There it is, $500

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:54 am

Good points, Divot Maker. When you think about it, though, Sony hasn't done that bad of a bad job with the PSP. I've only gotten a couple of online games in with The Show, but if the PS3 online service works as good as that, I won't complain..especially if it's free. In fact, I've been pretty impressed by the amount of updates Sony has given the PSP in general. Maybe they'll take the same approach when the PS3 is competing with the 360. It certainly seems like they would have the incentive to do so.

Alright, I'm getting off the PS3 stump now. If The Show and Hot Shots both blow, I'm probably not buying it either.

pigpen81 · Post by **pigpen81** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:57 am

Matt and PK have nailed it on the head for me.

Xbox/360 is my online console of choice....it gives me everything I need. Playing Ultra Marble Blast on Live while streaming music off my PC is near gaming nirvana right now. Oblivion will take me 1-2 years to finish.

I have no online hopes for the Wii...anything the Big N does with online is just gravy.

At around $200 I get a pick up and play console, terrific games I have loved since I was 12 years old with the most innovative controller that might revolutionize the way we play games.
original NES...heck, its the only game my Dad had ever played. Those
Add the fact that it will be the best console for the family.....I'm sold.

I still remember the nights my family played Super Mario Bros. on the were some awesome nights I will never forget.

In 2-3 years when my son is old enough to play, he will have a controller that will seriously develop fine motor skills.....awesome.

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:00 am

Here's the thing I like about Nintendo right now: they're innovating (and they're doing it without raping my checking account). As much as I like the 360, and as much as I might like the PS3 if I didn't need to secure a home equity loan to buy it, the games on those systems are (or appear to be, in the case of the PS3) by and large prettier versions of the same old thing we've seen and played before.

I won't speak for the rest of you, but I got into video gaming as a wee lad because everything about that kind of gaming seemed fresh and new. It was a brand new hobby and almost everything was innovative in one way or another (whether it worked well or not isn't really the point). Sure, I like to see the prettiness of games on my 360, but if the Wii can introduce a new way to play games that offers a completely fresh gaming experience then I'm all over that.
---Todd

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:16 am

ubrakto wrote:Here's the thing I like about Nintendo right now: they're innovating (and they're doing it without raping my checking account). As much as I like the 360, and as much as I might like the PS3 if I didn't need to secure a home equity loan to buy it, the games on those systems are (or appear to be, in the case of the PS3) by and large prettier versions of the same old thing we've seen and played before.

I won't speak for the rest of you, but I got into video gaming as a wee lad because everything about that kind of gaming seemed fresh and new. It was a brand new hobby and almost everything was innovative in one way or another (whether it worked well or not isn't really the point). Sure, I like to see the prettiness of games on my 360, but if the Wii can introduce a new way to play games that offers a completely fresh gaming experience then I'm all over that.
---Todd

Perfect phrasing. This is the exact way I feel too about the next generation of consoles.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:41 am

Think yerselves lucky

European prices for the 2 models are e499 and e599, so I'm betting that will translate to £400 and £500.

For that price, I'd be expecting mine to come with a free gorgeous Japanese babe to sit on the couch and play the games for me, while I psych myself up for the titanic collision with my bank manager.

Hmm...maybe £500 is a reasonable price

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:44 am

ubrakto wrote:Here's the thing I like about Nintendo right now: they're innovating (and they're doing it without raping my checking account). As much as I like the 360, and as much as I might like the PS3 if I didn't need to secure a home equity loan to buy it, the games on those systems are (or appear to be, in the case of the PS3) by and large prettier versions of the same old thing we've seen and played before.

I won't speak for the rest of you, but I got into video gaming as a wee lad because everything about that kind of gaming seemed fresh and new. It was a brand new hobby and almost everything was innovative in one way or another (whether it worked well or not isn't really the point). Sure, I like to see the prettiness of games on my 360, but if the Wii can introduce a new way to play games that offers a completely fresh gaming experience then I'm all over that.
---Todd

Ding-ding! Post of the week regarding this subject. Very well said, Todd!

