OT: NBA 2005-2006 Season Discussion

SoMisss2000 · Post by **SoMisss2000** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:32 am

Feanor wrote:How many of those FTs were because of the hack-a-Shaq?

I don't know but Wade shot as many as the Mavs entire team.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:43 pm

SoMisss2000 wrote:
Feanor wrote:How many of those FTs were because of the hack-a-Shaq?
I don't know but Wade shot as many as the Mavs entire team.

Yeah, but you do realize that if they are just hacking the crap out of Shaq every time he touches the ball down low, the Heat get in the penalty real quick...hence more free throws no matter when the foul is given. And it sure as hell seems like that was the main reason because with 6 min. left in the game, every one of Dallas' big men were in foul trouble. THAT is why there is such a big free throw discrepancy.

SoMisss2000 · Post by **SoMisss2000** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:15 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
SoMisss2000 wrote:
Feanor wrote:How many of those FTs were because of the hack-a-Shaq?
I don't know but Wade shot as many as the Mavs entire team.
Yeah, but you do realize that if they are just hacking the crap out of Shaq every time he touches the ball down low, the Heat get in the penalty real quick...hence more free throws no matter when the foul is given. And it sure as hell seems like that was the main reason because with 6 min. left in the game, every one of Dallas' big men were in foul trouble. THAT is why there is such a big free throw discrepancy.

I'm aware of what Hack-A-Shaq does, however, my issue is how no contact is allowed when Wade drives to the basket. Yet on two occasions, the O Great One fouled Harris on a drive to the bucket and bumped the hell out of Dirk on the baseline and no call is made. If you're letting contact go on one end, one should be able to look at Wade without a whistle.

We all will rue the day LeBron makes it to the Finals against your favorite teams. Your guys will already have 3 fouls coming out of the locker room.

Glad that Reggie Miller acknowledged that Wade is getting the benefit of the doubt. He even went so far as to say that he's getting "Jordan" calls. He tried to tip-toe around Dan Patrick's question today but Dan asked him again and gave his opinion. It's about time someone from the national media speaks up.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:43 pm

Greg Anthony questioned ending a crucial game on a call.

Tim Legler said he didn't see a foul on the play.

The "hard-hitting" Steven A. Smith asked Wade if he was fouled on the last play. Wade said yes but didn't elaborate and Smith didn't pursue it.

Playing hoops at noon, guys were joking about Dwayne Wade fouls.

The reason the Mavs were pissed is everyone to a man knew they were jobbed.

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:52 pm

Superstars (whether Wade is or not....well, avg 40+/game in the final validates him as a rising star IMO) always get the benefit of the doubt. Always, that is just how NBA works. Adrian Griffin will never get the benefit of the doubt, EVER.

SoMisss2000 · Post by **SoMisss2000** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:57 pm

wco81 wrote:Greg Anthony questioned ending a crucial game on a call.

Tim Legler said he didn't see a foul on the play.

The "hard-hitting" Steven A. Smith asked Wade if he was fouled on the last play. Wade said yes but didn't elaborate and Smith didn't pursue it.

Playing hoops at noon, guys were joking about Dwayne Wade fouls.

The reason the Mavs were pissed is everyone to a man knew they were jobbed.

And now Mavs fans are whiney. Look, we choked game 3 and got our asses whipped in game 4. In game 5, we got robbed. No vaseline, K-Y, etc., was used. There was a backcourt violation right in front of the referee, a pushoff on wade, a grabbing of Howard's shorts on wade, none of it called. However, the get drew the foul going to the basket.

EDiddy · Post by **EDiddy** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:59 pm

FYI, for an over the back violation the ball itself must completly cross into the back court. One can stradle the half court line and legally hold the ball in the front court with no violation. And for the last 50 years, at any level of basketball, if an offensive player get a deffensive player on his hip, a foul will be called. Fair, proably not, it is what it is.

Dallas let Dwaye dribble betweem three of their defenders before the foul, and then they pulled a CWebb. Does not sound like a team who deserved to win to me. Not trying to flame any Dallas fans as your team is outstanding and proably will stay outstanding for a while, but it is kinda lame to blame a lose on one or two plays, even though we all do in all sports.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:49 am

I was able to watch the end of the game on ESPN classic last night. I went to bed after regulation the night before, so I never saw the overtime.

