360: Success, failure, or other?

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:43 am

The PS3 could end up one of the most expensive flops ever. Sony in the most recent quarter reported a whopping 189 billion yen operating cash flow loss. I have to check the exchange rate but this is probably close to or more than 1 billion US dollars. If a business has negative cash flow of more than one billion dollars in a single quarter, it is not exactly a good thing. They are not likely to go bankrupt anytime soon, but they are burning a lot of cash quickly.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:33 am

Inuyasha wrote:Wayyyyy too much for both consoles these days. If they stop production for xbox/ps2, it'll be interesting to see how many people will buy 360/ps3 at the current prices. I am talking more about the avg consumer than the hardcore gamer. I dont think many avg consumers are willing to buy consoles 400-600 dollars.

They have stopped XBox production. No reason for Sony to stop making the PS2 at this point, though.

But you hit on what has to be the biggest concern for publishers--will this generation expand the market or contract it due to the high cost of entry?

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:57 am

I think the future is bright for the 360 console.. at least I hope it is, since I finally have one now. I've had it for about 3 weeks now and really like just about everything about it. I still don't see why someone can't upload you rosters on LIVE, but I know it's probably about $$$$.

The controller is the best on any console, imo. ..and the ease of the system is great, especially since my 10 yr old and 4 yr old play the heck out of it.

I think as more games start to take advantage of the systems capabilities along with a price reduction, the 360 will take over as one of the premium systems on the market.

AcemanPR · Post by **AcemanPR** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:00 am

It is way too early to access whether the Xbox 360 is a success or failure.

First of all, it is the only next gen console out right now. I guarantee you that alot of people are waiting for the Nintendo Wii and Sony Playstation 3 to launch before they make the jump to the next generation. Even with those two consoles launching this fall, it will be fall of 2007 before we can even consider whether the 360 is a success of failure.

Secondly, the "killer app" 2nd generation titles have yet to be launched on the system. You can probably consider Dead Rising as the start of the 2nd generation, as the developers would have had an additional 9 months development time since the launch of the console. Madden 2007 will be on it's 2nd go around. With Gears of War, Forza 2, Mass Effect, Too Human, and next year Halo 3, those will be the titles that ultimately will determine the early fate of the Xbox 360.

I've been thrilled with my Xbox 360. When I first got the Xbox, I was blown away by the games. I had lower expectations when I received my 360 because I know that you won't get the leap in graphics we once got. Sure, some of my 360 games certainly could be better, but that is part of launch games. The Wii and the PS3 launch games will suffer the same problems. But now the marketplace is starting to be real active, Xbox Live Arcade is jumping, and the games are really starting to stand out as next-gen.

It's going to be fun seeing how this next round of consoles pans out sales wise over the next 12-18 months.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:04 am

XXXIV wrote:Why would any of us care about the sales?...You guys own stock?

If you read the first line in my original post, I said that it is interesting to me. No, it does not affect the enjoyment of any of them, but I like to discuss it.

If you don't care, then why have you alreay made multiple comments in this thread? In fact, if all that matters is playing the games why are you here at all?

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:08 am

XXXIV wrote:What makes it a success or failure is personal...as in your own personal enjoyment.

There are two parts to my post. The second was how people persnoally feel about the 360. The first is, based on the sales figures given, can the 360 be considered a success or failure (or other). For example, if you were in charge of the 360 at MS, would you be happy with the numbers to date? I wouldn't. They promised somethig like 3 million by the end of June. They are 33% short of that mark, and a 5 year old console is till kicking it's butt.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:11 am

LAking wrote:As long as your confident that the console you pick is going to produce the kind of games you enjoy than you should be set, no matter who ultimately sells more units.

Tell that to Dreamcast owners. They got left hanging after only, what, less than 3 years? For some people, spending $400-$600 on a gaming machine is a big deal.

That said, I think all 3 will be around for at least 4 years.

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:27 am

AcemanPR wrote:I've been thrilled with my Xbox 360. When I first got the Xbox, I was blown away by the games. I had lower expectations when I received my 360 because I know that you won't get the leap in graphics we once got. Sure, some of my 360 games certainly could be better, but that is part of launch games.

