OT: Death of a President movie

[GameSeven]

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2006/09/16 ... wards.html

Not sure how I'd missed this or if there had been some prior discussion amongst DSPers, but it's amazing to me that we are at the point that some are celebrating a fictional account of the death of a living individual, the standing president of the USA, no less.

There are more recent new articles to be found discussing the major media outlets' various decisions of whether or not to play the new film, but the fact that it won any awards is, to me, a disgrace.

I think regardless of one's poltical affiliation this is in extremely bad taste.

-G7

[AJColossal]

I think regardless of one's poltical affiliation this is in extremely bad taste.

The exact words I was going to use, but you beat me to it.

[Slumberland]

I don't know, sounds interesting... and not just some anti-Bush polemic:

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2006/10/06/bush-film.html

And it is fiction, after all. One could easily argue that the distortion of truth by our current administration which has led to the real and actual deaths of thousands of Americans is in far, far worse taste. But what do I know?

[EZSnappin]

So celebrating a fictional work is unacceptable? Or is the work itself the problem? Fiction in every field often portrays real people in made up scenarios. If the director made a good movie as opposed to a polemic, I don't have any problem if people want to laud or award it. If, however, the acclaim is for the ideological stance of the film (or the ideology of the critics), then that is a sad state of affairs.

I haven't seen it, so I can't comment on it as a film or whether or not it is a praiseworthy piece of fiction. I do, however, take issue with the idea that a work of fiction should be condemned, or praise for a work condemned, because it is personally distasteful. The first amendment (and the centuries of interpretation of it) protects the right to say what you like as long as it isn't directly inciting action. So, distasteful though this may be, I have no problem with it.

[GTHobbes]

I don't know, sounds interesting... and not just some anti-Bush polemic:

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2006/10/06/bush-film.html

And it is fiction, after all. One could easily argue that the distortion of truth by our current administration which has led to the real and actual deaths of thousands of Americans is in far, far worse taste. But what do I know?

Good post... Not sure if it will play around here, but I'm looking forward to seeing it.

[pk500]

I don't know, sounds interesting... and not just some anti-Bush polemic:

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2006/10/06/bush-film.html

And it is fiction, after all. One could easily argue that the distortion of truth by our current administration which has led to the real and actual deaths of thousands of Americans is in far, far worse taste. But what do I know?

Ding-ding! A real-life war based on a foundation of deceit that has killed nearly 3,000 Americans is OK, but a fictional movie about the assassination of a sitting president is not? Especially when the movie asks serious, legitimate questions about the rush to judgment of those of Arab descent in this country?

You know that if the events of this movie ever happened in reality -- God forbid, sincerely -- that everyone would point their fingers immediately at "them towelheads" when there are just as many looney, red-blooded Americans like Tim McVeigh who are more than capable of such a heinous act.

I think the Constitution is going to be about as respected as a coffee-stained cup doilie at a greasy-spoon diner in about 10 years.

Take care,
PK

[Jackdog]

I don't know, sounds interesting... and not just some anti-Bush polemic:

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2006/10/06/bush-film.html

And it is fiction, after all. One could easily argue that the distortion of truth by our current administration which has led to the real and actual deaths of thousands of Americans is in far, far worse taste. But what do I know?

It's fiction. But the President that's killed in the film isn't. He's our current leader. Right. Left. Middle. I don't care for that at all.

[pk500]

The creator of this film can claim objectivity all he wants, and I claim bullsh*t.

This guy may not be Michael Moore, but given the caustic political times we live in and the left leanings of the film community, I'd be stunned if this guy passed a lie-detector test if he said no when asked if his feelings toward Bush had any effect on the film.

That said, the thoughts in my initial post about this movie remain unchanged.

Take care,
PK

[JackB1]

IT'S A MOVIE!!!!!!

Unfortunately, the REAL deaths of thousands of REAL AMERICANS was not a celluloid creation. We should be more worried about that, then about some fictional account of our so called leader.

