MLB Off-Season Discussion

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:33 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Nope...because now you can kiss him goodbye after his arbitration year...or maybe before. The business side sucks ass.

The Twins are f*cked in a couple years. Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer will all be in the midst of their arb years or free agents; Santana and Joe Nathan's bargain deals will be ending, too.

Oh well, have to enjoy it before one of the big-money clubs plucks them.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:25 am

[quote="Dave"
The Twins are f*cked in a couple years. Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer will all be in the midst of their arb years or free agents; Santana and Joe Nathan's bargain deals will be ending, too.

Oh well, have to enjoy it before one of the big-money clubs plucks them.[/quote]

The key is to trade them while they still have a year or so left on their current contract, the fans won't like it but at least that way you get something for them.

Develop the talent, watch them blossom into stars, then trade them before you lose them to free agency and get nothing in return. It's an endless cycle, us Tribe fans know it well.

Rumors are the Tribe is shopping Jake Westbrook around, only because he's got one year left on his contract. Heck, if a guy like Justin Speier can get $12 million from the Angels, no way will we be able to afford a guy like Westbrook.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:37 pm

Mel Antonen from USA on Morneau: “It wasn’t so much about numbers. It was about all the things Morneau did as far as contributing to a winning team. The correlation between his taking off and the Twins’ starting to win was too much to ignore.”

When the Twins turned their season around in June, coincidentally Morneau and CO (Mauer, Santana) lifted their play and went on to win the division with a 70-33 record.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:25 pm

10spro wrote:Mel Antonen from USA on Morneau: “It wasn’t so much about numbers. It was about all the things Morneau did as far as contributing to a winning team. The correlation between his taking off and the Twins’ starting to win was too much to ignore.”

When the Twins turned their season around in June, coincidentally Morneau and CO (Mauer, Santana) lifted their play and went on to win the division with a 70-33 record.

All that tells me is that he was equally culpable for their mediocre start. Sports writers are so dumb, I honestly think they might have confused Mauer for Morneau and some votes got shuffled around. Yes, it's the *catcher* who led the league in hitting with the insane OBP you meant to vote for, not the first baseman with very good but not great numbers.

In other crazy news, Gary Matthews Jr just got 50 milliion smackers...

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:40 pm

Kazuya wrote:In other crazy news, Gary Matthews Jr just got 50 milliion smackers...

10 mil per year for someone who had ONE, count em, ONE, decent year. 10 mil per year for a guy who hit 19 whole homers and an entire 79 rbis. Man, the Angels are desperate.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:05 pm

Matthews Jr. will make $10M until he's 37 years old. It could be the worst signing in an off-season full of them.

His 2006 season was pretty solid, the low RBI number is because he mostly batted leadoff. But there's a huge question whether last year was a contract year abberation or a sign of genuine improvement at age 31. If you believe in range factors, he's not even a good CF.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:06 pm

When the Twins picked up Hunter's option, I thought they were crazy--after all, I thought they could go pick up someone like Matthews for around $6mil/year.

Way too much stupid money being spent by a handful of squads helping to drive up the costs for everyone.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:35 am

sfz_T-car wrote:If you believe in range factors, he's not even a good CF.

But then again, the only thing people remember about his D is that ridiculous catch he made over the center field wall. That was legit...but for the few games I've seen him play in, he's been nothing special. But then again, I'm a little jaded watching Andruw patrol center 150+ games per year.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:26 pm

Carlos Lee to the 'Stros.

NL Central is gonna be a dogfight in 2007.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2674398

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:23 pm

As much as I agree with Pujols about the MVP coming from a playoff team...why the hell is he complaining? He won the damn World Series. He needs to keep his damn mouth shut.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:33 pm

The funny thing is that the Philles won more games than the Cardinals.

So Pujols is more valuable because his team played in baseball's worst division?

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:29 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Kazuya wrote:In other crazy news, Gary Matthews Jr just got 50 milliion smackers...
10 mil per year for someone who had ONE, count em, ONE, decent year. 10 mil per year for a guy who hit 19 whole homers and an entire 79 rbis. Man, the Angels are desperate.

That is just crazy. How can people who monitor baseball players for a living make a deal like that? I think GMs are stricken with overthinking things, and talk themselves into deals like this. At least with Soriano, you're getting a pretty uncommon combo of slugging and basestealing, even if that contract will likely screw the Cubs at some point. You can find guys like Sarge, Jr. just about anyplace for 1/10 of the price.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:44 pm

Glavine re-signs with the Mets.

Most baseball columnists predict Zito will follow.

I'll take that.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:33 pm

Well, the Brewers just made their big splash: Craig Counsel!!!!

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:35 pm

Dave wrote:The funny thing is that the Philles won more games than the Cardinals.

So Pujols is more valuable because his team played in baseball's worst division?

Pujols is more valuable because he had better numbers than Howard other than hr's and rbi's, played in less games, is better defensively...etc. It goes on and on...not to mention the strikeout difference. Howard K'd close to 200 times, Pujols was nowhere near that. Am I upset that Pujols lost the MVP...nope because Ryan Howard is a local boy and I'll always go with the hometown kid but Pujols truly deserved the MVP. I believe Pujols also set a major league record this year with 20 game winning homeruns.

Kissrox · Post by **Kissrox** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:01 pm

The great thing about this argument is that Pujols, like Manny, will put up these great numbers year after. Howard, will always be a homerun, rbi man but overall he is not a five tool player, like Puhols. I love Howard but I think he might be in the same catagory as Mo Vaughn. When he hits 30, he'll probably lose bat speed and his numbers will decline. I see Howard as a DH in the AL inabout 7 years. The upside is he is so young, 23-24, I think? I think for arguments sake, Howard wins the MVP becasue A. Chicks dig the long ball B. The Phillies did have a better record. C. the votes are cast after the regular season and before the playoffs. The argument you have to be on a playoff team is BS. Howard was STUD last year!

