OT: NFL 2006 Season Discussion

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:12 am

Should have known better than to stay up and watch the Pats. What a horrible game all around. Defense played well except for a couple of long bombs. But Brady looked uncomfortable and completely distrustful of his receivers. Except for that 1 drive, the passing game was a mess and the running game was non-existant. Maybe the Broncos defense is incredible, but I don't think they are on Chicago's level.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:19 am

pk500 wrote:
jLp vAkEr0 wrote:Fire Tom Coughlin.
Cut Jeremy Shockey instead. The guy is a blot on that team. He's TO Lite.

Take care,
PK

Schokey ain't responsible for how undisciplined the WHOLE Giants team is.

That's coaching. Coughlin has said since day 1 that the Giants will have meticulous attention to detail, it hasn't happend. This is the most penalized team in the NFL since Coughlin has been the coach. That ain't Shockey's fault.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:47 am

WillHunting wrote:Should have known better than to stay up and watch the Pats. What a horrible game all around. Defense played well except for a couple of long bombs. But Brady looked uncomfortable and completely distrustful of his receivers. Except for that 1 drive, the passing game was a mess and the running game was non-existant. Maybe the Broncos defense is incredible, but I don't think they are on Chicago's level.

I haven't seen a quarterback whine at his teammates more than Tom Brady since Dan Marino. With Brady, it appears that it's always someone else's fault.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:48 am

jLp vAkEr0 wrote:
pk500 wrote:
jLp vAkEr0 wrote:Fire Tom Coughlin.
Cut Jeremy Shockey instead. The guy is a blot on that team. He's TO Lite.

Take care,
PK
Schokey ain't responsible for how undisciplined the WHOLE Giants team is.

That's coaching. Coughlin has said since day 1 that the Giants will have meticulous attention to detail, it hasn't happend. This is the most penalized team in the NFL since Coughlin has been the coach. That ain't Shockey's fault.

So you're endorsing a player calling out his coach to the media? That IS discipline?

Interesting.

Take care,
PK

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:52 am

pk500 wrote:
jLp vAkEr0 wrote:
pk500 wrote: Cut Jeremy Shockey instead. The guy is a blot on that team. He's TO Lite.

Take care,
PK
Schokey ain't responsible for how undisciplined the WHOLE Giants team is.

That's coaching. Coughlin has said since day 1 that the Giants will have meticulous attention to detail, it hasn't happend. This is the most penalized team in the NFL since Coughlin has been the coach. That ain't Shockey's fault.
So you're endorsing a player calling out his coach to the media? That IS discipline?

Interesting.

Take care,
PK

Pk, I'm not endorsing what Shockey did.

But how can the coaching staff get a free pass with how undisciplined the whole team is?

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:10 am

jLp vAkEr0 wrote:
Pk, I'm not endorsing what Shockey did.

But how can the coaching staff get a free pass with how undisciplined the whole team is?

The coaching staff aren't the ones getting the penalties called against them.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:21 am

Zeppo wrote:
jLp vAkEr0 wrote:
Pk, I'm not endorsing what Shockey did.

But how can the coaching staff get a free pass with how undisciplined the whole team is?
The coaching staff aren't the ones getting the penalties called against them.

Ok, the coaching staff has nothing to do with their players performance on the the field nor with how discipline their players are ON the field.

The coaches get all the glory when their players perform, but can't be held accountable when they don't?

Interesting...

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:26 am

pk500 wrote: I haven't seen a quarterback whine at his teammates more than Tom Brady since Dan Marino. With Brady, it appears that it's always someone else's fault.

Take care,
PK

I have not watched any of the post-game conferences.... so what did Brady whine about?? I thought he is always a classy guy, but I don't follow the team as much as I can since I live in NYC and it is harder to get the Pats perspective here.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:56 am

jLp vAkEr0 wrote:Pk, I'm not endorsing what Shockey did.

But how can the coaching staff get a free pass with how undisciplined the whole team is?

The coaching staff isn't getting a free pass. I'm sure Coughlin is getting ripped wide by the New York print and sports radio media this very morning.

But Shockey is courting anarchy in the Giants' locker room with his continued "me first" antics.

I just find it ironic that you're ripping the coaching staff for lack of discipline yet one of the biggest stars on the team is an undisciplined mofo who shoots his mouth at every opportunity.

