Looking to buy a Mac

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue May 30, 2006 12:53 pm

I know some of you out there have a Mac and I wanted some advise on what I should get.

Here's what I primarily use my comp for...
Internet
Some word, excel and access though most of that is done at work.
Football Manager
Music and MP3 (not an ipod) use
WE patching

If I'm lucky I would like my computer to do this...
Use windows - I wonder how good Mac run Windows on boot camp. I'm no techie so I don't know how good it is.
Maybe use the windows version to fire up some PC games. Like OOTP, MVP and other PC games.

Right now I'm looking at the iMac 20" version. I think the Powermac is for graphics instensive use so that's more than I need. I have to fix my Dell Laptop screen and I wonder how much that's going to cost but I don't use a laptop all that much so I think a ibook wouldn't be right.

What would you guys recommend on the specs in terms of ram, memory other options. And would you recommend getting a Mac.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:12 pm

A couple of weeks ago, I took the plunge finally on a Mac and although I was totally new to the Tiger OS it was the boot-camp option that decided my purchase instead of the Sony Vaio. I got the Macbook Pro, a beautiful 15.4 inch monitor, 2-1 GHz, duo core, 100GB of HD space-7200RPM, with 1G of memory. The video card I think is by ATI 256MB VRAM.

Boot -Camp is in a beta stage, but I had no problem installing XP (it has to be SP2), just a couple of things keep popping up when I start windows such as the USB hardware menu (it keeps looking for its drivers) and I read somewhere that the sound is at default, not being able to adjust it yet. I haven't had time to go there yet, but when I rebooted the laptop back to Mac, I loved it. The interface, software, screen, dashboard, etc.

If you're into a laptop, Apple just came up with a smaller screen, 13 inch I think, and it also comes in black instead of the white or silver case.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:39 pm

The iMac is probably the best value among these Intel Macs. Of course, laptops give you more convenience, as you can move around the house or take it on the road if necessary. But you pay for the mobility.

The MacBook is the entry-level notebook and doesn't have dedicated video card and VRAM.

MacBook Pro is the "pro" notebook so it has larger screen and a dedicated GPU and VRAM (ATI X1600 Mobility).

If you want any kinds of games, you would want a dedicated GPU, which are in the iMac and the MacBook Pros. But remember, these models both use mobile GPUs so don't have real high expectations on 3D-intensive games, even under Windows XP.

If you're buying from apple.com, I wouldn't load up RAM or bigger hard drive from them. You could probably buy RAM cheaper and install yourself. Not sure how easy it is to install the RAM. Probably a good idea to get at least 1 GB of RAM. As for a bigger hard drive, not sure how easy it is to install a bigger drive yourself. If nothing else, you can get an external firewire or USB 2.0 drive later for a couple of hundred dollars. Good way to back up your drive this way, as well as add more space.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:59 pm

WCO:
Thanks for that info...

In terms of 3d games, I'm not looking at trying to run FPS shooters at full detail. Mostly games that I missed because of my PC like Civ or games like it. If I'm lucky maybe Tiger but that is a graphic intensive game. What is a 3d intensive game these days?

I have a laptop and just need to get the screen fixed, which will probably run me as much as new CPU.

The MacBook pro are out of my price range this go around. A 17 inch model is 2,600. The 20" iMac is 1600.

Should I updrage the graphics chip. They base model is listed with
ATI Radeon X1600/128MB VRAM
ATI Radeon X1600/256MB VRAM [Add $75]

I hate purchasing new computers, it makes one feel stupid trying to piece together a new cpu.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:04 pm

Also, can you what memory option is better?

512MB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 1x512
1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512 [Add $100]
1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 1x1GB [Add $100]
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB [Add $300]

Hopefully if a get the base model there I will be able to upgrade ram.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:15 pm

For what it's worth, I made the Windows to Mac switch last year and will NEVER look back!

I owned a Sony VAIO and really liked it, but last November I got the 20" iMac and it was the best electronic purchase I have made in years. Seriously.

My main use for it is internet, pictures, music (iPod, iTunes and now Garageband), and now small creative projects for me and the entire family using iMovie and iDVD along with the other iLife programs like iWeb ect...

I just helped my fiancee's daughter (2nd grade) do a school project using Garageband, iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie and iDVD and burned a DVD slideshow with her saying facts about the subject (Peter Jackson) while displaying pictures along with music and cool transitions and titles & credits. The class absolutely loved it and the teacher liked it so much she took it home to show her family.

