Kramer the racist... (now the illegal immigration thread)

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:01 pm

Whatever career that he did have left is officially over..

This video will probably offend some people so if you are easilly offended you may not want to watch it. I thought it was newsworthy though.

http://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp ... id=1772645

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:11 pm

He seemed really angry.... not sure why, no excuse on what he said. What an idiot.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:17 pm

He used to be funny. Based upon what little I saw of that video, he is no longer funny and really pretty sad if what he said, he truly believes. I can't understand why people have to act like @ssholes, but I agree what little he had left to call a "career" should be pretty much over and done with now....no excuse for his comments...PERIOD.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:36 pm

WOW, was he on drugs or something? I mean, what in the f'n world was he thinking?

He's lucky people didn't start jumping on stage and begin kicking his ass.

That was just.... really awkward to watch.

Edit: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15816126/

Apparently two black audience members were shouting that he wasn't funny and then he went on his tirade. Definitly doesn't excuse his comments by any means.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:07 pm

You can expect a story in a few days about how Richards is now in rehab and how he was on something that night.....similiar to the Mel Gibson thing. This will haunt him the rest of his career unless his people do some serious damage control. How can he say such extremely offensive things? You can't even say it was a "botched joke" or anything. He should just issue a public apology and stay away from the media for a few years. Wow.......I dont know what he was thinking.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:51 pm

He should have stuck with jokes about Ovaltine.

Templehorn · Post by **Templehorn** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:44 pm

Norton would have never done this. Thus Norton > Kramer. Case Closed.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:37 pm

I just watched that...I couldnt believe there were people actually laughing......this country still has a long way to go.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:48 pm

He shouldn't have said it, no doubt. I'm sure he's not used to doing stand up and didn't know how to handle the hecklers.

One thing that shocked me in the fallout of all this was Paul Rodriguez's statement along the lines of "When somone who is not African-American says the n word, it's out of line". I will never understand why it is perfectly fine for Chris Rock or Dave Chappelle to use that word just because they are African-American. If you are going to condemn the use of the word, then condemn everyone who says it.

SoMisss2000 · Post by **SoMisss2000** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:56 pm

matthewk wrote:He shouldn't have said it, no doubt. I'm sure he's not used to doing stand up and didn't know how to handle the hecklers.

One thing that shocked me in the fallout of all this was Paul Rodriguez's statement along the lines of "When somone who is not African-American says the n word, it's out of line". I will never understand why it is perfectly fine for Chris Rock or Dave Chappelle to use that word just because they are African-American. If you are going to condemn the use of the word, then condemn everyone who says it.

don't try to understand it, it's just the rule. there's no other explanation.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:26 pm

matthewk wrote:He shouldn't have said it, no doubt. I'm sure he's not used to doing stand up and didn't know how to handle the hecklers.

One thing that shocked me in the fallout of all this was Paul Rodriguez's statement along the lines of "When somone who is not African-American says the n word, it's out of line". I will never understand why it is perfectly fine for Chris Rock or Dave Chappelle to use that word just because they are African-American. If you are going to condemn the use of the word, then condemn everyone who says it.

Not that it's right for anyone to use the word, but there's a difference in the power relationships. If a white person uses the n word, it summons up hundreds of years of repression and racism: slavery, segregation, lynching, and so on. When a black person uses it, while it can also be insulting, it doesn't have the same connotations. There wasn't black slave ownership in this country.

It's the same with other racial groups, gays, and even women using what used to be degrading insults to sort of diffuse the words. The difference for white people is the power structure. There's never been institutionalized racism against whites, where the entire societal structure was set up against us. So if Chris Rock calls me a cracker, while it could be insulting and in poor taste, it doesn't pack the same punch as if I called him the n word.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:46 am

There's also some empowerment that comes along with reclaiming the N word. Gays and lesbians have done this along the same lines with the word "queer",

I've been married to Mrs. Z for 20 years and I can probably count the number of times she's used the N word on both hands. It's usually used in conjunction with her step-father's relatives.

I wish "honky" would come back into vogue. It's really one of the great underutilized racial epithets.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:54 am

Richards just issued a public apology.

He promised never to use the word "fanboy" again.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:39 am

He was on Letterman. It actually felt like an after school Letterman special.