I find this very interesting. If I was to buy a next generation system, I would raise my expectation, not lower it. I would not pay $400+ (need a game after all) for that. It doesn't make much sense to me. That is one reason why I am not going to buy a 360/PS3/Wii any time soon because there is nothing on it that impresses me or make me want to play.

I am not picking on you, I just find this line of thinking contradictory to my own.

Fshguy · Post by **Fshguy** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:41 am

AcemanPR wrote:Secondly, the "killer app" 2nd generation titles have yet to be launched on the system. You can probably consider Dead Rising as the start of the 2nd generation, as the developers would have had an additional 9 months development time since the launch of the console. Madden 2007 will be on it's 2nd go around. With Gears of War, Forza 2, Mass Effect, Too Human, and next year Halo 3, those will be the titles that ultimately will determine the early fate of the Xbox 360.

I agree with Aceman, this round of games are going to really sell the 360. And combined with the unavailable PS3 this Christmas.

Another issue that will help the 360 will be the platform games, once it's worth it for companies to make it and market them for multiple next gen consoles. I don't think there are many platform games available for the 360 and not all of us(if we still have them) want to drag out the old xbox.

I love the arcade too, not sure if that's a selling point people will realize until they've played some of the games... Besides my girlfriend makes fun of me every time I play a 1980s game on my $400 console.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:03 pm

For me the 360 has been a huge success. The leap in graphics you saw from the PS1 era to the PS2/Xbox era will not be seen for several console cycles IMO, if ever again. So much work is devoted to graphic chips now that they've pretty much tapped out what they can do and the graphical leaps will never be as big. Gaming started to really pick up after the PS1 released so a lot more money and resources were placed into graphics technologies. That's why you saw such a big leap from the PS1 to the PS2. That was the period of time where people were finding out exactly what can be accomplished graphically and the industry finally caught up with the technology. The technological leaps will be smaller now and the leap in graphics will reflect that. But graphics aren't the only thing that makes a game next-gen. AI and gameplay do too.

I've already noticed some strides in the AI of the 360 sports games. Nothing overwhelming but I could definitely notice a difference between the Xbox versions of NBA and NHL 2k. Extensive playtime with Madden and now NCAA confirm to me that the AI has been improved. It still has a way to go but it's getting better. The complexities of the AI routines in Oblivion are amazing. The enemy AI in GRAW is outstanding. Much better than it was on the Xbox. The new Co-op missions they just released are unbelievably tough.

Dead Rising looks to be a mindless hack-n-slash affair but when you watch the extended trailer on the marketplace you discover that the game is offering you an experience that hasn't been done yet. The amount of zombies on screen is awesome and the sheer amount of weapons you can use in the game is mind-blowing. Sure, the type of game has been done before, but it hasn't been done to this extent. What Test Drive Unlimited is striving for hasn't been done either. Driving around Hawaii in single-player mode and actually seeing other players pass you is cool as hell. Being able to challenge them to a race on the fly is cool as hell.

Last, but not least, is the console interface. What you can do from the dashboard is great. Being able to chat with a friend while watching a movie or playing Xbox Live Arcade, or your dynasty game is great. Every game being Live Aware is great. Being able to download game demos and trailers is great. Being able to stream movies and music from my pc is great. Changing themes or setting a picture as the background is great. As great as Xbox Live was on the Xbox it pales in comparison to what you get with the 360. And there's still more to come from future dashboard updates.

To experience what is next-gen about the 360 can't be done by watching movies or reading previews or reviews of the games, it has to be experienced first-hand. And now that the 2nd generation games are starting to show up it's only going to get better.

LAking · Post by **LAking** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:24 pm

matthewk wrote:
LAking wrote:As long as your confident that the console you pick is going to produce the kind of games you enjoy than you should be set, no matter who ultimately sells more units.
Tell that to Dreamcast owners. They got left hanging after only, what, less than 3 years? For some people, spending $400-$600 on a gaming machine is a big deal.

That said, I think all 3 will be around for at least 4 years.

Um, that's why i mentioned the dreamcast in my post. Dreamcast didn't have enough 3rd party support and that's pretty much why it failed. Sega didn't have EA, enough said. I absolutely guarentee that the 360 will not stop production after just three years like the dreamcast did.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:38 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:Last, but not least, is the console interface. What you can do from the dashboard is great. Being able to chat with a friend while watching a movie or playing Xbox Live Arcade, or your dynasty game is great. Every game being Live Aware is great. Being able to download game demos and trailers is great. Being able to stream movies and music from my pc is great. Changing themes or setting a picture as the background is great. As great as Xbox Live was on the Xbox it pales in comparison to what you get with the 360. And there's still more to come from future dashboard updates.

