OT: NFL 2006 Season Discussion

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:20 pm

If there is one area on the defense the Hawks has been vulnerable, it's the secondary. What Seattle really need is a safety. In an ideal world, it would be a safety who could cover and help the pass defense, and also help get everyone in the secondary lined up properly. They got burned a few times with the deep pass this season.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:25 pm

Grossman has had 5 great games, against 5 bad defenses.

In the last 6, his passer rating is 59? And one of those 6 was against the 49ers where his rating was like the maximum.

Like I said before, last year, as he came back from injury and took over from Orton, there was a lot of excitement and then in the playoffs, he didn't do as well as those stretch games.

He's still young so the inconsistency is probably to be expected. I wouldn't proclaim him a franchise QB or write him off as mediocre yet. Just call him streaky and hope that he's on a good streak.

Like any other QB, if he's got protection and his WRs are getting open, he'll do well.

It seems like the gameplans have been aggressive, having him look for those reads down field. Could be that the coaching staff want more than for him to manage games and leave it to the defense and special teams to win games. High risk/reward of course.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:29 pm

wco81 wrote:
He's still young so the inconsistency is probably to be expected. I wouldn't proclaim him a franchise QB or write him off as mediocre yet. Just call him streaky and hope that he's on a good streak.

My point exactly. And the reason that those around town calling for Griese are misguided IMO.

TheHiddenTrack · Post by **TheHiddenTrack** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:50 pm

A few things about the Seahawks,

I thought the O-line played great last night I'm not really sure what you guys are watching. They aren't as good as they were last year but they still have injuries to their starting center (Tobeck) and right tackle (Locklear).

The Seahawks aren't they team they were last year (Engram, Tubbs, Locklear, Alexander, Stevens, Hasselbeck, and Tobeck have all missed significant time). But they are more talented at the skill positions, the signing of Branch has helped. Nate Burelson adds another threat at PR and KR. And as long as Hasselbeck and Alexander are playing at their pro-bowl level the Seahawks will have a chance to win against any team in the NFC.

However, they are obviously a flawed team. The defense can't tackle. The secondary is below average, but they seem to be picking it up. But they aren't nearly as cohesive and they are making tons of mistakes they didn't make last year. But the defense does have talented players (Trufant, Tatupu, Hill, Peterson, Hamlin) and below them (Wistrom, Fisher, Bernard, Darby, etc) So they aren't terrible, but they do need to prove themselves against a good offense (like the dominating Cowboys and and Bears offenses). I do think the Saints would beat the Seahawks at this point though.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:50 pm

RobVarak wrote:
wco81 wrote:
He's still young so the inconsistency is probably to be expected. I wouldn't proclaim him a franchise QB or write him off as mediocre yet. Just call him streaky and hope that he's on a good streak.
My point exactly. And the reason that those around town calling for Griese are misguided IMO.

Completely misguided. And Grossman has not been as bad as people think. He was awful in three games, but he's played well otherwise. His biggest problem is that, like a poker player who tilts after a bad beat, he starts trying to make big plays when he gets behind. They moved the ball very well against a tough Pats defense, but the penalty on the field goal and the fumbled snap killed their momentum.

The Saints are going to struggle in the playoffs, in my opinion, because they can't control the flow of the game. Both their run defense and run offense are bad. They live and die on the pass, and while that might win a playoff game, it tends to not carry teams through.

Dallas and Seattle look solid, especially if Seattle can get some players healthy again. With the Cowboys, I would worry about Romo in a playoff game because that initial experience can rattle QBs new to it. However, they have the best balance of passing, running, and defense.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:23 am

Now seriously Bears fans. Are you guys the least bit worried that Grossman has turned into a JV High School QB? His QB rating this week was UNDER 10. That's ridiculously horrible. 6 for 19, 34 yards and 3 INTs...like, seriously. I know teams have won with bad QBs before, Dilfer most recently, but he never hurt the Ravens like that. If not for a nice D and Devin Hester, the Bears should have lost at least 2 more games...based on the fact that Grossman is absolute garbage against all but the worst teams in the league.

Now, I will admit that the weather probably had something to do with it. But come on.

