Stanley Cup Playoffs thread

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:46 pm

PK, you are missing a gem of the game. Unbelievable action and tenacity.

And seriously, who is that in goal for the Flyers, because surely it is not Robert Esche.

Lastly, now that we've all seen the hit 9000 times, does anyone else think it's a charge?? Not that I expect them to call it, but Campbell left his feet to 'jump' to get shoulder to chin. If he hadn't jumped, it would've been shoulder to shoulder and far less devastating. According to NHL rules, leaving your feet to make a check is an automatic penalty, no ifs, ands or buts.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:55 pm

I always thought u needed to make more then 2 strides towards a player ot be called for a Charge...maybe that is what I was taught at Ref School.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:59 pm

F*CK. Buffalo is in for one hell of a series.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:03 pm

Zlax45 wrote:I always thought u needed to make more then 2 strides towards a player ot be called for a Charge...maybe that is what I was taught at Ref School.

NHL Rule 47; http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/rulebook/rule47.html

Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A "Charge" may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice.

1. A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates or jumps into, or charges an opponent in any manner.
2. When a major penalty is imposed under this Rule for a foul resulting in an injury to the face or head of an opponent, a game misconduct shall be imposed, and an automatic fine of one hundred dollars ($100).

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:06 pm

Naples39 wrote:PK, you are missing a gem of the game. Unbelievable action and tenacity.

Yeah, I know! At least Jeanrette makes it sound great on NHL.com audio.

Take care,
PK

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:18 pm

Naples39 wrote: And seriously, who is that in goal for the Flyers, because surely it is not Robert Esche.

You must not have seen him play in the 2004 playoffs. He was outstanding then, too.

The refereeing in the first period was about as bad as you will see. Mike Knuble almost had his nose cut off by an obvious high stick and both referees somehow missed it. And it would have given the Flyers a 5 on 3 for over 90 seconds.

The Flyers broadcasters were appalled at the way the Buffalo Arena showed the hit on Umberger and the bloody aftermath over and over. I don't understand why all hits to the head aren't illegal, whether they are done with the shoulder or the elbow. The NHL loses enough good players to post concussion syndrome as it is. Imagine Rugby if head high tackles weren't illegal.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:28 pm

Hit looked clean to Me but then again Im not a Flyer or Sabre fan...

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:29 pm

Feanor wrote:
Naples39 wrote: And seriously, who is that in goal for the Flyers, because surely it is not Robert Esche.
You must not have seen him play in the 2004 playoffs. He was outstanding then, too.

The refereeing in the first period was about as bad as you will see. Mike Knuble almost had his nose cut off by an obvious high stick and both referees somehow missed it. And it would have given the Flyers a 5 on 3 for over 90 seconds.

Funny you say that....I am actually a pretty big Flyers fan, and saw every playoff game from 04, and have seen close to every single game this year. That was by far the best game he's played all year, and probably better than any game from 04 IMO. I know Esche is capable of playing very good games, but never, ever before has he ever single-handedly withstood wave after wave of attacks from a team like that to keep them off the scoreboard for 60+ minutes. Hell, Patrick Roy would've been proud of a performance like that.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:33 pm

Well I don't remember him having 50+ saves, but I've certainly seen him with force-field up before. He certainly is able to step up a notch when it comes to the playoffs, but I don't see the Flyers winning this series with the players they have out injured and the players that are playing hurt. I knew Rathje hs ben hurt for a while, but tonight they said Hatcher is also playing with an injury. And those two guys are slow enough to begin with.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:43 pm

Feanor wrote:I knew Rathje hs ben hurt for a while, but tonight they said Hatcher is also playing with an injury. And those two guys are slow enough to begin with.

Truer words were never said.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:43 pm

Naples39 wrote:PK, you are missing a gem of the game. Unbelievable action and tenacity.

And seriously, who is that in goal for the Flyers, because surely it is not Robert Esche.

Lastly, now that we've all seen the hit 9000 times, does anyone else think it's a charge?? Not that I expect them to call it, but Campbell left his feet to 'jump' to get shoulder to chin. If he hadn't jumped, it would've been shoulder to shoulder and far less devastating. According to NHL rules, leaving your feet to make a check is an automatic penalty, no ifs, ands or buts.

Umberger got caught with his head down. He was carrying the puck and ready to speedbusrt into action and he got caught. It was a clean hit.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:49 pm

10spro wrote:Umberger got caught with his head down. He was carrying the puck and ready to speedbusrt into action and he got caught. It was a clean hit.

Yes, Umberger got caught with his head down. Yes, it was shoulder first. Yet no one has addressed the issue I raised--he jumped to make the check, which exponentially increased the severity of the hit to change it from shoulder-to-shoulder into shoulder-to-jaw. Under NHL rules, you jump to make a check, it's a charge, end of discussion. It's a black and white issue. Now if you don't think he jumped fine, but saying Umberger had his head down with the puck is completely irrelevant.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:54 pm

I didn't actually see the hit cause I was out of the TV room when it happened, but now I really want to see it. If you read the rule Naples39 posted it's clear that if he jumped, it should have been a penalty.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:56 pm

I dont think he jumped. I think he was in mid stride. Was a clean hit. Im sticking to My story.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:49 am

Feanor wrote:I didn't actually see the hit cause I was out of the TV room when it happened, but now I really want to see it. If you read the rule Naples39 posted it's clear that if he jumped, it should have been a penalty.

Okay, I am officially making much too big a deal of this point, but may as well properly finish what I started....