Here's my take on what transpired:

The inbounds sure looked like a backcourt violation, ubt I'm not up on the specifics of the rule. Wade was in the frontcourt running around, the ball was passed to him, and he appeared to have caught it in the frontcourt and drifted in the backcourt. The image above does not really show what happened. Wade was at least 5 feet in the backcourt and dribbed a few tiems before returning to the frontcourt. Right after that, you could see the Dallas coaches jumping around like madmen. I'm guessing they thought it was a violation right away the way they were acting.

edit: It didn't look like Wade had established possesion with the ball in the frontcourt when he got the inbounds pass. He kind of got it while drifting into the backcourt. If someone knows the details of the rule, this might clear this issue up.

The timeout was called by Howard. Johnson was signaling to him to call one, but he meant to call it after the 2nd shot. Howard messed up and called it right away. THat was very clear.

The foul call was typical NBA B.S. Give the star player free reign to charge into the lane, knowing full well he'll get some kind of call. He did grab Harri's shorts in getting around him too. Oh, and the call was on Dirk, who never even touched Wade. I love Wade, but I hate it when the NBA makes calls like that. It's why I didn't watch any regular season games, and only started watching the playoffs when it got to the conference finals.

2nd edit: Miss, could you please edit your post and remove that large image? It really messes up reading this thread.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:31 am

I'd like to thank the NBA again for the late starts in the Eastern time zone and the lack of games on Friday or Saturday night. I've barely seen any of the Finals, you bastards.

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:50 am

Leebo33 wrote:I'd like to thank the NBA again for the late starts in the Eastern time zone and the lack of games on Friday or Saturday night. I've barely seen any of the Finals, you bastards.

Good point, I have to turn off the TV and go to bed around the 3rd quarter.... stupid. At least the news actually cover the NBA, unlike the World Cup.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:35 am

Leebo33 wrote:I'd like to thank the NBA again for the late starts in the Eastern time zone and the lack of games on Friday or Saturday night. I've barely seen any of the Finals, you bastards.

GB David Stern. 6PM PDT is plenty early enough

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:03 pm

I'd kill to have games start at 5 or 6PM. I'd love to be able to listen to games on my 45 minute commute home. It would also be very easy for me to record the game and avoid catching the score on the ride home. I would have the choice of "catching up" to real time or watching it later in the evening. Worst case scenario is that I would miss the first half of a game.

On the east coast I have the option of recording the second half or 4th quarter of games, but trying to make it through an entire day is almost impossible without hearing the score. If it's a big game or my favorite team, I will stay up and watch it but I miss a ton of games that I would otherwise enjoy.

Did the conference finals start after 9PM ET? I watched a lot of those games.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:22 pm

I think it's ABC wanting to put the games on prime time on the East Coast, now that the TV season is over.

The other playoff games were on TNT and ESPN and they probably didn't dictate the schedules to the teams as much.

SoMisss2000 · Post by **SoMisss2000** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:28 pm

Former NBA Official, Mike Mathis, was on locally this morning...he retired back in 2002

I know yall are tired of hearing "whining" from Mavs fans, however, maybe you'll consider the opinion of a former NBA Official.

Mike Mathis, 21-year official and 12-time finals official was on The Ticket in Dallas this morning and he pretty much RIPPED officiating in the last game, but mostly ripped current officiating in general. He said the biggest problem with officiating today is that there is no impartiality. Every official knows somebody. He referred to it as the good ol' boy system. There are far too many 50+-year old referees who were not qualified to be NBA officials 20 years ago and were turned down but now they're officials. He said the standard for a referee is to grade out to about 90%. Mathis stated that he grades them out to be working at about 50%-60% (This, i'm not sure I agree with, that is too low).

