College Hoops 2k7

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:39 am

I cranked all the fouls all the way up to 100 in my last game v. CPU, and still didn't have a bonus situation going into the end of the game (12 minute halves). The only one that seemed to get out of whack was the over the back foul, so I set the 'off the ball fouls' back down to 85 in the middle of the game. I don't think I saw another one called the whole game.

I think for online play, I'll have to set them all to 100 as well, with off the ball fouls at 85 or 90. There just aren't enough fouls.

warnerwlf98 · Post by **warnerwlf98** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:53 am

Zeppo wrote:I cranked all the fouls all the way up to 100 in my last game v. CPU, and still didn't have a bonus situation going into the end of the game (12 minute halves). The only one that seemed to get out of whack was the over the back foul, so I set the 'off the ball fouls' back down to 85 in the middle of the game. I don't think I saw another one called the whole game.

I think for online play, I'll have to set them all to 100 as well, with off the ball fouls at 85 or 90. There just aren't enough fouls.

For me it's sort of the same as NBA 2K7 . . . the CPU doesn't seem to reach in enough to get more fouls called. I remember I was in the bonus often in 2K4 and 2K5. Maybe it has to do with setting the CPU's steal slider higher with the steal sucess lower.

I'm also going to experiment with how much ratings are altered with the unity slider. It seems that there are humongous ratings changes even when the unity slider is 65.

I agree that I see some clear charges that are called blocking fouls. The continuation thing on fouls is weird . . . it isn't consistent either. I've seen situations where I'm sure they're going to give me the ball on the side (screwed up continuation) when they give me free throws. Hmm . . . . now that I think about it, it probably has to do with how far from the basket you are when the foul gets called - the closer you are, the more likely you'll get free throws.

Wilk5280 · Post by **Wilk5280** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:19 am

Hmm . . . . now that I think about it, it probably has to do with how far from the basket you are when the foul gets called - the closer you are, the more likely you'll get free throws.

That's actually exactly my point. It doesn't seem to matter how close you are to the basket. I could understand side-out if I'm out between the 3 point and Free Throw lines. However, I cannot ignore the fact that when I'm at normal layup depth, get the block call, and finish the layup in the next step it should be and 1. Not "no basket" and side out of bounds.

The whole block / charge foul is just done terribly. There is no other way to describe it.

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:31 pm

Can anyone hook this mac user up with rosters? If so, please IM me. Thank you.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:42 pm

I think you shoulld be playing at least 16 minute halves...especially the way I play

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:42 am

I'm playing 15 minute halves in my legacy mode (12 years with dartmouth). Seem to be getting pretty good results. I'm also having the problem of way too few fouls--like 1-2 per game.

The online game sucks because of some weaknesses in the gameplay: 3 pointers from florida's best 3 point shooter go in too often, and the fast break is too hard to defend (or easy to exploit, depending on your perspective). Control of characters just isn't responsive or precise enough, and it seems impossible to draw a charge.

The simulation engine seems to have a little too much "any given sunday" in it -- Xavier won the 2007 title, and Vanderbilt won in 2008. The scores are also too low even when set to 20 minute halves for simulation. The awards are biased towards centers because (I think) the sim engine doesn't give guards enough assists (so points + rebounds always wins).

Overall, I'm happy with the game, though.

warnerwlf98 · Post by **warnerwlf98** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:58 am

FatPitcher wrote:I'm playing 15 minute halves in my legacy mode (12 years with dartmouth). Seem to be getting pretty good results. I'm also having the problem of way too few fouls--like 1-2 per game.

Control of characters just isn't responsive or precise enough, and it seems impossible to draw a charge.

The simulation engine seems to have a little too much "any given sunday" in it -- Xavier won the 2007 title, and Vanderbilt won in 2008. The scores are also too low even when set to 20 minute halves for simulation. The awards are biased towards centers because (I think) the sim engine doesn't give guards enough assists (so points + rebounds always wins).

Players seem responsive to me . . . it's just that the take charge animation is slow and that blocking fouls are the predominant ones called - this game seems to "refuse" to call charges. It's just one of those things.

Team unity makes it so that the experience on the floor will equalize a lower rated team with a powerhouse - probably a cause for all the upsets because high team unity will shoot up a team's "effective" rating. I should turn unity off for a season and sim it to see what kind of results it produces.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:11 am

warnerwlf98 wrote:
FatPitcher wrote:I'm playing 15 minute halves in my legacy mode (12 years with dartmouth). Seem to be getting pretty good results. I'm also having the problem of way too few fouls--like 1-2 per game.