Shockey is a bit too precious for my taste, especially since he's a self-styled tough guy.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:59 am

WillHunting wrote:
pk500 wrote: I haven't seen a quarterback whine at his teammates more than Tom Brady since Dan Marino. With Brady, it appears that it's always someone else's fault.

Take care,
PK
I have not watched any of the post-game conferences.... so what did Brady whine about?? I thought he is always a classy guy, but I don't follow the team as much as I can since I live in NYC and it is harder to get the Pats perspective here.

It wasn't after the game; it was during the game. Brady was yelling at his teammates in the huddle, hanging his head constantly and whining on the sidelines, etc., etc.

I know there's a point where you have to kick your teammates' ass during a game as a leader, but it has devolved past that with Brady this year. He whined, pissed and moaned during the entire game against the Bills and did the same last night against the Broncos.

Brady inherited a great situation when he took over as Pats' starter. Now we're seeing how he behaves when the team is going south, and it's not pretty. The guy is a great QB, but I perceive his rants as whining, not leadership. He seems to be pouting more than inspiring or motivating.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:04 am

jLp vAkEr0 wrote:The coaches get all the glory when their players perform, but can't be held accountable when they don't?

Interesting...

Yep, the New York media is really giving Coughlin a free ride:

http://www.nypost.com/sports/giants/its ... _serby.htm

Take care,
PK

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:26 am

Plexico was arguing with a teammate last week too. Looks like the Giants have a couple of loose cannons. Pair that with a young QB and that's not a good situation.

As for Brady, they took away his top 2 WRs because of money so really, his ire should be directed at the coach and management.

What was the deal with Bellichik being court with Mangini after the Jets game? Does he resent that Mangini left the Pats for a head coaching job?

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:44 am

pk500 wrote:It wasn't after the game; it was during the game. Brady was yelling at his teammates in the huddle, hanging his head constantly and whining on the sidelines, etc., etc.

I know there's a point where you have to kick your teammates' ass during a game as a leader, but it has devolved past that with Brady this year. He whined, pissed and moaned during the entire game against the Bills and did the same last night against the Broncos.

Brady inherited a great situation when he took over as Pats' starter. Now we're seeing how he behaves when the team is going south, and it's not pretty. The guy is a great QB, but I perceive his rants as whining, not leadership. He seems to be pouting more than inspiring or motivating.

Take care,
PK

I remember alot of games when the team is losing, he would scream at them. I don't see that as much of a problem or whining, as long as his teammates don't mind. I did noticed that he seems to hang his head and keep looking at the ground as if a miracle WR will magically appear from the grass.

Anyway, his body language isn't good but he isn't making any excuses (that I have read). We will see how this season turns out. Remember the season after the first SB, Brady & company had a pretty bad season and didn't even make the playoffs and they come back to win 2 more. So I think there is hope as long as the team is willing to spend some $$ and replace some of the departed starters.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:49 am

Will:

Brady, unlike Shockey, is keeping his mouth shut publicly. Not surprising, as Shockey has zero class.

But you're right: The head-hanging and constant head-shaking is bad body karma by Brady. A true leader tries to motivate his "troops" during tough times, and I'm not seeing that publicly in the huddle or on the sidelines by Brady right now.

I ask this question sincerely of Packers' fans: Is Favre throwing these kinds of hissy fits and hanging his head all the time on the sidelines since the Packers aren't that good?

Take care,
PK

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:53 am

wco81 wrote:What was the deal with Bellichik being court with Mangini after the Jets game? Does he resent that Mangini left the Pats for a head coaching job?

He went to a division foe and there is much animosity between the 2 teams (Parcells going from Pats to Jets, then brought Curtis Martin over, then Bellichik quit and went to Pats after 1 day, or something ridiculous like that, etc etc etc). And Pats file suit against Jets for tampering with the D. Branch situation. While I am a Pats fan, both teams act like children and cry foul every time something (or not) happens. It is getting ridiculous.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:22 pm

pk500 wrote:I ask this question sincerely of Packers' fans: Is Favre throwing these kinds of hissy fits and hanging his head all the time on the sidelines since the Packers aren't that good?

Take care,
PK

Yes, he hangs his head when they have lost. That' not whining to me, it's caring about winning. What is he supposed to do, go all Richard Simmons on them?

He also chews out recievers on a regular basis. If they f*&ked up, he is going to give 'em an earholefull right there on the field. He does also hand out lots of "atta boys", even to the defenive players when they do something good.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:47 pm

PK...

