OT: NBA 2005-2006 Season Discussion

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:55 pm

wco81 wrote:It wasn't that long ago that we had threads about whether Lebron wasn't being overhyped by having his high school games broadcast on ESPN.

He still has ways to go to develop as a player but his draw (franchise players also have to fill the seats as well as the box score) is already undeniable.

We also use to have threads wishing him ill will and saying what a flop he was going to be in the NBA. Never understodd that mentality of wishing for the worst for young people. That was the old sportreviewers days. The funny thing is some of those people still post. (I'm not talking about you wco81) Boy I wish that forum was still around so I could dig up some old threads.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:58 pm

A really underrated guy on the Suns is Barbosa. Everyone knew the guy was quick, the only question was his outside shooting when he was drafted.

Well he shot around 40% on 3-pointers for me in fantasy league. He's a talent and Diaw is as well. If they become available in the market, they should be able to get contracts.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:00 pm

The Lebron threads were at DSP, not sportsreviewers.

It was only a couple of years ago he was in high school.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:01 pm

Steve Nash is amazing! If only all of us had his work ethic. I really thought when he won the award last year that it was a one-time thing...but to repeat, especially being under the microscope after winning the MVP is an even greater feat. Unheard of in HOT bed crazy NHL country.

There is no doubt that if you take Steve away from the Suns that they are nowhere near the playoffs. He just makes everyone play so much better. Also, look at what Boris Diaw did this year playing with Nash! Diaw was an absolute bust with the Hawks.

If the reports are true and it's a BIG if at the moment which other point guard won the award twice?

The other candidate I thought it deserved mention is Kobe for the Lakers.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:03 pm

wco81 wrote:A really underrated guy on the Suns is Barbosa. Everyone knew the guy was quick, the only question was his outside shooting when he was drafted.

You're right, he's definitely improved his shot and it's hard for anyone to stay with him off the dribble because of his speed, but he's not very good defensively and he's a SG, not a PG like he was drafted for. He excels when Nash is out there with him. That's the problem with him going to another team...no one else has Nash to set him up. Having him and Nash in the backcourt is even more of a defensive liability than the Suns usually have...so you didn't used to see it alot. He's improved so they play together quite a bit nowdays, but it's still not ideal.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:05 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Nash deserves it...but I'm a Suns fan (the only on this board really)...so you guys could probably assume that.

The only person who possibly was a better choice was Dirk. Without his running mates (Fin and Nash) he has consistently upped his game to the point where I don't think he can get much better. I hate watching him play, but that's just because I appreciate everything he does on the floor. Now, if he didn't whine so much and criticize the hell out of all of his teammates when they get beat, then maybe he'd get more love from the voters...that's where I think he gets dinged.

Hardly any of the "professional" sports guys picked the Suns to even make the playoffs, let alone be the 2nd seed in the tough west (well, 3rd technically). Steve Nash turned also-rans into studs. The only other legit NBA players on the floor every night was Shawn Marion and Raja Bell. Other than that, you've got a bunch of 5 point a night guys that end up all scoring in double digits. Sure, you can give some credit to D'Antoni, but no one can bring a team together like Steve Nash. Oh yeah...and name a guy on the Suns that's taller than 6"10? Oh wait, there isn't anyone. Name a starter taller than 6'8? Again, there isn't one. Tim Thomas sometimes, but he's just another castoff that loves playing in the Suns system. That system doesn't exist without Nash. No other point guard in the league right now that can run a system like that except for maybe Jason Kidd...and he can't shoot like Nash. Where's Amare? Another vote for Nash.

Of course I agree that no one knows what the MVP means. If it's the best player in the league, it's Kobe. If it's the best player on the best team, gotta go with Chauncy. If it's the most valuable player on the team that would suck without him, it's gotta go to Nash. Apparently the last criteria is where most of the voters heads were at.

It's all good for debate...carry on.

I don't bash you at all. I can certainly see from your perspective that he deserves especially being a fan of that team. I just think that this is one of those times where the award is going to a guy because writers like Steve Nash versus him having the best season of any player in the league.

Like I said, I'll never knock Nash again as a player because I did a lot of that while he was in Dallas and it rightfully got it thrown in my face when he turned around the Suns. I just don't think Steve Nash has been the defining player of the last two years to deserve to win Back to Back MVP's.