[Brando70]

I don't know, sounds interesting... and not just some anti-Bush polemic:

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2006/10/06/bush-film.html

And it is fiction, after all. One could easily argue that the distortion of truth by our current administration which has led to the real and actual deaths of thousands of Americans is in far, far worse taste. But what do I know?

It's fiction. But the President that's killed in the film isn't. He's our current leader. Right. Left. Middle. I don't care for that at all.

I agree with you, Jack. I think it's in poor taste to not fictionalize the President. The filmmaker certainly has a right to make that choice, but IMHO the problem is you wind up focusing on the subject instead of the message.

I do wish there was an equal amount of outrage over the people running our foreign policy into the ground.

[Jackdog]

IT'S A MOVIE!!!!!!

Unfortunately, the REAL deaths of thousands of REAL AMERICANS was not a celluloid creation. We should be more worried about that, then about some fictional account of our so called leader.

I think it offensive to think for one second that I don't have those" Real Americans" dying and getting mamed every goddamned day in my heart.

But you know what Jack? I put my money where my mouth is and I have done something about it. What have you done to help those "Real Americans" you always bring into any argument that involves Bush? Even if you don't have money I am sure you have some time to visit the VA facility in ATL. Again I ask you,are the soldiers you always worry about just political pawns in your political retoric? If so, f*** off. If not. Donate.

Here's the new letter we are sending out:

Dear JackB1,

During the holidays, terrible loneliness can overcome our military and veterans’ hospitals.

Imagine one scenario: You just lost a leg in Iraq. The pain is unbearable. Your family lives in a distant state. And no doctor is going to let you escape the wards to go home for the holidays. The story will differ from one Wounded Warrior to the next, but the plot will be the same for hundreds when December rolls around.

You and I cannot take them out of the wards, sending them home to light their Christmas trees and menorah candles. But you can make a secure gift online to help a hero get through a hard emotional time.

Yes, our troops will put on a brave face and tough it out. But think of the smile you’ll create when the Wounded Warrior Project shows up, bringing a WWP backpack filled with “good stuff” – clothing, personal items, magazines and more – and then engages them in a friendly conversation!

When you support our combat-wounded heroes during the holidays, you’ll do more than give them “things.” You’ll show our sick and injured troops them that the community outside the hospital walls remembers them … and really cares.

When you support our combat-wounded heroes during the holidays, You’ll cheer the heart of a young, newly-injured veteran who feels trapped in a hospital room – alone and unappreciated – during the year’s most special season. More than anything, it’s your kindness that makes your holiday gift so special to a Wounded Warrior in a hospital bed.

So will you give $25 …or $50 to the Wounded Warrior Project? Will you even give $99 for a complete WWP backpack? To give by phone, call (540) 342-0032.

Please act now … so WWP can make sure we have the supplies needed for December!

Ring In the Holidays for our Wounded Warriors!

[emelki]

IT'S A MOVIE!!!!!!

Unfortunately, the REAL deaths of thousands of REAL AMERICANS was not a celluloid creation. We should be more worried about that, then about some fictional account of our so called leader.

I think it offensive to think for one second that I don't have those" Real Americans" dying and getting mamed every goddamned day in my heart.

But you know what Jack? I put my money where my mouth is and I have done something about it. What have you done to help those "Real Americans" you always bring into any argument that involves Bush? Even if you don't have money I am sure you have some time to visit the VA facility in ATL. Again I ask you,are the soldiers you always worry about just political pawns in your political retoric? If so, f*** off. If not. Donate.

Here's the new letter we are sending out:

Dear JackB1,

During the holidays, terrible loneliness can overcome our military and veterans’ hospitals.

Imagine one scenario: You just lost a leg in Iraq. The pain is unbearable. Your family lives in a distant state. And no doctor is going to let you escape the wards to go home for the holidays. The story will differ from one Wounded Warrior to the next, but the plot will be the same for hundreds when December rolls around.

