OT: The NBA 06-07 Season Thread

[ScoopBrady]

Yeah, I guess you're right. I was just thinking of the playoffs last year when he was on they made it to the Finals and when he was off his game nobody really stepped up at all. It's not the same as going down with an injury or being traded though.

[Zeppo]

I don't think the Cavs win 30 games with Lebron out. Same thing with the Suns and Nash and the Heat without D-Wade. There are no three guys that are more important to their teams than them...Carmelo may be included in that group as well. Their teams do not make the playoffs without them.

The same is true with Arenas and the Wizards. No way they make the playoffs the last two years with out Gilbert, and if #0 goes down this year, they won't have much of a chance to make it for a third time in a row.

[lexbur]

Edit: disagree with Kaz re: Cleveland/Lebron. It's a 50 win team with him and a 30 win team w/out him. There's not enough of a supporting cast to get them past the second round of the playoffs in the East.

Don't forget we were up on Detroit 3 games to 2 before blowing game 6 at home, then losing game 7 at Detroit in the second round last year. And I gotta believe this team is gonna be at least slightly better than last year's team, even if the only real improvements are a healthy Larry Hughes all season, a coach who's no longer a rookie, and a seemingly always-improving LeBron.

Folks around here are talking about a championship, I don't know if I'd go that far, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect this team to at least make it to the conference finals.

I guess we'll see. Last night was pretty encouraging, but alot could go wrong over the course of a season, especially in this town.

[ubrakto]

You gotta be kidding... Ben Wallace is one of the greatest defensive players in the history of the NBA. Sticking a bum like Mohammed in for him and saying because he's slightly better on offense (which outside of free throws I don't think he is) that he will even begin to replace Wallace? Mohammed should be charged admission for every game he plays in with his lackadasical effort. Wallace took the heat off of the Pistons' stick-man front line for a long time and they are going to feel the pain this year. Right now if the Pisstons played the LeBrons in a playoff series, the LeBrons would clean their clocks for them.

Alright, I'll grant you I minimized Wallace's defensive value too much in that post. Way, way too much in fact. But to say Mohammed is only slightly better than Wallace on the offensive end is just as understated. Last year in the playoffs it was four on five every trip down the floor. Wallace was an offensive black hole. Not just a poor offensive player. Not just a bad offensive player. He was a disaster whenever he got his hands on the ball. The man misses dunks with regularity for crying out loud. Yes, at his best, his defense absolutley more than made up for it, but his defensive presence is eroding. He was not the same player in the playoffs last year that he has been for so many seasons. The Pistons could see that, which is why they didn't open the vault for a new contract for him.

Anyway, you are right about the issue with the guard play. Last night against the Bucks the Piston guards got lit up and without Wallace there to back them up it was ugly. It was much worse than I would've suspected from the way the pre-season went. If they don't address that it will be a long season.
---Todd

[Kazuya]

You gotta be kidding... Ben Wallace is one of the greatest defensive players in the history of the NBA. Sticking a bum like Mohammed in for him and saying because he's slightly better on offense (which outside of free throws I don't think he is) that he will even begin to replace Wallace? Mohammed should be charged admission for every game he plays in with his lackadasical effort. Wallace took the heat off of the Pistons' stick-man front line for a long time and they are going to feel the pain this year. Right now if the Pisstons played the LeBrons in a playoff series, the LeBrons would clean their clocks for them.

Alright, I'll grant you I minimized Wallace's defensive value too much in that post. Way, way too much in fact. But to say Mohammed is only slightly better than Wallace on the offensive end is just as understated. Last year in the playoffs it was four on five every trip down the floor. Wallace was an offensive black hole. Not just a poor offensive player. Not just a bad offensive player. He was a disaster whenever he got his hands on the ball. The man misses dunks with regularity for crying out loud. Yes, at his best, his defense absolutley more than made up for it, but his defensive presence is eroding. He was not the same player in the playoffs last year that he has been for so many seasons. The Pistons could see that, which is why they didn't open the vault for a new contract for him.

I'm not saying Mohammed is slightly better, I'm saying he's not ANY better. You're talking about two guys with 7.1 and 6.6 career scoring averages... neither of them are any factors at all on offense. Their job is to get the hell out of the way for the scorers. Mohammed can do a bit more with the ball, but Ben easily makes up for it with offensive rebounding putbacks, which you have to put a body on him or he will kill you. Mohammed is not a good offensive player either. He's a bum who will have one 15/15 game, followed by 5 no effort games. I've been watching this guy for years... he's a bum. He had a chance to basically play center for the best team in the league and fill David Robinson's shoes, but Pop got sick of him.