Control of characters just isn't responsive or precise enough, and it seems impossible to draw a charge.

The simulation engine seems to have a little too much "any given sunday" in it -- Xavier won the 2007 title, and Vanderbilt won in 2008. The scores are also too low even when set to 20 minute halves for simulation. The awards are biased towards centers because (I think) the sim engine doesn't give guards enough assists (so points + rebounds always wins).

Players seem responsive to me . . . it's just that the take charge animation is slow and that blocking fouls are the predominant ones called - this game seems to "refuse" to call charges. It's just one of those things.

Team unity makes it so that the experience on the floor will equalize a lower rated team with a powerhouse - probably a cause for all the upsets because high team unity will shoot up a team's "effective" rating. I should turn unity off for a season and sim it to see what kind of results it produces.

That's an excellent idea; I dunno if Unity impacts simmed games but with it on, simmed results are a bit wonky.

MUTTS · Post by **MUTTS** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:52 am

I played last night with team unity turned off (in the gameplay options--didnt touch the slider). Seemed to give me a more realistic game. There were still scoring runs each way (as there should be) but it didnt get out of hand. I think I ended up losing by 10. I had fouls turned up to between 85-90 and both teams were in the bonus each half. I did see 1 charging foul.

Heres a thought: since most dont play 20 min halves, the option exists under rules to change the number of fouls needed to reach the bonus (ie you could cut it from 7 to 5 and from 10 to 7 or 8 for the double bonus and have players foul out with 4 fouls. Something Ive thought of doing as 16 min halves are equivalent to 4/5 of a game. It then forces you and the AI to manage subs accordingly.

Anyone else turn team unity off?

Tony

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:52 pm

The season results are really starting to look weird. Upsets abound.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:07 pm

I turned Team Unit off the minute I opened the game.

Attention game developers: Intangibles are by definition INTANGIBLE!!! Stop trying to model this voodoo!

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:10 pm

I like the idea, but in no way should unity give you a blanket ratings boost, which appears to be the case. I dunno how playing with your buddies can possibly make you a better shooter.

warnerwlf98 · Post by **warnerwlf98** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:34 pm

Bill_Abner wrote:I like the idea, but in no way should unity give you a blanket ratings boost, which appears to be the case. I dunno how playing with your buddies can possibly make you a better shooter.

I agree about not being able to be a better shooter, but in actuality, the key ratings that change are the offensive and defensive awareness - the other factors don't quite change as much, but that's enough to skew results.

I posted a comment (the second one) at Bill's blog about another experiment.

http://sportsgamer.blogspot.com/2006/12 ... l#comments

Since turning off unity doesn't seem to help, I just turned the unity slider down to zero so that it might have some effect on the sim engine. The results I got for one sim at least show better results. A lot less of no name squads making it and Missouri State was no where to be found.

Moral of the story - If you're simming, put unity on and leave the slider set at 0. If that plays differently than turning unity off completely, I guess game settings can be tweaked for individual games.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:22 pm

I'll do the unity at zero check tonight. I REALLY want to find a way to fix this; I'm getting tired of seeing power teams with .500 records and losing multiple times per year to really, really, bad teams.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:10 pm

anyone using any sliders or does this sucker play well out of the box.

warnerwlf98 · Post by **warnerwlf98** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:12 pm

fsquid wrote:anyone using any sliders or does this sucker play well out of the box.

I look for sliders too, but not many people have posted any. Someone at the 2Ksports forums posted a set, but I haven't tried them out, and there isn't that much discussion about them.

Instead, I've made a few changes.

CPU speed - reduce it so that they won't catch you on a fast break. I've reduced it to 37 like I did last year, but most people would probably leave it higher.

Tendencies - the CPU likes to jack 3s up like no tomorrow, so I've lowered the 3pt tendency. They'll still take lots of 3s if you lower it to 35. If you want the CPU to use more clock, lower the sliders from 50 - if you want the CPU to use less clock, raise them above 50. Clock usage depends on the absolute value of sliders. In the tendency proportions, I'd probably put midrange tendency above drive and close. I'm not sure what I'm using right now.

I've lowered the steal success slider (to 35) for the CPU so that when you poke the ball away from the CPU, they won't instantaneously get it back without you getting a chance to pick it up. It can probably be set to the same number for human too.

Team Unity - I tried posting a thread on this at OS, but no one was interested. I've found that unity makes games between closely rated squads very good and exciting, but games between mismatched squads in ratings not so close. I've found in this case if the CPU gets a lead on you, you can chip away and get close, but never eclipse it. I leave unity on so that having experience on the floor means something, but leave the unity slider very low . . around 10.