You and I cannot take them out of the wards, sending them home to light their Christmas trees and menorah candles. But you can make a secure gift online to help a hero get through a hard emotional time.

Yes, our troops will put on a brave face and tough it out. But think of the smile you’ll create when the Wounded Warrior Project shows up, bringing a WWP backpack filled with “good stuff” – clothing, personal items, magazines and more – and then engages them in a friendly conversation!

When you support our combat-wounded heroes during the holidays, you’ll do more than give them “things.” You’ll show our sick and injured troops them that the community outside the hospital walls remembers them … and really cares.

When you support our combat-wounded heroes during the holidays, You’ll cheer the heart of a young, newly-injured veteran who feels trapped in a hospital room – alone and unappreciated – during the year’s most special season. More than anything, it’s your kindness that makes your holiday gift so special to a Wounded Warrior in a hospital bed.

So will you give $25 …or $50 to the Wounded Warrior Project? Will you even give $99 for a complete WWP backpack? To give by phone, call (540) 342-0032.

Please act now … so WWP can make sure we have the supplies needed for December!

Ring In the Holidays for our Wounded Warriors!

With all my respects but you are missing the whole point. you don't have to be in the Army to have the freedom to say what you think it is honest and truthful. Or are you best than any American?.
I am not American but it is really sad, that people is wasting time talking about bad a movie is bacause is showing how the kill the actual president of the U.S.A. and not talking about how that person has sent a lot of American to death (And let's not mention more than 100.000 iraquis dead)...for what reason? Let's be real, to make reacher to already reach people and at the same time make the world more unsafe that ever in the HUMAN HISTORY.

[FatPitcher]

Asking "which is more offensive, A or B?" doesn't make A any less offensive.

And going into the off-topic, I agree with JackDog that most of the anti-war people who claim to "support the troops" actually do not support the troops in any way. If I were still in the military, I would not feel supported by people telling me that my mission, which I was doing at risk of life and limb for peanuts in miserable conditions, was completely pointless and doomed to failure. Nor by people accusing me, without any real knowledge of what happened, of war crimes I did not commit. A good series of interviews with Code Pink protestors here (link to more at the end of this article): http://www.indepundit.com/archive2/2006 ... ons_w.html

[XXXIV]

We should be more worried about that, then about some fictional account of our so called leader.

Like him or hate him( Im not a big fan)...he is your leader.

[pk500]

Let's be real, to make reacher to already reach people and at the same time make the world more unsafe that ever in the HUMAN HISTORY.

Dude:

I'm against the war, but your above statement is quite a stretch.

I would think the world was just a tad more unsafe during World War II, when full-scale war raged on three continents and both oceans simultaneously. Even the Cuban Missile Crisis, when both Kennedy and Nikita K. held trembling fingers above the red buttons to annhiliate the world, was a hell of a lot riskier than today.

I'm not underestimating the threat of fundamental Islamic terrorists. But to say the world is more dangerous today than when a good chunk of the world was in active combat from 1939-45, including the attempted extermination of an entire religious sect that cost 6 million lives, is hyperbole of the highest level.

Take care,
PK

[JackB1]

You don't know what I have given to or not given to, so please don't make assumptions on my behalf. I gave $ the past 3 years to PVA (Paralyzed Veterans of America) and I also auctioned off a guitar for close to $1,000 last year and sent that to the Amer. Red Cross. for Katrina victims. Regardless of what I give or dont give, I have to right to have my opinion, whether you agree with it or not. I still believe the best gift you could give these soldiers is to bring them home, safe and sound.

IT'S A MOVIE!!!!!!

But you know what Jack? I put my money where my mouth is and I have done something about it. What have you done to help those "Real Americans" you always bring into any argument that involves Bush? Even if you don't have money I am sure you have some time to visit the VA facility in ATL. Again I ask you,are the soldiers you always worry about just political pawns in your political retoric? If so, f*** off. If not. Donate.