Bizzarely the NBA MVP is the only award like that in a major sport I take seriously. The other sports leagues are too fluky by nature for me to care about who won the MVP's in a particular year and I usually forgot. There is something special about Basketball's MVP to me in that they are generally great career players and often are the standard bearer for the entire league at that snapshot in time. I'll be curious to see what the reaction is among the basketball talking heads.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:08 pm

wco81 wrote:The Lebron threads were at DSP, not sportsreviewers.

It was only a couple of years ago he was in high school.

Maybe....although I could have sworn some of them were at sportreviewers because I didn't start posting on DSP for quite awhile until after sportsreviewers went down.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:21 pm

The best arguement for Steve Nash is this...

The Suns returned 2 players from last years Western Conference Finals team (Marion and Barbosa)...and they still had the 3rd best record in the conference. That is unheard of.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:49 pm

Nash for MVP is ridiculous. The Suns have 2 perennial all-stars, a great coach and a solid bench, there is no reason why they shouldn't win 50 games. Compare that to the Lakers, who have one All-Star and eleven BAD players (even Odom, who was horrific for most of the year). Even the LeBrons -- er, Cavs -- don't have as good a roster as the Suns. Then there's Dirk, on a 60 win team as the lone All-Star while it takes the Pistons four All-Stars to win 64. And the Pistons had no injuries while the Mavs had to have had more injuries than just about every team.

What the f*** are they gonna do, give the MVP to Nash every year? Have some Nash formula to determine if the wins the MVP based on how they would have done without him? If Stoudemire and Marion both miss next year by some freak collision in training camp, but the Suns go 43-39 with Barbosa starting at center and Eddie House starting at power forward, does Nash win MVP? What if the Suns have a Florida Marlins-style fire sale to save money, and puts Nash on the floor with 11 NBDL players? If they go 15-67 does he win the MVP because they would have gone 2-80 without him? Give me a f***in' break!

He deserved it last year, they had the best record when they were awful the year before and he was clearly the reason why. But him getting it this year is just too much of a stretch. I feel like they are placing too much emphasis on the absence of Stoudemire when the reality is that they still are more than serviceable without him.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:12 pm

Kazuya wrote:He deserved it last year, they had the best record when they were awful the year before and he was clearly the reason why. But him getting it this year is just too much of a stretch.

Why is it such a stretch? He had a better year this year than last. He improved almost all of his numbers with a much less talented team (at least from the starters). I actually think this year was a better year for him...more deserving of the MVP than last year. Last year it was the cute pick...this year it's more legit if you ask me. The whole "travesty" is that there are a lot of trendy picks this year because there have been a lot of damn good years around the league...last year it was Shaq and Nash...that's pretty much it. There are going to be a lot more people speaking out for their player or whatever.

And Kobe for MVP is a joke...you don't get MVP with the 7th seed in the west. The one criteria for MVP should be at least win your division...sheesh...not come in 3rd. But he IS the best player in the league. It should be like baseball...you've got your MVP and your silver slugger award for the best offensive player. Give him that one.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:04 pm

This Mavs/Grizzlies game is one of the ugliest games I have ever seen. So sloppy and a TON of offensive fouls on moving screens. I can barely stay awake.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:30 pm

And now the Suns are getting blown out...good times. Haven't scored in 9 min. now. That hasn't happened in two years. Unreal...just went ice cold.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:45 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Why is it such a stretch? He had a better year this year than last. He improved almost all of his numbers with a much less talented team (at least from the starters). I actually think this year was a better year for him...more deserving of the MVP than last year. Last year it was the cute pick...this year it's more legit if you ask me. The whole "travesty" is that there are a lot of trendy picks this year because there have been a lot of damn good years around the league...last year it was Shaq and Nash...that's pretty much it. There are going to be a lot more people speaking out for their player or whatever.

It's a stretch because it's even harder than last year to prove that he's even the best player on his own team, because his team was not an elite team (10 games behind the best record in the league and 3-7 against the top 3 teams), because he did not have an overwhelming individual peformance (like LeBron or Kobe)... it's a goofy pick based on some kind of weird Nash formula on how good they should have been because of an injury. Hell, maybe Nash *himself* will get hurt playing soccer in the offseason, miss the entire year, and win his THIRD straight MVP because the Suns go 21-61. I see no reason not to give it to him every year based on the goofy logic that they are giving it to him this year for.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:35 pm

But why is the logic any different than it was last year when he turned a 29-53 team into a 62-20? Amare was there, so was Marion. Wouldn't it have been more of a stretch last year than this year?