Anyways about the final minute of play. Mathis stated that they are trained to not let the game end on a technicality. He said he DOES NOT subscribe to the theory of "swallowing the whistle" at the end of games. However, he said if a foul is called in the final moments of the game, it better be blatantly obvious that a foul occurred on the play. He said the defender better be grabbed by the neck and slammed to the floor...lol. Mathis went on to say that there should be NO QUESTION as to whether a foul occurred. He said touch fouls in that situation don't qualify. It has to be something visibile to God, the officials, and the fans.

On the Wade foul, he said that should not have been called. Mathis said that it was painfully obvious that Wade had already decided that he was going going all the way to the basket to attempt a shot. Since Wade was pretty much out of control on that attempt, no way that call should be made.

He pretty much defended the over and back no call. I can live with that.

On the timeout situation, he ripped into the 3 officials. He said they should've gotten that right. He said they are trained to make sure that communication is clear. He said they are trained in situations like that to make sure that the directions are clear. Mathis stated they should've cleared it up with Avery Johnson. He said, in a game of that magnitude, it should've been no problem to basically "cancel the timeout". All they had to do is explain it to Riley who should have no problem with it as he would expect the same courtesy. Mathis stated they failed to get it right. He gave an example of having a guy bring the ball up the floor and giving a T-signal and he called a timeout. The player says no, that's our T-play. No problem, sideline out of bound.

Finally, he again stated that there is a problem and that Mark Cuban is pretty close to figuring out what's going on.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:33 pm

Holy crap...stop already. Every sport has sh*tty officiating. Did you see me complain when Nash got butt raped by Luke Walton...not once but twice allowing Kobe to hit two shots to win the game....no. I accept the fact that the Suns should have been in better shape at the end of the game and that Nash made the mistake in relying on the official to make the call. You just can't rely on officials these days.

Seahawk fans are complaining about the Super Bowl. Angel fans are complaining about the ALCS...it happens in EVERY sport. Crappy officials are part of the game. The only way to win a game is to dominate it.

The Mavs wouldn't have had to deal with all of this had they hit their free throws at the end of regulation and in OT. THAT is why they lost. The officials didn't help them at all, but they lost because they could hit the easiest shot possible during a game.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:49 pm

Nash gets favorable officiating. So does Stoudemire, the way he's allowed to dig his head into the chest of the defenders to create space or basically allowed to jump on defenders backs to get offensive rebounds.

There's a difference between crappy or incompetent officiating and lack of impartiality. Or even having different standards for stars in the first place.

NFL officiating is crappy but impartiality isn't an issue. NFL has no problems getting ratings and they don't have to worry about getting enough playoff games on national TV to deliver the best returns possible on the TV contract.

NBA has to continually prove its value to TV because it's closer to the NHL than the NBA in terms of TV popularity.

SoMisss2000 · Post by **SoMisss2000** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:09 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Holy crap...stop already. Every sport has sh*tty officiating. Did you see me complain when Nash got butt raped by Luke Walton...not once but twice allowing Kobe to hit two shots to win the game....no. I accept the fact that the Suns should have been in better shape at the end of the game and that Nash made the mistake in relying on the official to make the call. You just can't rely on officials these days.

Seahawk fans are complaining about the Super Bowl. Angel fans are complaining about the ALCS...it happens in EVERY sport. Crappy officials are part of the game. The only way to win a game is to dominate it.

The Mavs wouldn't have had to deal with all of this had they hit their free throws at the end of regulation and in OT. THAT is why they lost. The officials didn't help them at all, but they lost because they could hit the easiest shot possible during a game.

sorry if you don't appreciate the opinion of an actual NBA Ref. Mavs fans are so pissed because what is at stake. If it were game 2 of the West Semifinals, i'm sure the uproar wouldn't be as loud.

SoMisss2000 · Post by **SoMisss2000** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:13 pm

wco81 wrote:Nash gets favorable officiating. So does Stoudemire, the way he's allowed to dig his head into the chest of the defenders to create space or basically allowed to jump on defenders backs to get offensive rebounds.

There's a difference between crappy or incompetent officiating and lack of impartiality. Or even having different standards for stars in the first place.

NFL officiating is crappy but impartiality isn't an issue. NFL has no problems getting ratings and they don't have to worry about getting enough playoff games on national TV to deliver the best returns possible on the TV contract.