[Jackdog]

With all my respects but you are missing the whole point. you don't have to be in the Army to have the freedom to say what you think it is honest and truthful. Or are you best than any American?.
I am not American but it is really sad, that people is wasting time talking about bad a movie is bacause is showing how the kill the actual president of the U.S.A. and not talking about how that person has sent a lot of American to death (And let's not mention more than 100.000 iraquis dead)...for what reason? Let's be real, to make reacher to already reach people and at the same time make the world more unsafe that ever in the HUMAN HISTORY.

First off I don't buy the whole broken english writing thing a bit bro. If you can read it, you can write it. Spellcheck is your friend.

Secondly, I said nothing to Jack about joining the Army. And I respect his opinion,but I also have the right to mine and I wrote it. My post to Jack was brought on by the fact he always uses the "Dead soldiers" argument when it comes to politics. It gets old because the scumbags on both sides of the aisle in Washington do that all the time.

At this stage of both wars,these men and women know exactly what is at stake when they raise their right hand. They believe in the war and put their lives on the line with that belief. They are on 3rd and 4th tours and still go back when called. That is something no one that's ever served will understand or relate to. How could you? Do you willingly face death when you game or sit down at your computer? I don't think so.
My point to Jack was if he really cares about the troops do something for them. f*** the politics of it. And he has. So God bless him.

As far as your other comments. I respect my President. No matter if I voted for him or not. He is still my President. I don't like it when someone suggests the murder of my President and portrays it on screen. It's happened to American leaders in the past and it doesn't sit well with me to see it made light of.

On that note, I am not going to go off and look to kill the asswipes that made the film. Freedom of speech. It's an wonderful thing.

As far as the world being unsafe. Maybe you should point a finger at the folks that wanted the Holy Father beheaded for his insights on the history of religion. I know for a fact they are piling up high body counts of their own people in the behalf of theirs. Anyone that kills their own innocent people give me the piss shivers. How about you? Feel safe with those kind of animals around?

[Teal]

Political hack horseshit. If the man did a hit piece on the sitting Pope, for example, he'd be tarred and feathered. Or on Kim Jong, for that matter.

This guy's a jerkwad who needs to be shitcanned. Freedom of speech, my ass. This is NOT what the founding fathers had in mind; lie to yourself all you want...

[EZSnappin]

Freedom of speech, my ass. This is NOT what the founding fathers had in mind; lie to yourself all you want...

Yeah - guys that overthrew their "rightful government" would have a huge problem with a fictional hit piece. Dream on - they were true revolutionaries, not just blowhards.

You have every right to think it is vile - and the creators have every right to do it. This blanket condemnation of something no one here has seen is just sad and pathetic.

[pk500]

Political hack horseshit. If the man did a hit piece on the sitting Pope, for example, he'd be tarred and feathered. Or on Kim Jong, for that matter.

This guy's a jerkwad who needs to be shitcanned. Freedom of speech, my ass. This is NOT what the founding fathers had in mind; lie to yourself all you want...

Actually, it's EXACTLY what the Founding Fathers had in mind. I'm sure the British -- the sitting government at the time in the Colonies -- and their loyalist supporters saw Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" as being as seditious as many see this film.

Take care,
PK

[Bill_Abner]

and their loyalist supporters saw Thomas Paine's "Common Sense" as being as seditious as many see this film.

Take care,
PK

I'd argue moreso, actually. Paine's pamphlet wasn't fiction, either.

I doubt I see this movie. It just doesn't hold any interest to me. But it IS Freedom of Speech. Whether you like that Speech is not the debate. Or at least it shouldn't be.

[Sport73]

A fictional hypothesis is better than an ABC movie on 9-11 that claims to be TRUE and is instead fiction.

While I do worry about the 'message' of a film that could give a wacko an idea to kill the president; it's perfectly valid, especially in these volitile time, to consider the ramification of such a huge event.

