OT: NFL 2006 Season Discussion

[hellbent]

And how much longer does Atlanta stick with Vick? I understood the "he just wins" argument, but now he doesn't win. He's barely completing half his passes this year. He has made no progress as a QB since he got hurt in 2003.

I don't envy the Falcons in this situation. You have a guy who helps you rake in tons of dollars in merchandise and puts fans in the seats, but who has been as inconsistent a player as you'll find in the league.

Vick throws a great deep ball and is a fantastic scrambler with tons of athletic gifts, but still struggles to find gaps underneath the coverage. He's not a strong improvisor despite his abilities - when he throws on the run outside of the pocket it's usually one of those "bounce passes" tossed to avoid a sack.

He's been playing in the West Coast offense, which has traditionally been kind to scrambling QBs the last few years. Steve Young and Rich Gannon found success with the offense after struggling early in their careers, and Donovan McNabb has grown up in the system and put together some amazing seasons.

Yet, even a casual observer can see Vick "lock on" to one receiver a play, and rather than checking down, will look to run. The great mobile QBs run almost as a last resort, looking to improvise first and try to buy time to make their progressions. It seems that when Vick posts good numbers passing, it's off of his receivers getting open deep downfield and beating defenders. Since the playoff victory in Lambeau a few years ago, the Vick mystique has definitely faded. The Falcons have made personnel changes, system changes, and coaching changes and the results are not getting any better. It might be time for Vick to have a change of scenery.

At this point, I think the Falcons brass just have to hope that Vick goes down with a relatively minor, yet season-ending injury and get Matt Schaub some work in real games. He's looked pretty good, but hasn't emerged as the clear solution for the Falcons at QB.

[wco81]

They were asking these questions about Vick about a month ago and then he put together 2 or 3 huge games.

Now he's had a tough couple of games.

Can the Falcons really compete without Vick?

They had their running game going real well last year and parts of this season but then people were saying the running focus took away opportunities for Vick.

Doesn't he have a huge contract? So it's not like they can get rid of him even if they wanted to.

Atlanta's defense has been up and down too. Nobody is pointing a finger at them.

[RobVarak]

They were asking these questions about Vick about a month ago and then he put together 2 or 3 huge games.

Now he's had a tough couple of games.

Well, in all fairness, they've been asking questions about Vick for the last 3 years with the limited exception of when he's hurt or having the periodic good run like those three games.

Full disclosure: I am already on the record, in this thread I think, as being a non-believer where Vick is concerned. But what's right is right

[Brando70]

One note on the Chargers defense. The last several games, they've played without Shawne Merriman and Luis Castillo, their two best defenders, and their best pass rusher not named Merriman, Shaun Phillips has been hurt and missed significant time. Castillo comes back this week, Merriman is back after this week, and Phillips is looking better. So their defense should hopefully return to it's early season form in the next few weeks.

3-0 without Merriman, and 2-0 without Castillo, is far more than I could have hoped for. As for being a SB contender, not sure about that, but they look like they have a good shot at making some noise in the postseason.

Their biggest hurdle will be Schottenheimer. The Ravens game is a classic case of what they'll need to overcome when they meet a playoff-caliber defense.

The only two AFC teams that I think could give them trouble are New England and KC. NE because of their defense, Brady, and Belichick. KC because they have many of the same strengths and can control the game with their rushing attack.

I don't think Indy is going to do well (again). They are a worse team than last year, and it is so hard to win playoff games if you can't stop the rush.

[bkrich83]

One note on the Chargers defense. The last several games, they've played without Shawne Merriman and Luis Castillo, their two best defenders, and their best pass rusher not named Merriman, Shaun Phillips has been hurt and missed significant time. Castillo comes back this week, Merriman is back after this week, and Phillips is looking better. So their defense should hopefully return to it's early season form in the next few weeks.

3-0 without Merriman, and 2-0 without Castillo, is far more than I could have hoped for. As for being a SB contender, not sure about that, but they look like they have a good shot at making some noise in the postseason.

Their biggest hurdle will be Schottenheimer. The Ravens game is a classic case of what they'll need to overcome when they meet a playoff-caliber defense.

The only two AFC teams that I think could give them trouble are New England and KC. NE because of their defense, Brady, and Belichick. KC because they have many of the same strengths and can control the game with their rushing attack.