It would have taken me three times as long to do that same project on a Windows machine (excluding any freezes and incompatibility issues and errors). With the MAC it was entirely seemless, intuitive and easy. Not sure what your family situation is Jrod, but if you have younger kids, the simplicity of the MAC and the iLife programs enables you to do some really fun, creative things with them.

Another example is the songs that I recorded in Garageband with an entire birthday party of 8 year olds making their own lyrics up and singing to stock music (loops) in Garageband. I then burned all the participating kids a CD of all the songs for their party favor to take home. Again, it's not that I could never have done that on a PC, but it just would not have been nearly as simple, quick and intuitive IMO.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:21 pm

I believe the extra VRAM might help in some games, both Mac and Windows. What is a 3D-intensive game? Aren't Tiger and MVP pretty intensive for 3D? Madden too?

Or games like WoW or Battlefield?

But I wouldn't expect too much out of these or games like Half-Life, Crysis, etc. Maybe there's a local Apple store where they might have Boot Camp set up. I admit I'm not sure how well games work through Boot Camp.

I think the main benefit of the extra VRAM might be if you hook up an external monitor to have an expanded desktop. I believe the iMac supports up to a 1920x1200 external LCD monitor.

As for RAM, I'm sure you can find cheaper prices for the RAM (I just quick-checked Crucia.com under their "Mac" section and their prices are higher but there are also other brands). I don't know if dual-channel is supported, where having 2 DIMMs of same size would be better than having 1 DIMM.

If you get two 512 MB DIMMs for a total of 1 GB, it might be faster than having just one 1 GB DIMM in one bank. However, later, you would be able to buy another 1 GB DIMM to double the memory to 2 GB fairly easily whereas if you have the two 512 MB DIMMs, then you might have to buy two 1 GB DIMMs and replace the 512 MB DIMMs altogether, which is kind of a waste. But having two equal DIMMs might give you better performance if the mobo supports dual-channel.

HipE · Post by **HipE** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:23 pm

I think you might have just missed Amazon's $150 rebate they were offering on 20 inch Imac's, I believe it just ended today. I bought a 17 inch Core Duo from them a couple of months ago, it came with a $125 mail in rebate and free shipping with no sales tax, which brought the total down to $1175. I haven't installed XP on it, so I can't help you there. I can tell you it is very easy to install ram in it though, as I purchased an extra 512 mb stick from Other World Computing for around 50 bucks and had no problems putting it in. The only game I play on it is World of Warcraft, and I'm able to max all the settings and still get 30 fps outdoors and 60 fps indoors.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue May 30, 2006 6:23 pm

Spooky you sold me. I was on the fence about buying it.

I will not use it as much for graphics as you but who knows. Mostly I needed a desktop for internet and other features. Basically everything a Mac does now. I'm not a hardcore PC gamer so I don't need a CPU for that. As long as Football Manager runs fast, i'm golden.

If this one has 2 good years and 1-2 more "get-by" years that is what I really am asking for. My dell is 3-4 years old so that's about the lifecyle of a PC for me.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue May 30, 2006 6:27 pm

Well the PS3 is suppose to have Internet features.

But who knows how good their browser will be.

Won't run Football Manager unless they come out with a console version.

Also, there are a lot of hackers trying to crack the X360 so they can run their own software (as well as backups of course).

Arkin710 · Post by **Arkin710** » Tue May 30, 2006 6:28 pm

Football Manager does run very well on my Macbook Pro 2.16 ghz, 2 gigs memory, and 256 megs vram. Plus OOTP 6 will be coming out on the Mac for the first time.

maddoc1979 · Post by **maddoc1979** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:00 pm

I've got a MacBook Pro as well and absolutely love it. We've now got 2 macs and 1 pc in the house and I find myself gravitating further and further towards the macs as I use them more (we originally bought the mac for my wife).

If you google 'boot camp' and half-life 2, you can see a video on youtube of an imac running Half-life 2 via boot camp, and I have to say, it runs pretty well. So if you're just running the software you mentioned, I'm certainly it will run well.

Doc

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Tue May 30, 2006 7:05 pm

I just got the 15" MacBook Pro and couldn't be happier (though this is like my 8th Mac in 2 years - I have a problem). I have a dual G5 PowerMac and this laptop leaves it in the dust, it's screaming fast. I just installed PARALLELS to run Windows XP, and it's the fastest XP machine I've ever used as well.