The Giants better fire Tiki Barber too. He said the same thing last year after the playoff loss...and he's known as one of the best guys in football. Why haven't you mentioned him? There is obviously some sh*t going down in that locker room that we don't know about.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:25 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:PK...

The Giants better fire Tiki Barber too. He said the same thing last year after the playoff loss...and he's known as one of the best guys in football. Why haven't you mentioned him? There is obviously some sh*t going down in that locker room that we don't know about.

No question. But if you're putting Shockey -- I'm not that stupid; you're obviously sticking up for him because he's an ex-Cane -- and Barber in the same character boat, well ...

This isn't the first time Shockey has flown off the handle. It was a rarity for Tiki.

No question the Giants have trouble in the room. But I trust Barber's analysis a hell of a lot more than Shockey's, who would seem to cry and moan to the media if someone put his anti-perspirant in the wrong spot in his locker.

I think Shockey is a "me first" dick, so I guess he's a perfect fit for the Giants.

Take care,
PK

Programmed2Kill · Post by **Programmed2Kill** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:33 pm

That whole Giants team is full of pompous, primadonna pricks. And Coughlin is not the right coach for them. He's not the best coach, nor the easiest coach to deal with. But those players are completely uninterested in anything he says or does. No discipline whatsoever. From Shockey down to even Tiki Barber, whose thrown a couple people under the bus before. That team is a total mess.

And on top of it all, they suck

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:43 pm

On paper, Giants should be okay. They have a lot of playmakers on offense and it's a question of Eli coming into his own.

On defense, they have a stud young DE and a HoF DE on the other side with another potential stud DE waiting to replace him. Plus they added a veteran safety didn't they?

But looking at the highlights, looks like they fell in love with throwing it up and letting Plexico come down with it, since they've made big plays on that the first two games. Those plays led to two early ints and combined with the defense being ineffective, put them in a big hole.

But they came back big in the 4th quarter, after Burress was benched. So I wonder if they went back to fundamentals rather than trying that playground alley-oop stuff that got them into trouble.

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:09 pm

Programmed2Kill wrote:That whole Giants team is full of pompous, primadonna pricks. And Coughlin is not the right coach for them. He's not the best coach, nor the easiest coach to deal with. But those players are completely uninterested in anything he says or does. No discipline whatsoever. From Shockey down to even Tiki Barber, whose thrown a couple people under the bus before. That team is a total mess.

And on top of it all, they suck

And what team isn't really? Guess most of the time we find that out when it comes to guys wanting bigger paydays. I really don't think it's fair to group the whole team under a blanket statement like that.

Seeing you're a Philly homer, my guess is you like the Eagles. I guess if the Giants suck (as you say above), the Eagles must suck more given the way the Giants came back on them last week.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:36 pm

wco81 wrote:But they came back big in the 4th quarter, after Burress was benched. So I wonder if they went back to fundamentals rather than trying that playground alley-oop stuff that got them into trouble.

They came back after the Seahawks mailed in the win. Simply sitting one player does not change the play of the other 21 regular starters that much, especially the defenders.

Looks like the 'Hawks are on their way to another division title and Super Bowl birth

The team I'm most worried about is the Bears. Awesome D, and if Grossman plays even average, that team is tough to beat.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:48 pm

Shockey's got a huge mouth and he's becoming a nightmare for Coughlin. It's a game of emotions allright but he should be more disciplined and keep internal disagreements within the organization. Questioning the whole coaching stuff is quite gutsy. Now what does Coughlin do? Make things worse by suspending him or have a private meeting with Shockey and settle things down?

Now, more importantly how about Hasselbeck's five TD's? Go Seahawks!

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:49 pm

I was not sticking up for Shockey PK...I personally don't like the guy. I didn't like him as a person when he was on the Canes and I don't like him now. Sure, he's a me-first a-hole...but it's not the first time a player on a team has gotten on the coach. My point was that it happens to most organizations at some point...even the best guys in the league (Tiki) do it. There is obviously something going on in that locker room because it doesn't seem like any of the players like Coughlin (I'm sure Plexico is his biggest fan now too).

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:57 pm

I don't think it's a Hurricanes thing necessarily. Winslow Jr. is another vocal TE from the U too.

But these guys were the best players probably since Pop Warner so they've been coddled most of their lives and they're used to getting their way or bitching if they don't. Since Miami goes after and often gets these best players, it seems like there are more problem players from the school.

It's like Chris Webber and the fallout he had with Don Nelson. Regardless of the coach, the talent gets the last word, regardless of whether they're right or not.