The Pisstons replaced Wallace with nothing. Those stick men aren't going to go and get those boards. Sheed is not going to get those boards... he'd rather shoot threes and threaten to get thrown out of all 82 games under the new "no talkback" rules. Prince will try but he's too weak to get those boards. Looking at highlights from that game last night, Redd was driving the lane like Jordan and Bogut looked like Kareem against the Pisstons interior.

In addition to giving the stick men all of Ben's money, the Pisstons similarly screwed up by giving Sheed money they could have given Okur. They actually put up comparable numbers but Okur is far more dependable. Having said that, I'm sure most Pisstons fans will take some bad times in exchange for the great run they have had.

[SoMisss2000]

oh my! tune in to sports center guys. LeBron just posterized Tim Duncan.

[Kazuya]

Cripes db, you let this get shuffled all the way back to page 5. That can't be allowed to happen again....

The Jizz [sic] are the best team in the league, but they were knocked off by Nellie Ball. Carlos Boozer and Deron Williams are taking turns kicking the entire NBA's ass. The Mavs have reeled off 9 straight after losing the first 4, including punking the crybaby Spurs in their own building again. Yao embarrassed a bitter, crumbling Shaq head to head. The West reigns supreme, and the East (particularly the Atlantic) is an embarrassing train wreck. Michael Redd dialed up 57, and Kevin Martin is the NBA version of Tony Romo in the manner of, "Who *is* this guy and what does he think he's doing?"[/i]

[jLp vAkEr0]

Celtics are horrible. Implode! Implode!

[EZSnappin]

Celtics are horrible. Implode! Implode!

Just get rid of Doc and find a rotation. Going with all twelve guys when you only have a three to four deep bench (I'm being generous), and then playing those 9-12 guys ten minutes a game isn't helping. Doc may be a decent coach as far as teaching, but he handles games like the players are eight year-olds and everyone gets a turn. He doesn't seem to try to match up with the opposing team, or use his bench guys to change the pace. Pierce is a half-court player, and watching Telfair try to run a half-court set must be killing him (it's killing me). Rivers is the only coach I've seen play small ball and slow the tempo. He seems a genuinely good person but my god, enough is enough.

[wco81]

Haven't seen Boozer play much this year but there was a lot of hating when he was injured.

Now he's apparently putting up those numbers consistently.

Jazz-Cleveland should be fun matchups.

[dbdynsty25]

The Suns are finally out of the cellar...and Amare is looking healthy. Still gonna be a fun season. Everyone in this damn town is all up on the Lakers jock again because they are decent. Uggghhhh...so annoying.

[Kruza]

I'm not saying Mohammed is slightly better, I'm saying he's not ANY better. You're talking about two guys with 7.1 and 6.6 career scoring averages... neither of them are any factors at all on offense. Their job is to get the hell out of the way for the scorers. Mohammed can do a bit more with the ball, but Ben easily makes up for it with offensive rebounding putbacks, which you have to put a body on him or he will kill you. Mohammed is not a good offensive player either. He's a bum who will have one 15/15 game, followed by 5 no effort games. I've been watching this guy for years... he's a bum. He had a chance to basically play center for the best team in the league and fill David Robinson's shoes, but Pop got sick of him.

The Pisstons replaced Wallace with nothing. Those stick men aren't going to go and get those boards. Sheed is not going to get those boards... he'd rather shoot threes and threaten to get thrown out of all 82 games under the new "no talkback" rules. Prince will try but he's too weak to get those boards. Looking at highlights from that game last night, Redd was driving the lane like Jordan and Bogut looked like Kareem against the Pisstons interior.

In addition to giving the stick men all of Ben's money, the Pisstons similarly screwed up by giving Sheed money they could have given Okur. They actually put up comparable numbers but Okur is far more dependable. Having said that, I'm sure most Pisstons fans will take some bad times in exchange for the great run they have had.