Parallels will run any version of Windows, while BootCamp requires XP SP2. Boot camp gains graphics acceleration while Parallels does not; Parallels runs at native speed (it's not emulation) within OSX, so you don't have to reboot.

All that said, I really have no need for Windows. There is virtually nothing I can't do better in OSX than on Windows, except gaming - and that's what my XBox360 is for.

Welcome to the club. Send me a PM if you need any tips etc. Same goes for any of the other DSP Mac users.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Wed May 31, 2006 8:06 am

Sorry I don't share the enthusiasm of most mac users here. I purchased one about a year ago and truthfully they're ok. I'm finding myself using my PC more than my mac.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Wed May 31, 2006 8:52 am

One of the greatest things about a Mac is that unlike Windows, which allows applications to clutter your entire OS with .dll's and other support files, Mac apps are typically entirely self-contained. The .app has everything needed to run that program (it can even be copied from computer to computer in many cases), and de-install is as simple as dragging it to the trash.

Some programs I use:

MS Office ($179)
iWork ($99)
Adium (free multi-protocol chat client)
OSXVNC (free remote login utility)
Chicken of the VNC (free remote login client)
Google Earth
Acquisition (P2P client)
Handbrake (Free DVD ripping software - great for creating iPod or PSP ready movies)
MacJanitor (Free 'clean up' utility; purges cashes etc.)
VLC; MPlayer (Free wmv and other format movie playback)

I use the included iLife Suite for Photo, Music, Movies, Podcasts, Music recording etc.; the value of iLife is simply incredible.
Use Mail for e-mail
iCal for calendar
iChat for Video chat
Adress Book for addresses. etc. OSX's built in apps are terrific. The value is even greater if you subscribe to .Mac, allowing you to share files, host a website, or sync all of your stuff between multiple Macs.

PS> Hold the shift key when minimizing a window, or when pressing F9 to envoke Epose; a cool effect...

The average consumer wouldn't need to buy ONE additional piece of software to perform everything they want in a computer when buying a Mac; it's all included and ALL superior to anything available for Windows.

PSS> Don't forget about SPOTLIGHT; the built in meta-data search utility can help you find anything you need in an instant, including 'settings' etc. Apple key+Spacebar brings up the search tool. Every file and every word within those files (or in the file properties) is indexed and searched in an instant.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Wed May 31, 2006 10:58 am

The reason I went to a Mac isn't for gaming. I'm a console gamer at heart and have never gotten into PC games, with the exception of a few that were sports games.

I mostly use mine for music. The only thing I wish Apple did was have a music subsription service for iTunes. I'm listening to more music on rhapsody then ever before. The conversion to the Mac will be a little painful since I don't have an ipod. But I'll figure it out.

As long as it runs windows to do some thigns I'll be okay.

Sport where can I find a link for parallels.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:16 pm

Sport,

Can you recommend a rather inexpensive external dvd burner?

I knew I should have ponied up and gotten the super drive when I purchased my IMac. Oh well.

Thanks.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:27 pm

Sport73 wrote:Some programs I use:
MS Office ($179)
iWork ($99)
Adium (free multi-protocol chat client)
OSXVNC (free remote login utility)
Chicken of the VNC (free remote login client)
Google Earth
Acquisition (P2P client)
Handbrake (Free DVD ripping software - great for creating iPod or PSP ready movies)
MacJanitor (Free 'clean up' utility; purges cashes etc.)
VLC; MPlayer (Free wmv and other format movie playback)

Thanks for your detailed info Sport. Which particular MS office software you use though, as the one online is selling for over $350. I also start finding that I am using less and less windows, the overall OSX is much cleaner and uncluttered to use. When travelling I still carry my old IBM as I just need to get used to a few software issues that you mentioned and particular keyboard actions that I am still learning from Apple. For example which key is for right clicking when using the scroll only instead of the mouse. Thanks.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:08 pm

Maybe all the mac experts in here can explain to me why i am having so much trouble. I have one of the "sunflower" iMacs. I think they came out in 2001 or 2002. Since i have had it the logic board has fried 3 times, it happens pretty much the same way everytime.

I am working in either iDVD or iMovie and the system freezes, it wont do anything I can't force quit etc. I am forced to hold the power button to turn it off and then the system never restarts, it comes on but it never does anything.

everytime it ends up being a fried logic board, since it is about a $600 replacement it gets expensive. It just happend for the 3rd time 2 weeks ago. Which means my last iMovie project which is fairly big is f***ed unless i pay the absolute over priced fee to fix it.