I don't know why we are shocked by racism in this country. There's an undercurrent of it in every part of society. Before this great push of a political correct society, most lived in a racially charged culture. The society has changed but the people haven't. It will take another generation or two to minimize this passing down of racial bias.

What bothers me is that we don't focus of racism that hurts this country. The US public has marginlized celebrities when they make political statements yet when Kramer and Mel Gibson go off, we now pay attention to that. Yet the immigration debate isn't racially motivated. And the ad against the Senate candidate in Tennessee didn't have a hint of racism in that? And while the press picked up on it, no one cared. The Dem party got hot but they don't count political parties whine about everything.

I guess I just don't see what's so big about this. Are we shocked that racism exists or that someone would be this insensitive to racial slurs? Or are we just pissed that we have to like Kramer a little less know because he used racial slurs?

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:55 am

The point isn't the N word - the point is that at the first sign of anger, the guy injects race into his rant. And the fact that he was new to stand up is no excuse. Comedians get heckled all the time and don't resort to using racial epithets- well except maybe Don Rickles.

Having lived through the senate race between Harvey Gant and Jesse Helms, there is no way anyone could convince me that race isn't still a huge issue in this country - and based on what happened in Tennessee, that hasn't changed much.

But let's be frank, the same people who's immigrant ancestors practiced genocide on the American Indian are now fighting to keep illegal immigrants out of "our" country. I guess 200 years gives us squatters rights.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:16 am

kevinpars wrote:But let's be frank, the same people who's immigrant ancestors practiced genocide on the American Indian are now fighting to keep illegal immigrants out of "our" country. I guess 200 years gives us squatters rights.

Ironic, isn't it? We wipe out an entire culture, and yet we are now the ones being "invaded", abeit in a different form. At least the American Indians fought back. It's always sad to think that this was the beginning of our history as a country. Especially now that we are so overly PC about not upsetting anyone. Ironic again I guess.

Still, I don't think we should use that as an excuse to let people flood in and take advantage of systems I pay for with my taxes. You want to work in this country, then you should have a legal passport or work permit, and you should have to abide by the same rules as the rest of us. That includes paying taxes and paying for health care.

JRod, please tell me you did not imply that the immigration debate is racially motivated. I can't tell from your post if you are being sarcastic or really believe that.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:24 am

I just watched it, and WOW.

It seems like he was in the middle of doing a bit, a joke, which obviously involved someone black (fifty years ago we'd have you upside down etc.....), and the person in the joke was using the "n" word (I didn't really get the joke, the video sorta cut out the first part). At that point, Richards seems to go over the line with his black joke and used the "n" word repeatedly (not at the audience members yet). Then, the audience members started heckling him and Richards lost his grip.

It's bad, really bad, but I've seen it reported elsewhere that he was directly those slurs from the getgo at the audience members, which doesn't seem to be the case after watching the video for myself.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:30 am

We do have a long way to go with respect to racism in this country, but it is a slow process with newer generations being less and less racist than their predecesors. Racism seems to be handed down within families mostly, so is someone is taught to be racist and holds onto it for most of their lives, then we have to wait for the next offspring to maybe make some inroads. I feel like today's generation is much less racist than that of 20 years ago, but we still have a long way to go.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:32 am

jondiehl wrote:I just watched it, and WOW.

It seems like he was in the middle of doing a bit, a joke, which obviously involved someone black (fifty years ago we'd have you upside down etc.....), and the person in the joke was using the "n" word (I didn't really get the joke, the video sorta cut out the first part). At that point, Richards seems to go over the line with his black joke and used the "n" word repeatedly (not at the audience members yet). Then, the audience members started heckling him and Richards lost his grip.

It's bad, really bad, but I've seen it reported elsewhere that he was directly those slurs from the getgo at the audience members, which doesn't seem to be the case after watching the video for myself.

No...I'm pretty sure the "upside down with a fork in your ass" and the "n-bombs" were not the tail end of a joke. I think the "upside down with a fork" comment was the very beginning of his tirade against the heckler.