Campbell obviously got airborne, the tricky question is did the contact push him upwards (and thus no penalty), or did he jump to make the hit? I've seen it a bunch of times and I think his skates are about 3 inches off the ground before any contact is made. The honest reality is that charging is a little understood rule; http://www.infocomcanada.com/afterthewh ... arging.htm

"The charging rule often causes confusion because it states that a penalty will be assessed for taking more than two strides when you hit someone. It must be pointed out that the two stride rule only applies to the final strides you take before hitting a player. A person may take 50 hard strides to get to a player and then coast into him. This will not usually result in a charging penalty simply because the player did not try to pick up speed at the end of the trip.

If the last two or three meters before you hit someone after taking a healthy charge at them are spent gliding into this person, then it is difficult to call a charging penalty because the feet are no longer moving. This is a key point, so let me repeat it – the feet are no longer moving."

According that interpretation, even if Campbell was simply midstride it doesn't seem that would negate the charge.

Anyway, I have said way too much on the issue already, and anyone can watch the hit and draw their own conclusions....I won't be posting about it anymore....

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:59 am

Naples39 wrote: Campbell obviously got airborne, the tricky question is did the contact push him upwards (and thus no penalty), or did he jump to make the hit? .

I dont believe he jumped to hit...you see air because that was the natural result of the play...in mid stride as he was hitting there was air...I didnt see a jump...I saw one the best hits of all time...

I do understand though...you are a Flyer fan ...I feel ya

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:43 am

The hit was so clean, that it would make Don Cherry and even Bobby Clarke proud. Naples, you seem to be the only one thinking it was a dirty one, that's cool, all eyes are different man. And don't think that if that was D. Gauthier, the other guy would not be dead by now.

Campell anticipated the play and got his shoulder ready. But hey, Scott Stevens made a career of making hits like that, just ask E. Lindros. Maybe it was the impact that makes it look sickening (like I said Umberger was going at full speed)and I do wish that the guy is OK.(As reported in the dressing room.)

When you open the papers in the morning I doubt you'll find any writter calling the hit a "dirty one". Even better, I'll save you some time, just read what his coach said here and what I mentioned earlier.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2 ... id=2418488

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:54 am

I don't think it was an illegal hit. By definition it was clean but as far as the NHL is concerned that type of hit is just bad for business. Concussions are one of the biggest issues in the league and hits like Campbell's need to go. Right now the Flyers captain (Primeau) is on the shelf due to concussions. He is a warrior and cannot function on the ice months after the hit. I like clean checking just as much as the next guy but this type of hit is not a good thing. Just my 2 cents. Looks like Umberger may even play on Monday.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:55 am

All hits to the head should be illegal. It works in rugby and rugby league and it would work in hockey. You could still crush people with huge hits to the chest so the game would still be physical. But unfortunately the NHL is only going to act when say Sidney Crosby's career is ended at age 20 by a shoulder or elbow to his chin that leaves him like Brett Lindros. And then it'll be too late.

Pat LaFontaine and Eric Lindros were two of my favourite players when I first started watching hockey in the early 90s.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:59 pm

Finally saw the hit on the Net, as OLN didn't show the game here due to blackout restrictions.

Clean hit. No question. Campbell's momentum is what lifted him off the ground through Umberger, just as you're taught. Plus, his left foot never left the ice. Campbell didn't leave his feet on the hit. It wasn't charging.

Campbell isn't the person in the wrong here. Umberger is. He'll know now to keep his head up entering the neutral zone with speed.

Campbell was NOT head-hunting. His entire body went through Umberger. Sorry, but that hit was clean as the proverbial whistle.

GREAT hit. Better than anything I saw in the NFL last season!

Take care,
PK

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:39 pm

Diablo25 wrote:F*CK. Buffalo is in for one hell of a series.

Buffalo is in for one helluva series?

Tim

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:06 pm

tjung0831 wrote:
Diablo25 wrote:F*CK. Buffalo is in for one hell of a series.
Buffalo is in for one helluva series?

Tim

This is the playoffs game everyone will be watching from now on. Like BUFF's coach L. Ruff said if Philly wants to declare war, "bring it on"....

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:15 pm

10spro wrote:
tjung0831 wrote:
Diablo25 wrote:F*CK. Buffalo is in for one hell of a series.
Buffalo is in for one helluva series?

Tim
This is the playoffs game everyone will be watching from now on. Like BUFF's coach L. Ruff said if Philly wants to declare war, "bring it on"....

I really believe that the Sabres speed and depth are going to carry them into the conference final. I love Lindy Ruff, loved him when he played, love him as a coach. He loves his guys no doubt about it and you can tell they love playing for him. He's faced some battles in his life, including the death of his younger brother Brent who was killed on that Swift Current Broncos bus crash 20 years ago or so. Joe Sakic sat only 4 rows behind the guys that were killed. Talk about fate...

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:46 pm

10spro wrote:
tjung0831 wrote:
Diablo25 wrote:F*CK. Buffalo is in for one hell of a series.
Buffalo is in for one helluva series?

Tim
This is the playoffs game everyone will be watching from now on. Like BUFF's coach L. Ruff said if Philly wants to declare war, "bring it on"....

If Philly wants to declare war because a rookie with his head down was leveled by a clean hit, then Ken Hitchcock is a bigger moron that I thought ...

Take care,
PK

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:08 pm

No pk, Hitchcock knows it was a clean hit and said so in his interview. I think there was a lot of other s**t going on between these two teams before the hit, (you know WWE bad mouth thrash talk) etc. And given the fact that the teams are evenly matched and the excitement this game brought last night, maybe the media and other sources are making it sound like a war. Of course the hit didn't help.