Take care,
PK

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:55 am

Just to re-iterate it's been two days now and the price still hasn't sunk in on me yet....I really think Sony has made a colossal misjudgment and this is coming up from some one who normally views this board as a refuge for xbox fans.

I'm as hardcore as they come when it comes to videogames. Hell it's my job, but when they create that pricepoint when their competitors will be much cheaper in this country, something seems horribly wrong.

Up until now I thought they were going to cakewalk to another generational lead but at least in this country, I'd be stunned if that happened. I just don't see the regular mass of american people leaping to pay that much money for what is ultimately a game console. Not to mention all the other points that have already been mentioned about lack of creativity in the console in comparison to their competitors.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:04 am

reeche wrote:Just to re-iterate it's been two days now and the price still hasn't sunk in on me yet....I really think Sony has made a colossal misjudgment and this is coming up from some one who normally views this board as a refuge for xbox fans.

I'm as hardcore as they come when it comes to videogames. Hell it's my job, but when they create that pricepoint when their competitors will be much cheaper in this country, something seems horribly wrong.

Up until now I thought they were going to cakewalk to another generational lead but at least in this country, I'd be stunned if that happened. I just don't see the regular mass of american people leaping to pay that much money for what is ultimately a game console. Not to mention all the other points that have already been mentioned about lack of creativity in the console in comparison to their competitors.

Well said, could not agree more.

I am also dumbfounded that Sony is taking such a risk with the BluRay since neither it nor HD-DVD have been locked in as "the standard" for next gen DVD. I am even more convinced that this may end up being a "two-format" generation because I don't think MS would have decided to support an HD-DVD peripheral if they were not positive of support from the movie industry. Sony was banking on BluRay being "THE" big difference in this generation and it looks like (at this point in time) the strategy is backfiring along with the pricing.....this is somewhat atypical behavior for Sony because they have gotten so much right in the past....

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:07 am

It comes down to this: for $600, you need to do more than make pretty pictures.

The 360 Premium at $400 to me was completely reasonable, especially if you owned an HDTV. You got hi-def gaming, built in wireless controllers, a much more robust version of XBL, a bigger hard drive, and the cables for only $100 more than the original XBox launch price. The uneveness of the game library may not make the 360 seem valuable, but I think most would say the $400 is reasonable considering what you get.

With the PS3, you're getting Blu-Ray, a 1080p technology when A) There are no 1080p movies to play and B) a lot of HDTV sets don't have 1080p resolution. Doesn't seem like a solid foundation for continued console domination.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:11 am

ubrakto wrote: I won't speak for the rest of you, but I got into video gaming as a wee lad because everything about that kind of gaming seemed fresh and new. It was a brand new hobby and almost everything was innovative in one way or another (whether it worked well or not isn't really the point). Sure, I like to see the prettiness of games on my 360, but if the Wii can introduce a new way to play games that offers a completely fresh gaming experience then I'm all over that.
---Todd

Good post, Todd... I also really like the idea of Nintendo's innovating its controller. Looks like they've done a great job in creating a new experience..I just wish they had more of a track record for sports games with their system.

I'll admit to being a little different though...I've always been attacted to prettiness in games. Seeing the latest and greatest graphics gets me interested. If the gameplay is good, then I stay interested.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:14 am

HD-DVD movies are already starting to find their way on to the market. Actually, some of the newer DVD releases are coming bundled with the HD-DVD movie as well.

I do wonder what percentage of consumers have an HD-DVD player though. Probably less than 5%? Even still, when prices start to fall, they will at least have their movie to watch on their new player.

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:15 am

I think the title needs to be changed from 500 to 600.

The 500 dollar unit is like buying the 360 core pack except... oh wait... you can't add on later. Doh!

