First ever complaint regarding WE

fanatic · Post by **fanatic** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:19 am

I know that the CPU "cheating" issue has received some attention around these circles, but I just thought I'd share my latest experience in order to see if this is indeed a pattern and because I'm just so damn angry I lost in the FA Cup Finals.

Anyways, I score a golden goal at the 117' mark in the FA Cup Final. Beautiful goal...Tottenham (me) vs. Newcastle. I'm grinning ear to ear, because not only was it a beautiful strike from outside the box (Dawson scored it), but because it will be my first cup win during Masters League in over six seasons of WE8 and WE9.

In injury time, I think I have the match sealed. I have the ball in the opponent's half. I have a man dashing down the side and simply have to put the ball into open space, kick it around a couple of times, and the game is over.

I'm not lying when I say that despite pointing the pass down, the pass went in the exact opposite direction. This was no human error on my part- something was strange. I yell at the screen as this happens, knowing what must be coming next. Newcastle dashes down the very side of the pitch, crosses the ball all the way past the goalie, where Shearer heads the ball from about 10 m away. My goalie has conveniently decided to play the ball while standing BEHIND the goal line, punches it away, but is called a goal because it indeed crossed the line.

Sorry to vent, and I'm sure this has been a boring post if you even chose to read it at all, but I'm just so frustrated that such an incredible franchise like Winning Eleven would contain moments like these of complete stupidity. I'm all for a competitive CPU- but there has to be a line!

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:40 am

Can't live with Winning Eleven, can't live without it.

I lost the D1 Cup final in my 6* ML as Juventus to AC Milan 5-3 in extra time after I hit the post in the 90th minute. I was so frustrated I wanted to smash something.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon May 15, 2006 10:53 am

I've got plenty of complaints about WE, but I've never blamed anything like that on some mysterious cheating AI or anything. You can count me in the crowd who doesn't see any kind of 'speed cheat' or anything. And yes, I've had it pass where I don't expect it to pass tons of times, and 100% of the time it's because I pushed the stick in the direction when I hit or released the button, not when the player hit the ball.

As to the goalie being in the goal, that is a weird one.

And you can ask Rob Varak, I almost broke my new plasma last night because of this game. Can't blame any cheating AI for that one, because I was playing Rob online.

PS I've had plenty of tight 1-0, 2-1 games where I have successfully held posession, even wasting time in the corners standing on the ball. The thing is, the whistle only blows when the ball is in midfield, so sometimes I feel like I am standing on the ball in the corner forever, and I need to let the CPU take it and send it upfield before the game will end.

fanatic · Post by **fanatic** » Mon May 15, 2006 11:14 am

I hear you both for sure....

I think that there was indeed some type of skill reduction for my players during these moments though.

Maybe passing accuracy went down and goalie skill as well...who's to say...but something definitely happened.

Anyways...considering I've played hundreds of WE and this is my first big issue...it just reaffirms that this is probably the best sports franchise I'll ever play.

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Mon May 15, 2006 11:38 am

The AI in WE has cheated in every version i've ever played. I still love the game but it cheats no doubt about it.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Mon May 15, 2006 11:46 am

The developers have confirmed that the CPU "cheats" on higher difficulties by giving speed boosts to computer defenders. And I think it's pretty obvious, even without official confirmation. They said the AI they can program is limited by the PS2 and that they have to resort to a bit of cheapness to keep the game from being too easy.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue May 16, 2006 10:55 am

There is no doubt that it cheats. Although it's less obvious then say Madden or NCAA where if you are up by 6 in the 4th quarter and in the red zone...F U M B L E.

In WE10, on 5 stars, they hampared the user by making the controls feel a little bit sluggish. The quick turns and cuts are gone. One positive is they handle scoring differently than FIFA. On FIFA the CPU scores cheap goals, this is how they address difficulty. One long pass, one amazing pass into the box and some insane shot to the top corner.

In WE, they hide the cheating. I remember WE6. If you had the lead in, the CPU would just become super. Not so in the latest versions.

Overall, WE10 has reenergized my playing time for the game.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:04 am

I've heard that the goalies are overly poor in WE10. Do you find this to be the case?

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:15 am

Feanor wrote:The developers have confirmed that the CPU "cheats" on higher difficulties by giving speed boosts to computer defenders. And I think it's pretty obvious, even without official confirmation. They said the AI they can program is limited by the PS2 and that they have to resort to a bit of cheapness to keep the game from being too easy.