As for the AL, Ortiz should have won...but that is for another post

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:20 am

If J.D Drew can stay healthy, BOS should have an awesome 123 punch, behind Ramirez and Ortiz. Add the fact that they signed the shortstop postion in J. Lugo, and the Yankees and Jays are in for one tough battle in the East.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:22 am

Guess Drew made a good decision to opt of of the last three years of his Dodger contract (11 mil per). 5 years, 70 million is a significant raise.

Maddux going to San Diego is going to be fairly meaningless in the worst division in baseball.

hellbent · Post by **hellbent** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:41 pm

jLp vAkEr0 wrote:Glavine re-signs with the Mets.

Most baseball columnists predict Zito will follow.

I'll take that.

The Mets just traded Brian Bannister to Kansas City for reliever Ambiorix Burgos.

I'm sure part of this is due to the bullpen being depleted due to Mota's suspension, but why give up Bannister? He had starter potential, and looked good in his work before the hamstring injury.

Now it looks like even if the Mets sign Zito, they're still going to have to make use of Victim Zambrano in the rotation instead of relegating him to reliever duty (which looked like a better fit for him lately). Apparently, they still feel the need to try to justify the horrible Zambrano - Kazmir deal by keeping him in the rotation.

This move, along with the signing of vets on their last legs - such as replacing Cliff Floyd (due to age and injury concerns) with the even older and more oft-injured Moises Alou - has me wondering what in the hell they are doing with a team that just needed a few offseason changes to get the team back into the WS.

wabash97 · Post by **wabash97** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:08 pm

Beginning in 2003, Alou has played 151, 155, 123 and 98-game seasons (for a total of 527 games), amassing 334 RBIs (just a stat example, I didn't go through them all).
Beginning in 2003, Floyd played 108, 113, 150 and 97-game seasons (for a total of 468), amassing 273 RBIs). Also, I realize it's sort of arbitrary to start in 2003, and it's a concern that Alou's missed so many game in the last two years, but he's relatively cheap, supposedly healthy now, and probably a more consistent performer at this point.
And Alou hits lefties better. And pisses on his hands.

I think they're viewing Bannister as a 4th or 5th starter, at best, and they have Humber, Pelfrey, Williams and a few other guys in the system who might be able to perform at Bannister's level this year, or very soon. And all three of those are thought to have more potential for the future in terms of maybe being a 2nd or 3rd option in the rotation. In Burgos, they get a young guy who throws hard, pitched well at the end of the season for the Royals, and is a Rick Peterson-type of guy. The Mets showed last year how valuable a deep bullpen can be ...

For the rotation they have Glavine, El Duque, Maine and Perez, so I don't see why Humber or any of the young guys wouldn't be able to keep Zambrano in the bullpen, or AAA.

As for the rest of the team, not much has changed. Minaya has already said, in so many words, that Valentin doesn't necessarily need to start at 2B; and otherwise, they're pretty much the same team with the exception of interchangeable arms.

hellbent · Post by **hellbent** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:05 pm

[quote="wabash97"]And Alou hits lefties better. And pisses on his hands. [quote]

Nice point about Alou. Tactically speaking anyway, he's a good pickup for Randolph to play with and a heady fielder, provided he is indeed past the injury problems. I guess it's the New Yorker in me that tends to look at the potential negatives first in replacing Floyd with Alou. I've been personally hoping to see a good utility outfielder get picked up who's under 30 and has some tread left on the tires. It's a long way to spring training, though, so maybe Minaya is waiting for some of the free agency dust to settle after going after his big guns (assuming they are seriously chasing Zito).

And I have to also admit that while Bannister looked good, I must say that Pelfrey looks better in terms of long range potential. They didn't give him much of a chance last season, so maybe that changes with Bannister's departure. Maine and Perez both solidified their standings in the rotation during the postseason, and Glavine might be a bargain if age doesn't catch up to him over the next 2 years. El Duque, though...there's a concern. Inconsistent and looking like he's going downhill fast. I'm hoping that Randolph will be quick to pull him from the rotation if he struggles in the spring, and give the youngsters a long look.

Burgos has every opportunity now to show what he can or can't do. Maybe Randolph can entertain the thought of trying him some at closer - I personally can't stand Wagner, but by the numbers he was effective during the regular season (aside from the midseason subway series).

Since Endy Chavez has performed so well, I'm interested to see how Lastings Milledge might fit into the picture as well - or if they're entertaining trade offers. I guess the picture will get a bit clearer once the big signings happen over these next few weeks.

wabash97 · Post by **wabash97** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:06 am

"I guess it's the New Yorker in me that tends to look at the potential negatives first in replacing Floyd with Alou."

Know how you feel, but I'm still either naive enough, or crazy enough, to drink the Minaya Kool-Aid for another year. And Floyd was probably my favorite among the Mets while he was here. A class guy all the way, and gritty, even with the injuries.

Agree with you on Pelfrey. And, also interested in Milledge. I like Chavez, but would have some reservations about him as the everyday guy. Of course, Green was a corpse in the field at the end of the year ...

Anyway, the next few weeks should be interesting. I think the Mets have a pretty strong bargaining position on Zito.

wabash97 · Post by **wabash97** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:07 am

Dammit. Double.

Sully · Post by **Sully** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:43 am

Phillies acquired Freddie Garcia from the White Sox for minor leaguers Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd.

Good deal for the Phils.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:36 am

Sully wrote:Phillies acquired Freddie Garcia from the White Sox for minor leaguers Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd.

Good deal for the Phils.

He had a good streak going towards the end of the season, his problem has been consistency, don't know if he pitched in the NL yet but a good pick up indeed.