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:00 am

JRod wrote:He was on Letterman. It actually felt like an after school Letterman special.

here's his apology on letterman...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dufHYw-W6j4

emelki · Post by **emelki** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:27 am

matthewk wrote:
kevinpars wrote:But let's be frank, the same people who's immigrant ancestors practiced genocide on the American Indian are now fighting to keep illegal immigrants out of "our" country. I guess 200 years gives us squatters rights.
Ironic, isn't it? We wipe out an entire culture, and yet we are now the ones being "invaded", abeit in a different form. At least the American Indians fought back. It's always sad to think that this was the beginning of our history as a country. Especially now that we are so overly PC about not upsetting anyone. Ironic again I guess.

Still, I don't think we should use that as an excuse to let people flood in and take advantage of systems I pay for with my taxes. You want to work in this country, then you should have a legal passport or work permit, and you should have to abide by the same rules as the rest of us. That includes paying taxes and paying for health care.

JRod, please tell me you did not imply that the immigration debate is racially motivated. I can't tell from your post if you are being sarcastic or really believe that.

I am an inmigrant, LEGAL, an d I am sorry to tell you that you need more information aobut this issue. First fo all. The majority of those illegal inmigrant, if they were legal they will receive ax money, because a big percentage is earning $5.95 per hour. Second, they are paying indirect taxes: For the rent, the gas, food, even for the money that they send to their families in other countries. Third, it is impossible. I repeat, Impossible with the actual laws in this country to come unless you are student, you get married with an american citizen or you can prove that you have certain amount of money (cash, bank account, properties, etc). If these same laws were applied to the majority of the citizens, I am sure that the population of the U.S. will be the same that the population that h have mine, Spain.
Yes the inmigration is a racial issue. I don't here anything about the more than 200,000 illegal inmigrant that comes from Eastern Europe countries? Maybe because all of them look like Dakota Fanning!!!.

I hope that this message does not sound angry, it was not my intention.

Alex

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:34 am

matthewk wrote:Still, I don't think we should use that as an excuse to let people flood in and take advantage of systems I pay for with my taxes. You want to work in this country, then you should have a legal passport or work permit, and you should have to abide by the same rules as the rest of us. That includes paying taxes and paying for health care.

You are exactly right, of course. Any country needs to be able to control who it lets lives and work within its borders, and every country tries to do just that. I've spent a lot of money, time and effort to finally get my 10-year green card and I can't stand the attitude of some supporters of the illegal aliens who want them to get health care benefits that even legal immigrants don't get! People who just hop the border, get fake IDs and SSNs are not immigrants, they're criminals. As are the companies who employ them.

I would have no problem with the US goverment changing its Visa rules to allow large numbers of legal immigrants to come from South and Central America to do the jobs illegal aliens are currently doing. (There's the H-1B visa but its annual maximum is far too low.) And legal immigrants wouldn't have to live in fear of deportation or abusive treatment by evil employers who know illegal aliens have no way to complain about unfair treatment.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:45 am

Spooky wrote: No...I'm pretty sure the "upside down with a fork in your ass" and the "n-bombs" were not the tail end of a joke. I think the "upside down with a fork" comment was the very beginning of his tirade against the heckler.

Either way, it was tasteless and unexcusable. I'm just playing devil's advocate and suggesting that perhaps the camera started rolling during the middle of an racial joke/bit (although Dave Chappelle somehow makes them less cringe-worthy). After the bit you just quoted, he doesn't seem to be quite as racist when speaking directly to the hecklers. I think the hecklers took offense to the joke/act/bit, spoke out about it, and then Richards lost it... with the upside down with a fork in your ass and the repeated n-bombs being some sort of a really really bad punch-line that got off-track and went over the edge. Hard to say, as we weren't there and didn't see what happened before the video started going. It just seems like a different tone after that line, when he's speaking directly to the audience. I dunno. Whatever it was, his career (that was already on fumes) is now over. Enjoy the Seinfeld residuals Michael. I'm sure Mel Gibson called to thank him too.

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:49 am

"There's the H-1B visa but its annual maximum is far too low."

I would say its far too high. Every time we let another H-1B in this country, my salary drops and food is taken off my table.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:06 pm

matthewk wrote:JRod, please tell me you did not imply that the immigration debate is racially motivated. I can't tell from your post if you are being sarcastic or really believe that.

I don't think it's racially motivated, but if there were a large influx of white Canadian illegal immigrants, the tone of the debate would definitely be different.

I'm with SF on honky coming back. It would be hilarious to see white people using that with each other.