In the same way, I don't think it's bad to hypothesize 'what would've happened' if JFK lived. etc.

[emelki]

With all my respects but you are missing the whole point. you don't have to be in the Army to have the freedom to say what you think it is honest and truthful. Or are you best than any American?.
I am not American but it is really sad, that people is wasting time talking about bad a movie is bacause is showing how the kill the actual president of the U.S.A. and not talking about how that person has sent a lot of American to death (And let's not mention more than 100.000 iraquis dead)...for what reason? Let's be real, to make reacher to already reach people and at the same time make the world more unsafe that ever in the HUMAN HISTORY.

First off I don't buy the whole broken english writing thing a bit bro. If you can read it, you can write it. Spellcheck is your friend.

Secondly, I said nothing to Jack about joining the Army. And I respect his opinion,but I also have the right to mine and I wrote it. My post to Jack was brought on by the fact he always uses the "Dead soldiers" argument when it comes to politics. It gets old because the scumbags on both sides of the aisle in Washington do that all the time.

At this stage of both wars,these men and women know exactly what is at stake when they raise their right hand. They believe in the war and put their lives on the line with that belief. They are on 3rd and 4th tours and still go back when called. That is something no one that's ever served will understand or relate to. How could you? Do you willingly face death when you game or sit down at your computer? I don't think so.
My point to Jack was if he really cares about the troops do something for them. f*** the politics of it. And he has. So God bless him.

As far as your other comments. I respect my President. No matter if I voted for him or not. He is still my President. I don't like it when someone suggests the murder of my President and portrays it on screen. It's happened to American leaders in the past and it doesn't sit well with me to see it made light of.

On that note, I am not going to go off and look to kill the asswipes that made the film. Freedom of speech. It's an wonderful thing.

As far as the world being unsafe. Maybe you should point a finger at the folks that wanted the Holy Father beheaded for his insights on the history of religion. I know for a fact they are piling up high body counts of their own people in the behalf of theirs. Anyone that kills their own innocent people give me the piss shivers. How about you? Feel safe with those kind of animals around?

Well if you can't believe somthing as simple as I am from Spain, but I am living in Richmond right now and I am taking English classes to improve my English, and that is the reason of my bad spelling...what can I say. "You just told me how open you are".

I am sorry but all of you that say" He is my president and I have to respect him". That is bull****. So all the Germans had to respect Hitler because he was his "president", or all the muslims has to respect to Bin Laden because he wants to be his leader, even if he is giving a completly different idea of what is to be muslim?. NO sir, no human being is above criticism, no matter what is his position. People who believes in other people so strongly can do really bad things to other human beings, and I am againsts that.

About what I said with the horrible times thatt we are living. I was talking not only about war, but about environment and treatment to other countries. Yes, in 2005 there were more people diying for malnourishment in Africa than ever. And we passed 375 the limits of CO2 in the atmosphere, 420 is the point of not return. 47% of all the global polution is created for this beatiful country with horrible and gready presidents(and friends of these).

Finally, we had a president like Bush, J. Maria Aznar. And yes, we cmade strong criticism for his way to handle the country. Thankfully we finished with his dictatorial ideas. Unfortunally after the terroris of Al-Qaeda killed 191 inocent citizens in Madrid.

Alex

[pk500]

I am sorry but all of you that say" He is my president and I have to respect him". That is bull****. So all the Germans had to respect Hitler because he was his "president", or all the muslims has to respect to Bin Laden because he wants to be his leader, even if he is giving a completly different idea of what is to be muslim?. NO sir, no human being is above criticism, no matter what is his position. People who believes in other people so strongly can do really bad things to other human beings, and I am againsts that.

Again, you're practicing extremism of the highest order. Bush is sh*tty president, IMO, but you're comparing him to a dictator who wanted to eliminate a race and a terrorist who wants to eliminate the entire Western world.

