm

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD>Quote:<HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><BLOCKQUOTE>
 No question George´s money helps, but the Dodgers and Orioles have spent a lot in the last 10 years and won nothing.
 </BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
 
 True, but even though the Dodgers and Orioles spent a lot during the last 10 years the Yankees still spent a whopping 26% more than the Dodgers and 36% more than the Orioles (per USA Today). The Dodgers were within 10% of the Yankees payroll twice in the past 10 years and in those two years they only lost 10 more regular season games in total. The Orioles fared quite well when they were within 10% of the Yankees´ payroll as they made the playoffs in two of those years (one WC and one Div).

Parker · Post by **Parker** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 4:09 pm

Sorry, but I would hardly put Cashman in the elite category of GMs. He is very good at carrying out orders, but if he was ever alone in a room with a possible FA signing without a boatload of money to offer, I´d much rather have a Beane or Epstein running things. He has good business sense, but just doesn´t have the personality to charm/entice a player for signing a contract when the player could perhaps get a better deal elsewhere. [ This message was edited by: Parker on 15-02-2004 12:11 ]

seanmac · Post by **seanmac** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 4:16 pm

Unless the salary cap was a hard cap, it wouldn´t make a whole lot of difference, as players would take less to play for the Yankees, just as Gary Payton and Karl Malone took less to play for the Lakers. The Yankees don´t generally overspend for players- they are just able to make competitive offers for more players at any given moment than other teams. I mean, it was Tom Hicks and not the Yankees who were responsible for the ludicrous Rodriguez contract, so the blame shouldn´t really fall on them (or Boston, had they acquired A-Rod) in this instance.
 
 Anyway, MLB is not unlike the Premiere League- there are only a couple of teams that are realistically in contention every year (and there are more in baseball than in EPL), and there are a second ring of teams that live simply to put together runs like Oakland or Minnesota or Florida did last year. It´s the nature of the beast, and it always has been.
 
 But this isn´t about baseball as a whole. This is about the Yankees and the Red Sox. (And whoever brought up the thing about ESPN pumping the team that hasn´t won since 1918 is absolutely wrong, btw- ESPN pumps up the Red Sox because they have a bunch of Red Sox fans for their upper level columnists and it skews their coverage.)

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 4:26 pm

the mlb trade ai needs work.