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:50 pm

It's tough to just look at stats too. Iverson shot 3% better, scored more, and had 60% more assists this season than his MVP season.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:00 pm

Leebo33 wrote:It's tough to just look at stats too. Iverson shot 3% better, scored more, and had 60% more assists this season than his MVP season.

Who's just looking at stats? Not me.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:55 pm

The Bulls looked impressive tonight. It was nice to see them take it to the Heat after 2 very close games in Miami. Let's see if they can tie the series up Sunday.

Oh, and I have no problem with Nash winning the MVP.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:57 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Kazuya wrote:He deserved it last year, they had the best record when they were awful the year before and he was clearly the reason why. But him getting it this year is just too much of a stretch.
Why is it such a stretch? He had a better year this year than last. He improved almost all of his numbers with a much less talented team (at least from the starters). I actually think this year was a better year for him...more deserving of the MVP than last year. Last year it was the cute pick...this year it's more legit if you ask me. The whole "travesty" is that there are a lot of trendy picks this year because there have been a lot of damn good years around the league...last year it was Shaq and Nash...that's pretty much it. There are going to be a lot more people speaking out for their player or whatever.

And Kobe for MVP is a joke...you don't get MVP with the 7th seed in the west. The one criteria for MVP should be at least win your division...sheesh...not come in 3rd. But he IS the best player in the league. It should be like baseball...you've got your MVP and your silver slugger award for the best offensive player. Give him that one.

Kobe needs to work on making his teammates better players like MJ did. I know Nash is no MJ, but at least he makes the players around him better.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:13 pm

Inuyasha wrote:Kobe needs to work on making his teammates better players like MJ did. I know Nash is no MJ, but at least he makes the players around him better.

Completely different kind of player and role on the team. I'm talking Nash versus Kobe.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:15 am

How did the Suns get a #2 seed? They don't play any defense, seem to just run and shoot, and on top of that take some dumb shots.

The Lakers aren't really playing great basketball but at least they are playing defense which is the difference in the series.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:30 am

Actually the Suns are just shooting bad. If they shoot anywhere close to what they did during the regular season...they would be up 3-0. They just keep missing open shots. All of my Laker fan friends are just surprised how it's turning out because of that. Sure, the Lakers are doing a better job of covering the shooters, but Leandro Barbosa for example, who was third in the league in 3pt percentage...has made 1 out of about 6 absolutely WIDE OPEN shots. I can only assume that the nerves are getting the best of him. Boris Diaw, same thing. These are guys who have never played significant minutes in the playoffs, if any at all, and they don't know how to handle the pressure I guess. Hopefully they come around, but it's not looking good.

It certainly is a result of the Zen Master just pounding the ball down low EVERY time down the floor...they are just taking the wind out of the Suns. They just don't have the legs when they get to the offensive end. That's the only thing I can assume. Kobe is playing within the offense and it's working perfectly. All I can say is that Phil Jackson gets credit for figuring out how to beat the Suns. It certainly helps that the Suns are missing their two best big men and now Tim Thomas is dinged and Brian Grant has been a no show because of food poisoning. Gonna be rough to come back.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:44 am

Here's some interestings stats: The Suns never have held a 2-0 lead in a playoff series against the Lakers in 10 tries. Los Angeles beat Phoenix for the first time in nine games when the Suns had Nash in the lineup.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 1:55 am

10spro wrote:Here's some interestings stats: The Suns never have held a 2-0 lead in a playoff series against the Lakers in 10 tries. Los Angeles beat Phoenix for the first time in nine games when the Suns had Nash in the lineup.

Seems to me, you're like 1 game late on those stats.

Lakers are up 2-1 and they have beaten the Suns twice now with Nash in the lineup.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:34 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
10spro wrote:Here's some interestings stats: The Suns never have held a 2-0 lead in a playoff series against the Lakers in 10 tries. Los Angeles beat Phoenix for the first time in nine games when the Suns had Nash in the lineup.
Seems to me, you're like 1 game late on those stats.

Lakers are up 2-1 and they have beaten the Suns twice now with Nash in the lineup.

OK?

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:15 pm

Kobe says I got your MVP right here b*tch!