It's a serious question. How many games does your D have to win for you against mediocre opponents (some worse than mediocre) before you realize that once you hit the post season, the teams will actually be decent and you will NOT win. I just wonder if Greise might need to be under center for the Bears to win...and obviously, the sooner, the better so he can at least get into some sort of rhythm before the second season starts. That's just me I guess.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:45 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:Now seriously Bears fans. Are you guys the least bit worried that Grossman has turned into a JV High School QB? His QB rating this week was UNDER 10. That's ridiculously horrible. 6 for 19, 34 yards and 3 INTs...like, seriously. I know teams have won with bad QBs before, Dilfer most recently, but he never hurt the Ravens like that. If not for a nice D and Devin Hester, the Bears should have lost at least 2 more games...based on the fact that Grossman is absolute garbage against all but the worst teams in the league.

Now, I will admit that the weather probably had something to do with it. But come on.

It's a serious question. How many games does your D have to win for you against mediocre opponents (some worse than mediocre) before you realize that once you hit the post season, the teams will actually be decent and you will NOT win. I just wonder if Greise might need to be under center for the Bears to win...and obviously, the sooner, the better so he can at least get into some sort of rhythm before the second season starts. That's just me I guess.

Grossman is horrible. There's no other way to put it. No decent qb has the kind of games he has once in a season, let alone 3 or 4 times. I said it last year and I'll say it again this year, the Bears can beat up on the 49ers and that weak division they play in, but when they play some real competition come playoff time, they will make an early exit again.

Let them leave Grossman in there...that means when and if my Cowboys meet them they will only have to worry about scoring 10 points or so to win the game. I'm actually worried more about New Orleans, Carolina, and Seattle than I am about the Bears in the playoffs.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:01 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:Now seriously Bears fans. Are you guys the least bit worried that Grossman has turned into a JV High School QB? His QB rating this week was UNDER 10. That's ridiculously horrible. 6 for 19, 34 yards and 3 INTs...like, seriously. I know teams have won with bad QBs before, Dilfer most recently, but he never hurt the Ravens like that. If not for a nice D and Devin Hester, the Bears should have lost at least 2 more games...based on the fact that Grossman is absolute garbage against all but the worst teams in the league.

Now, I will admit that the weather probably had something to do with it. But come on.

It's a serious question. How many games does your D have to win for you against mediocre opponents (some worse than mediocre) before you realize that once you hit the post season, the teams will actually be decent and you will NOT win. I just wonder if Greise might need to be under center for the Bears to win...and obviously, the sooner, the better so he can at least get into some sort of rhythm before the second season starts. That's just me I guess.

Worried? Worried? F. yes we're worried! But as a Bears fan it's good to be back on familiar ground with respect to our QB situation.

I'm even more worried because, unlike many other people in this town apparently, I've actually seen Brian Griese play before. People seem to think that because he managed to pick apart second stringers and undrafted free agents in the second half of the pre-season games, he'll waltz in here and turn into Tom Brady.

I think going to Griese, at least for now, is the right move. But I'm a lot less optimistic that it'll be any sort of solution. Choosing between Grossman's inconsistency but higher ceiling and Griese's established level of solid mediocrity is easy now, but may be less so if Griese lays an egg or two down the stretch.

And why is nobody talking about how Thomas Jones should also be introduced to the nicely heated bench right about now, as Cedric "The Mouthinator" Benson is running circles around him?

AJColossal · Post by **AJColossal** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:01 pm

It bears repeating that both starting QBs looked horrific. Johnson had 10 ints all year, and he had four in this game. As someone who braved the arctic conditions at the game, let me tell you, the winds really picked up as the game went on, and that definitely played a role.

With that said, clearly something if off with Grossman. I'm not sure the deep heaves that they keep forcing are a function of Grossman's decision-making or the playcalling. Either way, it's not working.

If they go with Grossman, I'd really like to see a more conservative approach to the playcalling. And yes, there is some irony considering that not too long ago, our offensive gameplan did not invove even attempting a vertical passing game.

SoMisss2000 · Post by **SoMisss2000** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:20 am

With the Cowboys, I would worry about Romo in a playoff game because that initial experience can rattle QBs new to it. However, they have the best balance of passing, running, and defense.

LOL!!! You would worry about Romo in a playoff game when your starting QB had a freaking 1.3 QB rating against the Vikings? We finally saw Romo with some adversity/bad first half and came back to be clutch in the 2nd half. I've heard it all now. Bears fans, including Lovie Smith sound like fans of a team who have not had much success in the past couple years who are ignoring a MAJOR problem and being satisfied with 10-2. That record won't mean anything in the playoffs. The Bears won't be playing the Vikings, Packers, and the Lions in the first round. The Saints, Cowboys, Seahawks, and anyone of the wildcard teams WILL be able to move the ball contrary to everyone knowing how great the Bears Defense is. The game is all about the QB and Grossman flat out sucks right now. How many times is the defense and special teams going to have to bail Grossman out? Grossman should get one half next week to show he can lead that team. If not, go to the proven vet if you care anything about getting to Miami.