That is quite a stretch. Bush is a president deluded by power, unwilling to accept or even consider dissenting opinions, the end result of which is some horrible decisions that have cost many lives. But the loss of life is not his intent, which was the case for Hitler and Bin Laden. Bush is not a butcher or someone who would order airplanes to be flown into skyscrapers to kill civilians.

Take care,
PK

[Jackdog]

Well if you can't believe somthing as simple as I am from Spain, but I am living in Richmond right now and I am taking English classes to improve my English, and that is the reason of my bad spelling...what can I say. "You just told me how open you are".

I am sorry but all of you that say" He is my president and I have to respect him". That is bull****. So all the Germans had to respect Hitler because he was his "president", or all the muslims has to respect to Bin Laden because he wants to be his leader, even if he is giving a completly different idea of what is to be muslim?. NO sir, no human being is above criticism, no matter what is his position. People who believes in other people so strongly can do really bad things to other human beings, and I am againsts that.

About what I said with the horrible times thatt we are living. I was talking not only about war, but about environment and treatment to other countries. Yes, in 2005 there were more people diying for malnourishment in Africa than ever. And we passed 375 the limits of CO2 in the atmosphere, 420 is the point of not return. 47% of all the global polution is created for this beatiful country with horrible and gready presidents(and friends of these).

Finally, we had a president like Bush, J. Maria Aznar. And yes, we cmade strong criticism for his way to handle the country. Thankfully we finished with his dictatorial ideas. Unfortunally after the terroris of Al-Qaeda killed 191 inocent citizens in Madrid.

Alex

Your right. You pegged me. At this point of my life I am about as open to someone from another country ripping the President as I am to an assraping. I want nothing to do with it. Become a citizen then b*tch away.

PK pretty much covered my thoughts on your lumping Bush in with Hitler and Bin Laden.

Your point about Africa is well taken. But I ask you this. What country is leading the way in sending aid to Africa and what leader has called for the UN to step in and stop the madness there? Money will not stop the main problem,politics. The UN must ask the presidents of these countries to step down: Zimbabwe, Cameroon, Congo-Brazzaville, Uganda, Togo, Angola, Burkina Faso, Central Africa Republic, Rwanda, Chad, Niger, Tunisia etc. Then ask our ally France to stop supporting some of these dictatorial regimes.

Economic governance cannot function in absence of democracy. African leaders must adapt democracy which guarantees the rule of law. The African leaders must abolish the post-colonial constitutions; write new constitutions and move forward with making tons and tons of legislations that will protect every aspect of public life from anti-corruption laws to education, health, environment and most importantly limiting powers as well as the period a head of state will have in an office. I don't think Bush can handle that alone. Blame the UN for Africa's woes.


Sounds as if you blame Maria Aznar for the terriorist attacks on your country. Is it because he stood up to them? Is that why you lumped him in with Bush? His thoughts on how he handled the bombing in your country seem correct in my thinking.

http://www.jcpa.org/brief/brief005-23.htm[quote]

No Appeasement of Terrorism
For me, the decision to have the Spanish troops retreat from Iraq was a mistake. First, this sends a very dangerous message to terrorism: if you attack me in Madrid, I respond with the withdrawal of the Spanish troops from Iraq. This provides a special victory to terrorists. Second, I have a concept of loyalty to allies. Imagine, for example, in World War II after the Allies landed on the beach in Normandy and suddenly one country decides to send its troops home. Third, stabilizing Iraq is a necessity for the stability of freedom in the world. But if the international coalition is defeated in Iraq, the situation in the region will be a catastrophe.

I don't believe in appeasement against terrorism. I don't believe in negotiation with terrorism. I believe in the necessity to fight against terrorists. It is a very serious mistake to negotiate with terrorism. Terrorists should be frightened and defeated, and this is possible. No other policy exists for me.

[/quote]

College football is coming on I gotta go. Good luck with your English.