I've just bumped my ML from 5 to 6 stars in the offseason, and there's definitely a speed boost. I have a pretty star-laden team at this point, and mediocre fullbacks with speed numbers in the 70's and 80's regularly run down speed demons like Robinho. This is true even in a flat-out race for a long ball where neither player is slowed by possession.

My only real problem with it is that it blurs the lines between good and weak opposition. It's as hard to beat Parma as it is to beat AC Milan. In fact, it's often harder because the smaller clubs use defensive tactics that are all the more potent for their false boosts. At least the clubs with a lot of attack power leave some openings at the back.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:41 am

I would say no. I like it a bit more sloppy. A lot of people have said they don't like the fact that the goalkeeper doesn't catch more balls. I haven't noticed how many gk's drop in the real game but I would say it adds to the unpredictability in the game.

They have correct the issue where the gk will stand a watch a ball go by.

I don't see it. In fact I had to move down to 4 stars to win a game. I think WE 10 is the most difficult WE I've played to date. Shots are more random. Even if you have the right amount of power, if you hit it off the wrong foot and wrong angle it can do anywhere.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Tue May 16, 2006 2:53 pm

That sounds good. Although I already really like the shooting in WE9 - it's almost always my own fault if I miss. It's cool how a full power shot from 20m can go in if you've got your player in good position, but a full power shot from the same position can fly into row Z if your player is off balance or not on the correct angle.

What are volleys like in WE 10? Volleys were too hard in WE8I and I really like how they work in WE 9 - except for the overhead which Konami inexplicably ruined.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue May 16, 2006 3:28 pm

On another note, they also really need to fix the player ratings for game performance if they want to continue to use them for development during the ML. Defenders and keepers are terribly undervalued, and there are a million other odd quirks as well. I've had guys score hat tricks and get 6.0's, while the sub who came on for them played 12 minutes, got one assist and ended up with a 7.5. Many odd things like that.

I don't care that the ratings are goofy except for the fact that it makes it much harder to develop a defender or keeper over a course of several seasons.

Bud · Post by **Bud** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:12 pm

What team condition settings is everyone using? In previous WE versions, I preferred the random setting since this is a sim. For WE9, the game seems to play better with the home team condition set to excellent and the away team set to normal. This is at four star difficulty.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:22 pm

I feel it's harder to hit a good shot in general. Bad position ruins everything. I've been in a great position for a goal only to have a guy hit it off his wrong foot or the ball is slightly "off" to find the ball go into row z. In previous WE's this was a goal or atleast a shot into goal. Not so, in WE10. You don't have to be perfect but you have to be better.

Volleys work much like WE9 although I would add there's of a chance that the ball will be mishit.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:48 pm

Bud wrote:What team condition settings is everyone using? In previous WE versions, I preferred the random setting since this is a sim. For WE9, the game seems to play better with the home team condition set to excellent and the away team set to normal. This is at four star difficulty.

I only use random.

vanburen · Post by **vanburen** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:37 pm

RobVarak wrote:
Feanor wrote:The developers have confirmed that the CPU "cheats" on higher difficulties by giving speed boosts to computer defenders. And I think it's pretty obvious, even without official confirmation. They said the AI they can program is limited by the PS2 and that they have to resort to a bit of cheapness to keep the game from being too easy.
I've just bumped my ML from 5 to 6 stars in the offseason, and there's definitely a speed boost. I have a pretty star-laden team at this point, and mediocre fullbacks with speed numbers in the 70's and 80's regularly run down speed demons like Robinho. This is true even in a flat-out race for a long ball where neither player is slowed by possession.

My only real problem with it is that it blurs the lines between good and weak opposition. It's as hard to beat Parma as it is to beat AC Milan. In fact, it's often harder because the smaller clubs use defensive tactics that are all the more potent for their false boosts. At least the clubs with a lot of attack power leave some openings at the back.

why not play with a weaker team and drop down in stars?

that doesn't always work of course. my biggest frustration is that, say on 4* I keep a clean sheet often, but on 5*, it's not that the cpu offense gets better, only its defense it seems, so games are too low scoring. it could be that I'm considerably better on defense than offense, surely the sign of a non-WE-expert.

when I play with mates 1 on 1 or 2 on 2, we take the GKs out and replace with field players b/c the 0-0 draw is a buzzkill, but a 3-2 game with a wild goal or GK misplay goal adds to the excitement.