Um, it seems you had an awful lot to say about the Pistons after one game that you apparently didn't even watch (lol). But after a few weeks do you care to rephrase any of this stuff now? Especially the quotes you had about Sheed and Prince, since what you've said about them is so far from the truth that it's downright hilarious for me to read. And it's fitting how you conveniently forget to mention Dale Davis who's been doing a very solid job replacing what Ben had brought to the team minus the weakside shotblocking. But then again, Ben isn't much of that himself this year either for the Bulls.

Anyway, I'm just curious to see if you would respond and actually try to correct yourself from that first post you made. After all, I was told that everyone deserves a second chance to make things better.

Kruza

[dbdynsty25]

Someone is very sensitive about their beloved Pistons.

[Kazuya]

I'm not saying Mohammed is slightly better, I'm saying he's not ANY better. You're talking about two guys with 7.1 and 6.6 career scoring averages... neither of them are any factors at all on offense. Their job is to get the hell out of the way for the scorers. Mohammed can do a bit more with the ball, but Ben easily makes up for it with offensive rebounding putbacks, which you have to put a body on him or he will kill you. Mohammed is not a good offensive player either. He's a bum who will have one 15/15 game, followed by 5 no effort games. I've been watching this guy for years... he's a bum. He had a chance to basically play center for the best team in the league and fill David Robinson's shoes, but Pop got sick of him.

The Pisstons replaced Wallace with nothing. Those stick men aren't going to go and get those boards. Sheed is not going to get those boards... he'd rather shoot threes and threaten to get thrown out of all 82 games under the new "no talkback" rules. Prince will try but he's too weak to get those boards. Looking at highlights from that game last night, Redd was driving the lane like Jordan and Bogut looked like Kareem against the Pisstons interior.

In addition to giving the stick men all of Ben's money, the Pisstons similarly screwed up by giving Sheed money they could have given Okur. They actually put up comparable numbers but Okur is far more dependable. Having said that, I'm sure most Pisstons fans will take some bad times in exchange for the great run they have had.

Um, it seems you had an awful lot to say about the Pistons after one game that you apparently didn't even watch (lol). But after a few weeks do you care to rephrase any of this stuff now? Especially the quotes you had about Sheed and Prince, since what you've said about them is so far from the truth that it's downright hilarious for me to read. And it's fitting how you conveniently forget to mention Dale Davis who's been doing a very solid job replacing what Ben had brought to the team minus the weakside shotblocking. But then again, Ben isn't much of that himself this year either for the Bulls.

Anyway, I'm just curious to see if you would respond and actually try to correct yourself from that first post you made. After all, I was told that everyone deserves a second chance to make things better.

Kruza

Um, I hate when people on the internet say um. um, um, um....

Nothing I said needs revising (except for one thing which I will get to later), which would be apparent if you were capable of reading English. Who said anything about Dale Davis? I said Nazr would be an inconsistent bum, which he has been. I said they would be weaker in the middle and they have been (defensive and rebounding stats have plummeted like a stone, and defensive FG% is middle of the pack). And when they go up against a decent team in the playoffs (just like so far this year) they will get their clocks cleaned. Nothing has changed. I did NOT say they would fall off the earth and go 30-52. Their backcourt is too talented for that. But they were 1-4 in that stretch against the West, which tells me all I need to know. You're supposed to beat the wimps of the East. Somebody has to win in those games.

The one thing I was wrong about was that Rasheed has actually taken it upon himself to at least try to help down low, and right now his totals for blocks and boards are career highs... not to mention that despite increased attention to technicals, he is STAYING in the game and shooting smart threes. Unfortunately, he's been in the league a long time and his history is pretty clear, so him staying in games and playing that well when he's in them is not likely to last.

[SoMisss2000]

10 straight by the Mavs after starting 0-4. If we continue to get the same production from the #5 spot, the Mavs will be tough to beat.

[Kruza]

Um, I hate when people on the internet say um. um, um, um....

Nothing I said needs revising (except for one thing which I will get to later), which would be apparent if you were capable of reading English. Who said anything about Dale Davis? I said Nazr would be an inconsistent bum, which he has been. I said they would be weaker in the middle and they have been (defensive and rebounding stats have plummeted like a stone, and defensive FG% is middle of the pack). And when they go up against a decent team in the playoffs (just like so far this year) they will get their clocks cleaned. Nothing has changed. I did NOT say they would fall off the earth and go 30-52. Their backcourt is too talented for that. But they were 1-4 in that stretch against the West, which tells me all I need to know. You're supposed to beat the wimps of the East. Somebody has to win in those games.