BTW, Romo will be fine. If the defense gets back to where they were in the Indy game, I like our chances going into the playoffs. Bill Parcells is pressing all the right buttons and everything he's touching is gold right now. We'll see how it turns out.

bkrich83 · Post by **bkrich83** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:39 am

I never thought I would say this, but the Chargers are fighting for homefield advantage in the playoffs. Yay!!

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:04 am

bkrich83 wrote:I never thought I would say this, but the Chargers are fighting for homefield advantage in the playoffs. Yay!!

And if they get it...you can engrave LT's name on the MVP trophy. That guy is absolutely ridiculous.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:45 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:And if they get it...you can engrave LT's name on the MVP trophy. That guy is absolutely ridiculous.

Even as a Colts fan, I think that LDT is by far the favorite for the MVP--Manning or Brees aren't even close.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:32 am

Grossman looked terrible. They definitely have to consider the switch. If he plays like that against the Rams, I think they go with Griese for the last three games. Like Rob, I don't feel great about that. However, the Bears can't keep giving the ball away like they have been, and at this point I think Griese will do a better job protecting the football.

Chicago definitely needs to improve their run defense, but I can't help but be impressed by the turnovers they are forcing. The key to playoff wins tends to be turnovers. I know the Chicago haters love to crow about their weak schedule, but they beat the Seahawks and played the Pats tough on the road. The only thing I'm worried about (and it's a big worry) are the offensive turnovers. If they can fix that, they are going to be very tough to beat.

The Cowboys and Romo definitely look very good. Romo in particular is playing terrific. If they win against New Orleans this week, they will be in really good shape for a first-round bye. I would not want to play them right now.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:20 pm

Who WAS THAT in Jeff Garcia's uniform last night?

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:01 pm

You know the question is, is the gameplan calling for too many deep plays which aren't there (as they were earlier in the season) or is Grossman going for the deep routes too much instead of checking down?

You would think the coaches would change the gameplans and emphasize to Grossman about the need to protect the ball, don't force the deep balls.

But if they're telling him the same thing that they are saying publicly -- Rex is our guy, we're 10-2, there is really no big problem, etc. -- that could be setting him up for disaster in the playoffs.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:03 pm

If the cowboys and bears met in the playoffs, I think the bears defense would destroy Tony Romo. On the other hand, Grossman may throw about 5 int's and lose that game for them.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:29 pm

wco81 wrote:You know the question is, is the gameplan calling for too many deep plays which aren't there (as they were earlier in the season) or is Grossman going for the deep routes too much instead of checking down?

In a interview I heard today, Ron Turner implied that this was precisely the case. Something to the effect of, "Just because there's a vertical route on a particular play doesn't mean that every pass needs to go to that receiver."

It seems to me that a large part of Grossman's problem lately hasn't just been a failure to check off, but rather taking an insanely long time to do so when he doesn't just heave it. The result is that by the time he dumps off to the RB or TE, there's no way for the play to go anywhere...leads to lots of 2 yard gains. He needs to improve his pre-snap reads and get through his progression faster.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:32 pm

Brando70 wrote:I know the Chicago haters love to crow about their weak schedule, but they beat the Seahawks and played the Pats tough on the road.

Yeah, but without Alexander...and they got rolled at home to my horrible Dolphins. All because Rex was terrible. It pretty much started his downward spiral.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:36 pm

Brando70 wrote:Grossman looked terrible. They definitely have to consider the switch. If he plays like that against the Rams

............He should be excecuted. The Rams have the worst yds per play D in the league.

Grossman plays well against the soft D's....Lions, Seahawks, Niners,Packers....and terrible against the good ones. He cant handle a pass rush. He has no clue against a blitz.
The Fact that the Bears are 10-2 is a testament to how great the rest of the team is. GREAT D...GREAT STs...Good OL...Good RBs...Good WRs.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:40 pm

RobVarak wrote:
wco81 wrote:You know the question is, is the gameplan calling for too many deep plays which aren't there (as they were earlier in the season) or is Grossman going for the deep routes too much instead of checking down?
In a interview I heard today, Ron Turner implied that this was precisely the case. Something to the effect of, "Just because there's a vertical route on a particular play doesn't mean that every pass needs to go to that receiver."