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:21 am

I have not read much this week at all so far from all the E3 crap but from what I have heard, I am getting stoked about the Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Duck hunt??? Hell yeah!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:21 am

Funny, I was flipping through the channels in my temporary Indy apartment last night and got to MSNBC and the show with that annoying little twit, Tucker Carlson. The PlayStation 3 price was one of their talking points, and after discussing it with his co-host, Carlson said: "Whew! $600 for a video game machine. That's a commitment. That's not a hobby; it's a lifestyle."

Every wire or Web story I've read about the PS3 mentions the steep price tag in the lead graphs and then talks about the technological features of the console.

Right now, when you think PS3, the first thing you think of is "expensive." I don't think that's what Sony wants!

Take care,
PK

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:24 am

reeche wrote:Just to re-iterate it's been two days now and the price still hasn't sunk in on me yet....I really think Sony has made a colossal misjudgment and this is coming up from some one who normally views this board as a refuge for xbox fans.

I think it's just a bit of sticker shock for you... I had it initially but have somewhat gotten over it. I paid $400 for the 360 and allowed myself to be ripped off to the tune of $50 (!) for a wireless controller and $60 for games. I really don't think at the end of the day that $100 more for the equivalent PS3 is that big of a deal... people like expensive gadgets. Look at the iPod... there's no other way to put it, those things are *expensive*. Does anyone really think a 60GB iPod is worth $399? People get over the sticker shock to get stuff they really want.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:00 pm

Kazuya wrote:I think it's just a bit of sticker shock for you... I had it initially but have somewhat gotten over it. I paid $400 for the 360 and allowed myself to be ripped off to the tune of $50 (!) for a wireless controller and $60 for games. I really don't think at the end of the day that $100 more for the equivalent PS3 is that big of a deal... people like expensive gadgets. Look at the iPod... there's no other way to put it, those things are *expensive*. Does anyone really think a 60GB iPod is worth $399? People get over the sticker shock to get stuff they really want.

That's the thing. I'm factoring myself in and I can guarantee I'm not getting one at launch so something seems off there since I'm the consumer they would normally get (I buy all the dumb crap in the world first when it comes to videogames)...Now perhaps I shouldn't be extrapolating myself out as the test case....

But then I look at the "normal" people I know like my brother or other people I know, and there is no way they will pay even close to that price. Not because they don't like games but because they have real world responsibilities. People simply can't spend that much on a videogame console which is not a life necessity.

Maybe I could see this working if Sony had a monopoly on the market or they were the only videogame manufacturer around. But they don't exist in a videogame vacuum or a life vacuum. I'm sure Sony has done all sorts of market research and has plans to get from A to B from hardcore nuts to mainstream but it's not like the other console companies or consumers are going to sit around and let them do whatever they want.

As usual time will tell. A year from now, Sony could be the market leader again....but logically I don't see that plan being remotely easy. They've placed a lot of faith in their brand name and I have a feeling the majority of consumers think with their checkbook and some combination of emotions/fun factor/reason instead of just blindly following the market leader. We'll see.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:02 pm

I heard an ad on the radio down here in Atlanta this morning that someone (Best Buy?) is selling Toshiba HD-DVD players this weekend for $499. I was surprised because I thought they were still much more expensive than that.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:10 pm

I was thinking if the PS3 was the same price as the 360 I would be tempted to get one. Now that it's $499-$599 there's no way I'm getting one until it drops in price. I know people say that it will cost the same as a Blue Ray player but I'm not going to get one of those until the format wars have been settled.

I remember the VHS/Beta wars all too well. Fortunately my dad went with a VHS but my neighbor bought Beta and was pissed to high heaven. I also had another neighbor that bought one of those video disc players (forget the name but it was those record-sized movies) and was pissed shortly afterwards too. On my way in this morning I heard a Tweeter commercial for HD-DVD. Being first to market just might win the format war IMO. Another reason I'm leaning towards HD-DVD to win is the name HD-DVD. It's an extension on DVD and DVD's are what the public know and love. The average Joe consumer will see HD-DVD and Blue Ray and most likely pick HD-DVD because that's what they've heard of. I could be wrong about all of this but Sony is taking a big gamble by banking on Blue Ray and the PS3 together. Remember, UMD's flew off the shelf after the PSP was released but now they're sitting on the store shelves because you can't play it on anything but the PSP.