To experience what is next-gen about the 360 can't be done by watching movies or reading previews or reviews of the games, it has to be experienced first-hand. And now that the 2nd generation games are starting to show up it's only going to get better.

I could not agree more. Thanks for saving me the time to type it.

You can't appreciate the XBL interface until you use it. Here was my night last night:

- scheduled to play squid, he can't show. BUT, I see Zeppo is playing Oblivion so I sent him a text message to see if he wants to play. He texts me back that he wants to play and that I am the home team.
- During the game squid sends me a message explaining why he couldn't play.
- After my game with Zeppo, I see Squid is online in WE so I fire it up. IF HE WAS ON THE 360 I COULD HAVE SENT HIM A TEXT OR VOICE MESSAGE.
- I have trouble connecting with Squid. IF THIS GAME WAS ON 360 I COULD JUST CHAT WITH HIM and we could troubleshoot.
- Squid logs off. I send an invite to Jack. He doesn't respond so I go back to the dashboard. Exchange some email/voicemail with Rob. Jack sends me an invite so I go back to WE. I "lose" the invite so I'm not sure what happens.
- I see Jack playing MotoGP so I sent him an invite for WE. IF HE WAS ON 360 WE COULD JUST CHAT AND SETUP A GAME.
- In the XBL interface in WE9 for Xbox, I can't even see what the score is or what people are doing. On 360 I can see the score and how much time is remaining. Are they watcing a movie? Are they in dynasty mode or "play now."

The new XBL integration, HD graphics, improved controller, downloadable demos, wireless controllers with limited wires for voice, etc. is *exactly* what I expected from the next generation and I'm totally happy.

It doesn't hurt that NBA2K6, Moto GP 2006, Oblivion, Top Spin, Fight Night R3, NCAA 07, COD2 have been my favorite games in those genres either in just 8 months.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:46 pm

I guess none of the Live features affects me because I'm usually a gaming hermit. I go online occasionally, but 99% of my time is spent playing solo, with my son, or with friends who are physically in the same room as I am.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:02 pm

matthewk wrote:
XXXIV wrote:Why would any of us care about the sales?...You guys own stock?
If you read the first line in my original post, I said that it is interesting to me. No, it does not affect the enjoyment of any of them, but I like to discuss it.

If you don't care, then why have you alreay made multiple comments in this thread? In fact, if all that matters is playing the games why are you here at all?

Im amazed that you took that personally....

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:02 pm

Sorry Leeb....wanna play tonite (Thurs)? 10:30 EST?

Leebo33 wrote:
ScoopBrady wrote:Last, but not least, is the console interface. What you can do from the dashboard is great. Being able to chat with a friend while watching a movie or playing Xbox Live Arcade, or your dynasty game is great. Every game being Live Aware is great. Being able to download game demos and trailers is great. Being able to stream movies and music from my pc is great. Changing themes or setting a picture as the background is great. As great as Xbox Live was on the Xbox it pales in comparison to what you get with the 360. And there's still more to come from future dashboard updates.

To experience what is next-gen about the 360 can't be done by watching movies or reading previews or reviews of the games, it has to be experienced first-hand. And now that the 2nd generation games are starting to show up it's only going to get better.
I could not agree more. Thanks for saving me the time to type it.

You can't appreciate the XBL interface until you use it. Here was my night last night:

- scheduled to play squid, he can't show. BUT, I see Zeppo is playing Oblivion so I sent him a text message to see if he wants to play. He texts me back that he wants to play and that I am the home team.
- During the game squid sends me a message explaining why he couldn't play.
- After my game with Zeppo, I see Squid is online in WE so I fire it up. IF HE WAS ON THE 360 I COULD HAVE SENT HIM A TEXT OR VOICE MESSAGE.
- I have trouble connecting with Squid. IF THIS GAME WAS ON 360 I COULD JUST CHAT WITH HIM and we could troubleshoot.
- Squid logs off. I send an invite to Jack. He doesn't respond so I go back to the dashboard. Exchange some email/voicemail with Rob. Jack sends me an invite so I go back to WE. I "lose" the invite so I'm not sure what happens.
- I see Jack playing MotoGP so I sent him an invite for WE. IF HE WAS ON 360 WE COULD JUST CHAT AND SETUP A GAME.
- In the XBL interface in WE9 for Xbox, I can't even see what the score is or what people are doing. On 360 I can see the score and how much time is remaining. Are they watcing a movie? Are they in dynasty mode or "play now."