I don't think Indy is going to do well (again). They are a worse team than last year, and it is so hard to win playoff games if you can't stop the rush.

Marty's opened up the Marty Ball offense quite a bit since the Ravens game. They are leading the league in scoring, and it's not because they are playing conservatively.

[dbdynsty25]

Marty's opened up the Marty Ball offense quite a bit since the Ravens game. They are leading the league in scoring, and it's not because they are playing conservatively.

No, it's because they have to when they go into the second half trailing by double digits all of the time.

[XXXIV]

I don't think Indy is going to do well (again). They are a worse team than last year, and it is so hard to win playoff games if you can't stop the rush.

You are correct sir.

[bkrich83]

Marty's opened up the Marty Ball offense quite a bit since the Ravens game. They are leading the league in scoring, and it's not because they are playing conservatively.

No, it's because they have to when they go into the second half trailing by double digits all of the time.

They've come out throwing a lot this year, and take the Cleveland game for example, have not just sat on leads,they've been much more aggressive this year.

[sfz_T-car]

Marty's waiting for the playoffs to go back into his shell.

[Kazuya]

Rivers has been phenomenal. With the Giants' recent slide and Manning's inconsistencies, Giants fans are starting to rumble more and more every week about a do-over on that draft... especially with the success of Merriman. Of course Rivers success, along with the emergence of Tony Romo and the continued success of Carson Palmer reinforces the belief that young QB's who carry a clipboard for at least a year have a more sudden impact than the ones who are thrown into the fire (like Manning, or this year Leinart and Young). Of course Roehtlisberger and many others were thrown into the fire and had immediate impacts, so probably the only conclusion you can make is that drafting and developing QBs is an inexact science.

[jLp vAkEr0]

Giants are 6-4, but as a fan it feels more like 2-6 and out of it. This team is done. Too much injuries and a sudden nose dive from Eli after a good start. Blah...

[wco81]

Giants looked to have a lot of momentum when they beat Dallas on Monday Night a few weeks back. Defense was starting to play better and they got the production out of all those weapons on offense.

But Eli's progress was always illusory, often based on big plays where he lobs the ball up to Plexico. Or just great individual plays by Shockey or Toomer before he got injured.

When he has to try to be patient with more modest routes, he often overthrows them, as if he's never got the reps. to get the timing on those.

His signature play was last year, when he's backing up inside the 10 and then just throws to the middle of the end zone and one of his WRs made a great plat to come back to the ball.

With expectations in NY, will he ever be allowed to play more fundamentally sound football (especially better use of the play action with the good running game and a TE who can't be covered), not look to be the gunslinger?

Things could still change in the next 6 games but his pattern last year was also to fade late.

[dbdynsty25]

Well it clearly looks like the AFC has the superior conference. The Giants and Bears have went into the seller of late and the Seahawks are still trying to get healthy. New Orleans looks to be the class of the NFC at this point...even though they aren't really anything special.

[XXXIV]

Well it clearly looks like the AFC has the superior conference. The Giants and Bears have went into the seller of late and the Seahawks are still trying to get healthy. New Orleans looks to be the class of the NFC at this point...even though they aren't really anything special.

Ill take the Bears against the Saints any day.

[SoMisss2000]

Well it clearly looks like the AFC has the superior conference. The Giants and Bears have went into the seller of late and the Seahawks are still trying to get healthy. New Orleans looks to be the class of the NFC at this point...even though they aren't really anything special.

Ill take the Bears against the Saints any day.

You'll lose every time. as long as Rex Grossman is at the helm, the Bears are an overrated team. East to stop them. Stop the run and cover the deep pass. You got them beat. The defense is phenomenal, but Rex Grossman is holding that team back. At some point, we have to recognize that the Saints are for real.

[jLp vAkEr0]

Why are people overlooking Dallas?

I think they're the best NFC team right now.


Giants are done, I miss the Mets.

[pk500]

Well it clearly looks like the AFC has the superior conference. The Giants and Bears have went into the seller of late and the Seahawks are still trying to get healthy. New Orleans looks to be the class of the NFC at this point...even though they aren't really anything special.

The defense is phenomenal, but Rex Grossman is holding that team back. At some point, we have to recognize that the Saints are for real.