Unity primarily affects the offensive and defensive awareness of the players. From fiddling around, maxed out unity of a squad translates into a +6 boost for awareness. At low slider settings other player ratings don't change much (10-30), but at higher slider settings, ratings including shooting ratings can go up by as much as 10.

I hope this helps in setting up some sliders to make for some fun games.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:42 pm

I have only played tournaments. UIC in the Horizon and NC in the NCAA.

I for now am just trying to get the hang of running the offense and seeing what works and what doesnt. I am having ALOT of fun.

Later I will get to the sliders...

A game can be over analyzed.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:55 am

Anyone having weird connectivity problems with this? Jared and I tried starting a game a half-dozen times. We could meet in the lobby, start the game, make tactical changes etc., but it kept d/c us due to "network error" before we got more than a minute or two in. We both remained connected to XBL and were able to chat through a private channel throughout.

Jared and I both had our NAT settings on "open," btw. Any ideas?

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:55 am

I'm just really sitting down to play this for the first time today...anybody else simmed ahead to Selection Sunday? They did a really nice job IMO with all the off the court presentation elements in this game. The Selection Sunday show has been going on for like 10 minutes now...lol. I'm controlling Pitt and even though we finished the regular season as # 5 in the poll, we won the Big East and were a surprise # 1 seed in the region going into the big dance. Clark Kellogg even mentioned that the selection committee will face criticism any time the top 4 teams from the poll aren't the four # 1 seeds. I've been simming up to this point but am going to save it now and take over the user control for the tournament. Pretty cool stuff.

Wilk5280 · Post by **Wilk5280** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:07 pm

Are you guys finding that all of your games are close and that the catch-up logic is just whack?

I've had monster leads in the first half and even halfway through the 2nd half only to lose them. Every game I've won seems to be inside of 6-8 points at best.

I've been blown out, but have yet to really take it to anyone. I came out as the Zags in the preseason NIT and started a game against the CSU Rams on a 27-6 run. I was up 20 halfway through the 2nd half and then the wackyness just started. I was missing break-a-way layups / dunks and the Rammies couldn't miss from anywhere on the floor. I literally had zero effect on what was going on it felt like. No control what-so-ever and it seems to be the norm in every game I've played down the stretch.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:14 pm

PRBoom wrote:Are you guys finding that all of your games are close and that the catch-up logic is just whack?

I've had monster leads in the first half and even halfway through the 2nd half only to lose them. Every game I've won seems to be inside of 6-8 points at best.

I've been blown out, but have yet to really take it to anyone. I came out as the Zags in the preseason NIT and started a game against the CSU Rams on a 27-6 run. I was up 20 halfway through the 2nd half and then the wackyness just started. I was missing break-a-way layups / dunks and the Rammies couldn't miss from anywhere on the floor. I literally had zero effect on what was going on it felt like. No control what-so-ever and it seems to be the norm in every game I've played down the stretch.

I've blown a few patsies out, but only after suffering a few scares. Bill Abner mentioned this on his blog. Team rankings are bunched up a bit too much, so that even the smallest schools tend to hang around with the big boys.

I've found the trick to pouring it on a lesser opponent is to treat every game like it's close almost all the time. Not so much in my sub patterns, but in the tactics and strategy. I keep calling TO's if the CPU is making a run. Keep up the pressure on D even when I'm up etc. This has allowed me to put a couple of 20+ point wins together against some of the weak non-conference teams that comprise the early season schedule.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:29 pm

I just lost with the Citadel by 20 to Charleston Southern. No catch up logic in my game!

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:47 pm

I've had plenty of times when my team just couldn't do anything right (sometimes when I'm up, sometimes when I'm already losing), enough that it feels like it's out of my control. It might just be my imagination, but it seems like calling a time out will help.

I've also gotten 20+ point leads and held them, won by 36 in one game. So it may be more a case of "fall apart" code that's not necessarily triggered by getting a big lead than "catch-up code," which by definition would only happen when one team is winning.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:57 pm

I think there's more parity in college basketball than those of us who root for the major conferences think. KU has struggled against teams they should have handily won (Oral Roberts, Toledo). Same can be said for a lot of major college programs. For that reason, this game might not be to unrealistic.

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:41 am

If you look at last year's top 25, most of them did not lose at all to any teams from weak conferences. It's good that it happens sometimes, but in CH2K7 it happens far too often. You'll typically see a 30-40 point margin of victory in those game in real life, but not in CH.