The one thing I was wrong about was that Rasheed has actually taken it upon himself to at least try to help down low, and right now his totals for blocks and boards are career highs... not to mention that despite increased attention to technicals, he is STAYING in the game and shooting smart threes. Unfortunately, he's been in the league a long time and his history is pretty clear, so him staying in games and playing that well when he's in them is not likely to last.

You said, "The Pistons have replaced Ben with nothing" and "Those stick men aren't going to go and get those boards". Those quotes means you're implying everyone on the team. But I'm telling you Dale Davis has picked up the slack. That's why I said you have been conveniently ignoring what he's doing. But then again... you haven't been watching the Pistons at all so maybe you wouldn't know anything about that. My bad. Then you go out and pick on a 1-4 stretch where Davis wasn't playing any major minutes in the rotation at that time. And that right there tells me what I want to know about your ignorance of the Pistons.

Someone is very sensitive about their beloved Pistons.

Heh, you damn right. If I see some bs posted I know that's wrong about my team, I'm going to call it out.

Kruza

[Kazuya]

You said, "The Pistons have replaced Ben with nothing" and "Those stick men aren't going to go and get those boards". Those quotes means you're implying everyone on the team. But I'm telling you Dale Davis has picked up the slack. That's why I said you have been conveniently ignoring what he's doing. But then again... you haven't been watching the Pistons at all so maybe you wouldn't know anything about that. My bad. Then you go out and pick on a 1-4 stretch where Davis wasn't playing any major minutes in the rotation at that time. And that right there tells me what I want to know about your ignorance of the Pistons.

They replaced him with NOTHING. Dale Davis and Mohammed are nothing. The Pistons are statiscally better with Mohammed OFF the court (he's something like -8) and Davis has barely even played, certainly not enough to proclaim he's any kind of factor at all. But keep falling back on the weak "I watch the games and you don't". I've got League Pass buddy... I see the games. And way to gloss over the 1-4 stretch against the WEST. I didn't know that Dale Davis was getting MVP consideration this year... he's such an integral component, ya know :roll:

Heh, you damn right. If I see some bs posted I know that's wrong about my team, I'm going to call it out.

All I see is a crybaby Pistons fan who hid in the shadows while his team was sucking, then when they beat a bunch of weak East teams pops his head back out. Why don't we hear *your* predictions for what will happen to the Pistons this year, so that you will actually have a right to call somebody out? Or are you going to go back into hiding when the stick men hit the skids?

[wco81]

Well so far, Don Nelson has the Warriors playing an uptempo, entertaining brand of basketball.

Richardson is recovering from knee surgery just before the start of the season and BD is hurt again. But Nelson came in and decisively gave playing time to Monta Ellis and Biedrins and cut it out for Foyle and first-round pick Patrick O'Bryant.

Ellis and Biedrins are putting up some numbers but more importantly, playing with more confidence, probably with encouragement from Nelson who probably gave Ellis more of a green light rather than defer to the vets.

Even got Dunleavy playing more aggressively the past few games. Pietrus has put up consistent numbers too.

Team still lacks of depth inside or ability to defend people like Anthony or some big 4s. But they've beaten the Jazz, Spurs and Mavs.

Team started out well last year too, again with a lot of home games. So by the end of the season, it may be a different story. But if Ellis and Biedrins continues to be productive, team should improve with them.

[jLp vAkEr0]

Celtics are horrible. Implode! Implode!

Just get rid of Doc and find a rotation. Going with all twelve guys when you only have a three to four deep bench (I'm being generous), and then playing those 9-12 guys ten minutes a game isn't helping. Doc may be a decent coach as far as teaching, but he handles games like the players are eight year-olds and everyone gets a turn. He doesn't seem to try to match up with the opposing team, or use his bench guys to change the pace. Pierce is a half-court player, and watching Telfair try to run a half-court set must be killing him (it's killing me). Rivers is the only coach I've seen play small ball and slow the tempo. He seems a genuinely good person but my god, enough is enough.

Wait!!

C's are YOUR Eastern Division leaders with a potent 5-8 record!

[EZSnappin]

Wait!!

C's are YOUR Eastern Division leaders with a potent 5-8 record!

#3 seed baby!

That is beyond pathetic. 35 wins might win the division, but 48 wins might not get you in out West.