Is there something wrong with these models? I must say if not for iMovie and iDVD I wouldn't have ever repaired it. but it is getting to the point where I don't trust Mac's anymore. Any insight on my problem is appreciated, I'm not trying to flame here i just need to understand what is happening because i can't get rid of iMovie and iDVD

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:13 pm

JRod,

Be sure to check out macrumors.com. Great website with very knowledgeable posters in the forums. There's a specific thread for Buying Tips, Advice, and Discussion.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:51 pm

Danimal wrote:Maybe all the mac experts in here can explain to me why i am having so much trouble. I have one of the "sunflower" iMacs. I think they came out in 2001 or 2002. Since i have had it the logic board has fried 3 times, it happens pretty much the same way everytime.

I am working in either iDVD or iMovie and the system freezes, it wont do anything I can't force quit etc. I am forced to hold the power button to turn it off and then the system never restarts, it comes on but it never does anything.

everytime it ends up being a fried logic board, since it is about a $600 replacement it gets expensive. It just happend for the 3rd time 2 weeks ago. Which means my last iMovie project which is fairly big is f***ed unless i pay the absolute over priced fee to fix it.

Is there something wrong with these models? I must say if not for iMovie and iDVD I wouldn't have ever repaired it. but it is getting to the point where I don't trust Mac's anymore. Any insight on my problem is appreciated, I'm not trying to flame here i just need to understand what is happening because i can't get rid of iMovie and iDVD

Where are you getting it repaired? Sounds like a short somewhere else which is causing the logic board to fry.

See if the Apple store will back up your project for you. Then maybe rent or borrow a Mac to complete it. I wouldn't keep paying that much for a logic board replacement. Hell, two logic board replacements and you could have had a new computer with a bigger screen.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:58 pm

sportdan30 wrote:Sport,

Can you recommend a rather inexpensive external dvd burner?

I knew I should have ponied up and gotten the super drive when I purchased my IMac. Oh well.

Thanks.

I don't know about inexpensive. In theory, any USB 2.0 or Firewire peripheral should work, unless the chips and drives used are so unusual that there are no Mac drivers. You often see deals at Frys (outpost.com) for external storage devices, usually hard drives, but maybe not DVD burners.

I don't know if third-party, external burners are supported by the disc burning frameworks which come with OS X (either the Finder will recognize a blank CD or DVD when you insert it into the external drive or it won't).

You can look for La Cie peripherals, which are usually sold with any necessary drivers and mastering programs (if OS X doesn't support the external drive).

You could also check out Other World Computing. Just Google for it.

A bare dual-layer DVD burner these days are $50 or less. But once you put it in an enclosure with a Firewire or USB interface as well as any software, you may pay at least double that.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Wed May 31, 2006 5:25 pm

OK,

First, here's the link to parallels...The trial (beta) version is free, it will be $50 when it goes final; I'm running it and it works GREAT (as long as you don't need 3D graphics acceleration).

http://www.parallels.com/en/download/

Second, get the Student & Teacher edition of Office 2004 (it's fully featured and you don't have to be a student).

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/W ... 5.7.11.4.3

Third, the Lacie line of external DVD burners is great, and I believe iDVD (OSX) supports external burners as of iLife '05...

http://www.lacie.com/products/family.htm?id=10008

"When travelling I still carry my old IBM as I just need to get used to a few software issues that you mentioned and particular keyboard actions that I am still learning from Apple. For example which key is for right clicking when using the scroll only instead of the mouse. Thanks."

Use parallels or bootcamp if you've got an Intel Mac and ditch that IBM. Left click + ctrl is the equivalent of a right click.

In fact, an often overlooked benefit to the Mac GUI is the fact that the adherence to a single-button mouse drives developers to support standardized keyboard shortcuts across applications without the need for right-click contextual menus. command Z= undo; command C = Copy; Command V=Paste, Command S=Save; Command ,=Preferences...

Lastly, a fried logic board 3 times suggest some serious power-conditioning concerns, are you running a good surge protector? I recommend the APC backup power supply for any expensive computing/television equipment; it's worth it.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/W ... 5.7.11.5.3

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:06 pm

I'm looking to upgrade the ram. I choose not to spend apple's prices for RAM. Can you guys recommend a good site to get RAM?

maddoc1979 · Post by **maddoc1979** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:26 pm

Crucial is great for RAM...you just put in your computer type and it'll spit out your options. You can also take the specs from the crucial site and find memory occasionally cheaper on Newegg.com. Dealt with both and had great experiences with both.

Doc