It seems to me that a large part of Grossman's problem lately hasn't just been a failure to check off, but rather taking an insanely long time to do so when he doesn't just heave it. The result is that by the time he dumps off to the RB or TE, there's no way for the play to go anywhere...leads to lots of 2 yard gains. He needs to improve his pre-snap reads and get through his progression faster.

It's definitely the execution, not the playcalling. I've been happy with the Bears offensive gameplan for the first time since 2001. Grossman is not checking off and instead chucking the ball under pressure.

His mechanics are very screwy right now, which is what really concerns me. He's making a lot of throws off his back foot or without following through. I wasn't that worried after the NE game, because I thought his decisionmaking (with the exception of his last throw) was decent. But he looked lost against a Vikings team that's had trouble stopping the pass.

The Cowboys would definitely be a lot for any team to handle, Chicago or otherwise. They are getting it done in every facet of their gameplan. I think they'll beat the Saints this weekend.

I love that the Chargers could get homefield in the AFC. LT is so much fun to watch, and that team is put together very well. Hopefully their coaching won't hold them back.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:49 pm

Inuyasha wrote:If the cowboys and bears met in the playoffs, I think the bears defense would destroy Tony Romo. On the other hand, Grossman may throw about 5 int's and lose that game for them.

I'm not ready to put Romo in the Hall of Fame like the local media, but I honestly don't think anyone can "destroy" him. He's too good, and he's not a fluke. Like Parcells has to keep telling everyone, he's not a rookie...

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:14 pm

Kazuya wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:If the cowboys and bears met in the playoffs, I think the bears defense would destroy Tony Romo. On the other hand, Grossman may throw about 5 int's and lose that game for them.
I'm not ready to put Romo in the Hall of Fame like the local media, but I honestly don't think anyone can "destroy" him. He's too good, and he's not a fluke. Like Parcells has to keep telling everyone, he's not a rookie...

He just seems like he's having a lot of fun, playing relaxed and not forcing things. He knows he has a lot of weapons and is very good about finding the open guy.

Teams will be watching a lot of tape of those two games against the Giants. He did not play that well against them, although the first one was admittedly his first as a starter.

I also think the Gramatica signing will come back to bite them in the ass. He's been out of the league for a reason and hasn't had a good season since 2002. He made a huge kick yesterday but I don't think he'll be consistent and I would be nervous if a playoff win came down to him making a kick.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:48 pm

The problem with Grossman is he is pressing, if a hitter can press in baseball it's entirely possible for a QB to press. Is it any wonder? he is young and has a lot to learn, but early success here has everyone thinking Superbowl and they have been hammering him for two months.

A lot of people were waiting for his downward sprial with gleee in this town, and at the first sign of trouble have been on him worse then anything I have seen ever. Should he be able to ignore it and go about his business? i would hope so, but he is pretty young and to say people have not been kind in this town is the understatement of the year.

Apparently when I was on vacation the Bears using their newly acquired hero power, bent time and space and brought back a Joe Montana in his prime as the backup QB.

If that's not the case I don't see why anyone thinks old BG is gonna step in and go light out. Last time I checked he wasn't exactly a hot property.

I'm not going to sit here and make excuses for Grossman as he has played terrible, but I find it funny the receivers are catching none of the blame. That first interception he threw this week when he was trying to hit Berrian, well lets just say if Romo threw that to Glen or TO the results would have been different. the DB couldn't even see the ball because of the sun and it hit him in the chest and Berrian did nothing at all to try and break that up. Where has the TE gone? aparrently if they put someone to cover him he can't get open thats the only explanation i can think of.

While I'm on my rant Thomas Jones couldn't pick up a blitz to save his life, he has oh'layed so many pickups this year it is laughable that the Bears are saying Benson isn't starting because Jones is a better pass protector. If thats the case Benson couldn't block and old lady in a wheel chair.

Whew sorry a lot of built up anger at all the BS.

Bottom line Grossman is terrible as of late. You want to make a switch then be prepared to stay with it and ride it home, because this horsecrap I've been hearing about letting him sit a few games and if Griese doesn't do well come back to Rex is bullshit. You think he is pressing now, put him on the bench for 3 games and then come back to him by default and see what happens.

Or better yet do exactly what Coach Smith is doing, tell the media and the fans to go f*** themselves and eat some brats, because he is the coach and things will be done his way.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:57 pm

Grossman reminds me a lot of a young Steve Young when he was behind Montana. Young would never do well in the big game when Joe was hurt and even when he took the helm after Joe retired, it took him some years to develop into a winning QB.