Microsoft will be able to do a price cut sooner than Sony and that could make all the difference in the world. If I had been holding out on the next-gen systems until I knew more about the PS3 I would have picked up an Xbox 360 yesterday after hearing about the PS3 price point.

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:15 pm

Wow, can you imagine a 360 price cut just before the PS3 launch? That would have to really put a hurting on Sony sales IMO.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:19 pm

reeche wrote:
That's the thing. I'm factoring myself in and I can guarantee I'm not getting one at launch so something seems off there since I'm the consumer they would normally get (I buy all the dumb crap in the world first when it comes to videogames)...Now perhaps I shouldn't be extrapolating myself out as the test case....

Yeah, Reeche, same here. I know they are not really in the same ballpark, but with the Wii naming controversy, after the initial giggles, I was instantly back to 'But I'm buying one anyway.' Not so with the PS3, which was originally under the 'Not too exited about it, but I know I'll get one anyway' category.

Now I know I'm definitely not getting one at launch. I think maybe the only thing that could bring it back into a possibility is some sort or exclusive killer ap...but both exclusives and killer aps are becoming more and more rare nowadays.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:22 pm

reeche wrote:That's the thing. I'm factoring myself in and I can guarantee I'm not getting one at launch so something seems off there since I'm the consumer they would normally get (I buy all the dumb crap in the world first when it comes to videogames)...Now perhaps I shouldn't be extrapolating myself out as the test case....

None of us should. Another thing to consider is that for most of us, we have *already* shelled out in excess of $500 for the 360. Then we see the PS3 prices and we're like "whoa, no way I'm sinking well over a grand into video games". The average buyer of the PS3 is not going to have that problem. They are going to be PS2 loyalists (where 70% of the market is) who are sitting around in their boxers playing God of War for the umpteenth time while waiting for the PS3 to launch. Like PK said, they are going to have no problem charging a PS3 they can't afford on the credit card and dealing with it later...

I *still* say that if a $400 MP3 player can sell in record-smashing qualities, then this thing can and will sell just fine. So I'm over my sticker shock, now it's just up for the PS3 to convince me to buy one with the games.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:30 pm

DivotMaker wrote: I don't think MS would have decided to support an HD-DVD peripheral if they were not positive of support from the movie industry.

Actually, MS came out publicly for HD-DVD as a format only AFTER it got wind that Warner Bros., the studio which had the most to gain from HD-DVD winning (because it holds patents in DVD which would carry over to HD-DVD but not Blu-Ray), would publicly come out and announce intentions to ship Blu-Ray titles as well as HD-DVD titles.

Right now, Blu-Ray has the support of all the studios except Universal. Sony, Disney and Fox are thus far Blu-Ray only, while Warner and Paramount have announced plans to support both formats.

One of the reasons there is more studio support for Blu-Ray was the expected adoption of the PS3. If the PS3 does sell 4 million worldwide between early November and the end of December, that will probably be many times the number of all other HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players combined.

The Toshiba player is out there at $499 but in small quantities (10k or less) and while the picture quality is better than anything else out right now, it has problems (like taking 90 seconds to play a disc). Toshiba is expected to have a newer model before Xmas.

You can certainly benefit from HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players (both of which store movies at 1080p) even if you don't have a 1080p display yet. It will look better than any DVD player (including upscaling DVD players, although HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will also upscale regular DVDs) and any other HDTV source, including D-Theater tapes.

But it may be that a lot of HDTV owners care more about watching live HDTV sports than movies in HDTV.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:36 pm

Kazuya wrote: I think it's just a bit of sticker shock for you... I had it initially but have somewhat gotten over it.

Evidently it is sticker shock for all but the most diehard Sony fans. I was ready to pick one up on launch day. Unless there is a major change in the pricing, not picking it up since it offers me personally no more than my current 360 does.