Isn't that exactly what was said about Trent Dilfer and the Ravens in 2000? Don't be so quick to write off the Bears.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Why are people overlooking Dallas?

I think they're the best NFC team right now.

I agree. Hell, even Gruden said he thought Romo was Aikman on Thanksgiving Day.

Take care,
PK

[SoMisss2000]

Well it clearly looks like the AFC has the superior conference. The Giants and Bears have went into the seller of late and the Seahawks are still trying to get healthy. New Orleans looks to be the class of the NFC at this point...even though they aren't really anything special.

The defense is phenomenal, but Rex Grossman is holding that team back. At some point, we have to recognize that the Saints are for real.

Isn't that exactly what was said about Trent Dilfer and the Ravens in 2000? Don't be so quick to write off the Bears.

Take care,
PK

Difference between Grossman and Dilfer? Dilfer was a bus driver who didn't turn the ball over. Not writing off the bears but it always comes down to the QB position when it's all said and done. Also, the Bears defense is not without holes, they can be run on.

[pk500]

Well, hot damn: J.P. Losman looked like an NFL quarterback when it counted for the second consecutive week, and the Bills win another squeaker. One of the main reasons J.P. has been in command the last two weeks is because the patchwork offensive line is doing MUCH better than the first-stringers before they were hurt!

The Bills' playoff chances are about as slim as Barry Goldwater winning an election for mayor of San Francisco, but I still have a bit of hope!

Take care,
PK

[SoMisss2000]

Why are people overlooking Dallas?

I think they're the best NFC team right now.


Giants are done, I miss the Mets.

Because Romo hasn't done it against a quality opponent is the answer you'll get. I'm not ready to fully annoint him but the guy has something. I like him. He sure doesn't lack confidence. He's been a shot in the arm for the entire organization. The team now have hope and believe they can win. I like them to continue to fly under everyone's radar. I think this is where we see Bill Parcells at his best.

[Dave]

I'd put Dallas at #1 in the NFC right now. But if Romo turns into a pumpkin then it probably goes back to the Bears despite Grossman's erratic play.

[RobVarak]

Difference between Grossman and Dilfer? Dilfer was a bus driver who didn't turn the ball over. Not writing off the bears but it always comes down to the QB position when it's all said and done. Also, the Bears defense is not without holes, they can be run on.

The Bears are 10th in the league in rush defense coming in and just held the Dillon and Maroney to 2.5 yds per rush on their home field. Just because Barber had a few big runs on them everybody is calling that a weakness it seems.

Agree that Grossman is a more erratic commodity than Dilfer was, but I think that PK's larger point was that worse QB's than Grossman have won Super Bowls. And it's a valid point.

People are also overreacting to Grossman's performance today IMO. Better QB's than Rex have gone into Foxboro and had days like today. And it sure looked like that hand injury was a factor as well.

[SoMisss2000]

Difference between Grossman and Dilfer? Dilfer was a bus driver who didn't turn the ball over. Not writing off the bears but it always comes down to the QB position when it's all said and done. Also, the Bears defense is not without holes, they can be run on.

The Bears are 10th in the league in rush defense coming in and just held the Dillon and Maroney to 2.5 yds per rush on their home field. Just because Barber had a few big runs on them everybody is calling that a weakness it seems.

Agree that Grossman is a more erratic commodity than Dilfer was, but I think that PK's larger point was that worse QB's than Grossman have won Super Bowls. And it's a valid point.

People are also overreacting to Grossman's performance today IMO. Better QB's than Rex have gone into Foxboro and had days like today. And it sure looked like that hand injury was a factor as well.

People have been talking about Grossman's performance since the Arizona game. He hasn't had a solid game in a long time. If you're going to use Foxboro as an excuse, wait til he plays another solid team. Defense wins championships but the QB has to make the plays when he needs to and Grossman ain't doin it. If the lesser qb's you're referring to are guys like Dilfer and Brad Johnson, then there's still that difference. Those were veteran guys who were game managers who limited their mistakes. Grossman and that offense try for the long ball way to often. He's going to continue to have turnovers if they don't real him in. With Jones and Benson, the Bears should be a run first team. With those two and that defense, Da Bears would be unstoppable. Hell if they adopted the old Steelers philosophy....

[RobVarak]

SoMiss,

But what about their weakness against the run?