NBA has to continually prove its value to TV because it's closer to the NHL than the NBA in terms of TV popularity.

Joe Morgan was on Patrick today. He said after he won his first MVP, he believes he got superstar calls. He said he had an umpire tell him, when asked about no called strikes on close pitches for Willie Mays, that people don't come pay money to see Mays strike out.

The root of the problem is the Superstar calls. It should not exist. That is what's so frustrating.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:18 pm

I just saw this column:

As much as I enjoy watching Wade, a Heat title would erase all the progress of this spring. The Heat don't play well together offensively, they don't bring the best out of one another ... they uneasily co-exist for the sake of a larger purpose (an elusive championship). Just watch some of their guys during the average game. Does Shaq ever seem happy? Walker? Payton? Posey? It's a 1990s team playing in a different decade, only Wade is so freaking good, they're getting away with it and, hell, they might even win a championship.

As a basketball fan, I think this would be terrible. A tragedy, even. Nothing against Wade -- after all, it isn't his fault his team sucks and he has to play this way -- but seeing an individual triumph over a team YET AGAIN would erase every positive outcome from the 2005-06 season. Basically, the team with LeBron or Wade will win the next 10-12 titles, and it will come down to which guy made more 20-footers with two guys on him and which guy got the most cheap calls from the most spineless referees. That's not basketball, it's a star system. When my wife was asking why I was so ticked off after Game 5, it wasn't because I had money on the game (I didn't), or because I liked one team more than the other (I don't). If Miami wins, we may as well go back to box haircuts again, because it's going to be 1991 all over again -- the "New and Improved" NBA will have been defeated, and the Old-School NBA will reign supreme.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ons/060620

SoMisss2000 · Post by **SoMisss2000** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:14 pm

wow. good article.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:59 pm

Bah... Go Mavs! To all of the local numbnuts, don't forget to go to Mavs.com for the chance to win tickets to Game 7 (if necessary)... Cuban is giving away 1000 seats if the game comes to pass!

SoMisss2000 · Post by **SoMisss2000** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:05 pm

Kazuya wrote:Bah... Go Mavs! To all of the local numbnuts, don't forget to go to Mavs.com for the chance to win tickets to Game 7 (if necessary)... Cuban is giving away 1000 seats if the game comes to pass!

I think they changed it to 500 because Cuban fears that they would be sold by the winners if it goes 7.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:23 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Seahawk fans are complaining about the Super Bowl. Angel fans are complaining about the ALCS...it happens in EVERY sport. Crappy officials are part of the game. The only way to win a game is to dominate it.

It must be the exception, because I thought the officiating in the Stanley Cup Finals was excellent. No complaints here, even though the Oilers lost. Part of that is because the NHL eliminated the subjective "gray area" for refs and told them to call everything for the first time this season, regular season and playoffs.

That "gray area" probably still exists in the NBA and MLB strike zones, for better or worse.

Take care,
PK

SoMisss2000 · Post by **SoMisss2000** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:32 pm

pk500 wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:Seahawk fans are complaining about the Super Bowl. Angel fans are complaining about the ALCS...it happens in EVERY sport. Crappy officials are part of the game. The only way to win a game is to dominate it.
It must be the exception, because I thought the officiating in the Stanley Cup Finals was excellent. No complaints here, even though the Oilers lost. Part of that is because the NHL eliminated the subjective "gray area" for refs and told them to call everything for the first time this season, regular season and playoffs.

That "gray area" probably still exists in the NBA and MLB strike zones, for better or worse.

Take care,
PK

The gray area in the NBA=$$$$$$. They can't let that be effected. NBA fans to pay to see the superstars foul out and have terrible games. That's the biggest problem. Stern has the audacity to be upset with the amount of complaining about the officiating. Obviously, there is a problem Mr. Stern, people aren't blind or stupid.

I like how Patrick asked him today whether he would consider making officials available for comment post game and he quickly dismissed the idea.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:57 pm

SoMisss2000 wrote:I think they changed it to 500 because Cuban fears that they would be sold by the winners if it goes 7.

The website says 500 pair. Semantics I know... 500 winners, 1000 tickets.