Kazuya wrote:I really don't think at the end of the day that $100 more for the equivalent PS3 is that big of a deal... people like expensive gadgets.

Actually it is more like $200 more.

Kazuya wrote:Look at the iPod... there's no other way to put it, those things are *expensive*. Does anyone really think a 60GB iPod is worth $399? People get over the sticker shock to get stuff they really want.

I have one and never gave a second thought to sticker shock. Purchases in that range are typically impulse purchases for me. However, by the time you walk out of the store with the high end PS3 with ONE game, you will be looking at $800+ if you include the much needed extended warranty. Suddensly, it is no longer an "impulse purchase"....

The difference to me is that the PS3 does nothing more for me than my $400 360. I can't use many of the claimed features such as 1080p and there is still not a hint of what their online interface and features are going to be like. To me, if you put the 360 Premium up against the $600 PS3, I don't see $200 worth of added value. I am starting to sense MANY people are feeling the same way....

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:38 pm

Kazuya wrote:
reeche wrote:That's the thing. I'm factoring myself in and I can guarantee I'm not getting one at launch so something seems off there since I'm the consumer they would normally get (I buy all the dumb crap in the world first when it comes to videogames)...Now perhaps I shouldn't be extrapolating myself out as the test case....
None of us should. Another thing to consider is that for most of us, we have *already* shelled out in excess of $500 for the 360. Then we see the PS3 prices and we're like "whoa, no way I'm sinking well over a grand into video games". The average buyer of the PS3 is not going to have that problem. They are going to be PS2 loyalists (where 70% of the market is) who are sitting around in their boxers playing God of War for the umpteenth time while waiting for the PS3 to launch. Like PK said, they are going to have no problem charging a PS3 they can't afford on the credit card and dealing with it later...

I *still* say that if a $400 MP3 player can sell in record-smashing qualities, then this thing can and will sell just fine. So I'm over my sticker shock, now it's just up for the PS3 to convince me to buy one with the games.

But it's not $500, Kaz, it's $600. Anyone who buys the $500 version is missing the biggest technological advantage of the PS3, Blu-Ray playback, due to a lack of an HDMI jack.

My 360 purchase was $590 plus tax -- one Premium system, one play-n-charge kit, and three games (one of which was $50). Getting a Sony PS3 with Blu-Ray playback and three games will be $780 plus tax -- and that's if it comes with an HDMI cable.

They are both expensive, and even at that hefty tag, the PS3 is cheaper than buying a new PC for gaming. But is there an extra $200 worth of value there? Right now, I'm not seeing it.

On top of that, buying a new PC for gaming gives you access to all kinds of incredible games. But how will the PS3 launch be? People complain about the 360 launch library, but the PS2 probably had the crappiest lineup of titles ever for a new console. It took about 9-12 months before you started seeing really good games come out for it on a regular basis.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:39 pm

Kazuya wrote:None of us should. Another thing to consider is that for most of us, we have *already* shelled out in excess of $500 for the 360. Then we see the PS3 prices and we're like "whoa, no way I'm sinking well over a grand into video games". The average buyer of the PS3 is not going to have that problem. They are going to be PS2 loyalists (where 70% of the market is) who are sitting around in their boxers playing God of War for the umpteenth time while waiting for the PS3 to launch. Like PK said, they are going to have no problem charging a PS3 they can't afford on the credit card and dealing with it later...

That's key. A lot of people who bought more than one console didn't buy all of them at launch prices. I think a lot of Xbox sales came from people who already had the PS2 who decided to get the Xbox after the first or second price cut. IIRC, MS dropped the price from $299 to $199 in less than a year (if not the first E3 after launch, then the following E3).

Those who bought the X360 were already predisposed to the X360. They had decided because of XBL or Halo that they were going with MS. Even if the PS3 price was lower, I think many of those would be skeptical about the PS3 (didn't like the Sony online setup, didn't like GT, etc.) or just reluctant to pay for another console at launch prices, whether those prices are $600 or $400.