Fire Doc anyways. He only has a semblance of a rotation because guys keep getting hurt. Once everyone's healthy were screwed.

[sfz_T-car]

WCO and I are probably the only people who care, but the Warriors are three games over .500 and coming off back-to-back wins vs. Utah and San Antonio, with Baron Davis out of the lineup (again).

Nelson's reclamation project on Andris Biedrins is pretty remarkable. Beans is averaging a double double, generally staying out of foul trouble and is shooting free throws at over 50%. Nellie is allowing him to focus on the things he can do, rather than dwelling on the things he can't. And in other Golden State news, Zarko Cabarkapa hasn't seen any playing time for over a month.

[Kruza]

They replaced him with NOTHING. Dale Davis and Mohammed are nothing. The Pistons are statiscally better with Mohammed OFF the court (he's something like -8) and Davis has barely even played, certainly not enough to proclaim he's any kind of factor at all. But keep falling back on the weak "I watch the games and you don't". I've got League Pass buddy... I see the games. And way to gloss over the 1-4 stretch against the WEST. I didn't know that Dale Davis was getting MVP consideration this year... he's such an integral component, ya know

If you have NBA League Pass you sure as hell don't sound convincing to me that you watched any of the Pistons games with it. Because it has been very noticeable that player rotations have been changed around that started on the homestand after the West coast trip beginning from the loss to the Hornets. It may be shocking to you, but the Pistons season didn't end at Oakland on the West trip.


[/quote]All I see is a crybaby Pistons fan who hid in the shadows while his team was sucking, then when they beat a bunch of weak East teams pops his head back out. Why don't we hear *your* predictions for what will happen to the Pistons this year, so that you will actually have a right to call somebody out? Or are you going to go back into hiding when the stick men hit the skids?[/quote]

Who's crying and who's hiding? I didn't predict anything for the Pistons for the season after winning the championship and I didn't predict anything for the season after getting to a Game 7 loss in the NBA Finals the following year to the Spurs. I didn't say anything early on around this time last year when the Pistons were undefeated and on a 70-win pace either. I didn't gloat when the team started off hot last season and I don't proclaim the team sucks when they didn't this season. Unlike you, I don't make outlandish comments early on a team, whether that team is doing good or bad.

As for predictions, I think San Antonio and Dallas are still a notch better than the Pistons and the Pistons would have to play perfect basketball to beat either of those teams in a playoff series. The Suns and Jazz are strong. The Rockets are good too. But I see no East team that's better than the Pistons. The Magic look very good and will be a big threat if Grant Hill can stay healthy, but that's about it. The Cavs with King James will be a threat. The Heat and Nets will be hanging around, and so will the Pacers. Plus I wouldn't totally rule out the Wizards yet even though they started off slow too. But none of these teams are what I would consider scary. And I was not and still not sold on the Bulls like many of the pundits were before the season started.

And last I checked, the Rockets aren't a "weak East team". They got beat by the Pistons in this current streak too.

Kruza

[wco81]

I was going to bring up the Magic.

They are playing well so far. It seems like they're not as dependent on Hill as they used to be.

Howard is the franchise player and filling up the stat sheet but he's not someone who's going to create a lot of shots for himself, like say Bosh. At least not yet.

So they must be getting other scoring. Even if Hill doesn't go down, he's clearly not the same player he used to be at Detroit.

[Kazuya]

If you have NBA League Pass you sure as hell don't sound convincing to me that you watched any of the Pistons games with it. Because it has been very noticeable that player rotations have been changed around that started on the homestand after the West coast trip beginning from the loss to the Hornets. It may be shocking to you, but the Pistons season didn't end at Oakland on the West trip.

You haven't done any kind of job convincing me you've seen a Pistons game either, and they're your team. They've beat weak teams and lost to good ones... and most importantly, they're in the east. Spin it however you want. However, now that you've basically picked the Pistons for the Finals, I welcome your presence in the thread and look forward to revisiting this as the season progresses. Time will tell and for now I'm sticking with what I said.

[reeche]

This thread needs to be bumped to simply give proper respect to Larry Legend turning 50 today. The baddest white dude to ever play in the NBA.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/index?lpo ... gn_NBA_NBA

I'm a basketball junkie but I don't think it's possible to ever eclipse the 80's for that sport. A true golden age.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULvo7__wwBU