The new XBL integration, HD graphics, improved controller, downloadable demos, wireless controllers with limited wires for voice, etc. is *exactly* what I expected from the next generation and I'm totally happy.

It doesn't hurt that NBA2K6, Moto GP 2006, Oblivion, Top Spin, Fight Night R3, NCAA 07, COD2 have been my favorite games in those genres either in just 8 months.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:33 pm

JackB1 wrote:Sorry Leeb....wanna play tonite (Thurs)? 10:30 EST?

Not your fault! Yes, I'll play!

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:57 am

XXXIV wrote:Im amazed that you took that personally....

I amazed myself that I took something you said seriously. Don't worry, it won't happen again.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:11 am

matthewk wrote:
XXXIV wrote:Im amazed that you took that personally....
I amazed myself that I took something you said seriously. Don't worry, it won't happen again.

Class....You cant buy it.

kicko · Post by **kicko** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:13 am

what would be good for the 360 is that if there was price drop just as the ps3 comes out, but someone like me who has never owned a xbox and remain loyal to my ps2, at this point in time where money is harder to hold it would be an easy choice for me to get in the next gen of gaming..... 360

vader29 · Post by **vader29** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:11 pm

kicko wrote:what would be good for the 360 is that if there was price drop just as the ps3 comes out, but someone like me who has never owned a xbox and remain loyal to my ps2, at this point in time where money is harder to hold it would be an easy choice for me to get in the next gen of gaming..... 360

Doesn't look like there will be a price drop but they have a premium bundle that releases in Canada on the 9th that includes PGR3, 1250 marketplace points and 3 months of XBL gold all for the same price of the current premium system.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/prodde ... FS10077602

pigpen81 · Post by **pigpen81** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:51 pm

Interesting read here, Top Ten reasons the 360 has already won:

http://www.productwiki.com/microsoft_xb ... erica.html

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:50 pm

I am starting to have my doubts about the build quality of the current 360's. I just replaced my second one I replaced my first one with in April. I just picked up my 3rd 360, but I had to pay another $44.95 for the extended warranty at CompUSA. This is starting to get expensive. I hope this machine lasts until the .65 nm versions start shipping. I told the CompUSA manager whom I have become friends with that the next warranty is on CompUSA/MS. Ridiculous having to replace a machine like this 3 times in less than a year....

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:58 am

I am with you about the build quality. First one went in April, second one in august. I treat the damn thing like it was an egg - plenty of ventilation, etc. No problems with other consoles or PCs, so I just can't imagine it is any sort of user error. Either bad luck or bad hardware. It takes away from the enjoyment knowing that the game could come to a sudden 3 week halt at any time.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:24 am

kevinpars wrote:I am with you about the build quality. First one went in April, second one in august. I treat the damn thing like it was an egg - plenty of ventilation, etc. No problems with other consoles or PCs, so I just can't imagine it is any sort of user error. Either bad luck or bad hardware. It takes away from the enjoyment knowing that the game could come to a sudden 3 week halt at any time.

The only saving grace for me is that I can have a brand new 360 up and running in 30-40 minutes because of the warranty at CompUSA. However, I do pay for that each time a 360 dies and the first time I did not mind so much, but this time it is getting my attention and while I can afford to keep doing it, I am thinking these units have some serious issues that need to be resolved for the long-term. Good thing I have NHL 07 to play now and Tiger 07 coming out next month or that machine would likely be collecting dust....

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:48 am

Update from MS for all 360 owners:

http://forums.xbox.com/5/6916948/ShowPost.aspx#6916948

This seems legit and if true, maybe MS is owning up to the fact that the build quality of the 360 is not anywhere near what it should be....

Interesting to see if MS posts this information through normal press/media channels....