TOCA 3 Impressions Thread

nyisles16 · Post by **nyisles16** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:25 am

it's ok.. i have done two rally races so far -- had to do one several times cause i kept on missing the turns..

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:03 pm

I hate the Busch Trucks. I thought I could quickly progress through the oval pro series last night. On the final lap at Gateway I got blackflagged because I was a little high and ran into another truck. The are a hassle to drive and not very fun for me atleast. On the turns, with no tweaks you really have to slow down or else you will shoot right off of the line and into the wall.

I think the CPU qualifying times were determined by codies to be completely random. What did they base the qualifying times on. At Indy and Dover sometimes I can be as much as 2 seconds ahead. The other two ovals I'm 20 out 20. I don't get it. That brings down the single player mode a bit in that if qualifying isn't a battle as it should be. Too bad we couldn't modify qualifying times. Racing games never seem to get this right for the CPU.

There's no way I'm that good at these tracks.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:20 pm

anyone try the Indy cars yet?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:31 pm

JackB1 wrote:anyone try the Indy cars yet?

Yes. We raced them online last night.

They are CRAZY with a capital C. Not quite as twitchy as the American 1000 Indy-style cars from TOCA 2 but not nailed to the track as much as the cars in the IndyCar Series games.

It was too easy to unrealistically powerslide the American 1000 cars on ovals in TOCA 2. That's gone in TOCA 3. In fact, the cars suffer from inherent understeer, so throttle control and driving clean lines is vital. Much easier said than done, as our carnage show last night at Indy will attest.

But those cars are massive fun, and I can imagine some great online races at Indy once everyone gets a better handle on the cars.

The Indy cars have a sick sense of speed, especially at Indy.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:33 pm

JRod wrote:I hate the Busch Trucks. I thought I could quickly progress through the oval pro series last night. On the final lap at Gateway I got blackflagged because I was a little high and ran into another truck. The are a hassle to drive and not very fun for me atleast. On the turns, with no tweaks you really have to slow down or else you will shoot right off of the line and into the wall.

I'll take a different approach: I really like the trucks! They're slower and more forgiving than the Indy cars, and you really have to drive them because of their weight and crummy brakes. You can't nail the throttle wide open.

Take care,
PK

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:15 pm

After picking up the game last Friday and getting in on the first DSP TRD3 racing session, I have basically been unable to play for the last several days. I finally got a chance to start playing the offline mode last night (well early this morning) for the first time. I have some questions that I think are still unanswered as I have read through this thread and some on the Codemasters board.

I am trying to get Rich Tysoe, the Motorsports public relations liason for Codemasters, to either come check out our board, or at least definitively answer some questions over at their forums, which are kind of all over the place right now. Anyway, questions and/or problems that I have encountered with the game are as follows. Let me know if there is anything you all think we should add to this, or if there are already definitive answers to these questions, and I will try to update this post, sort of like a mini-FAQ.

1) It appears that no matter what changes you make to the Pro-Sim settings, these do not save in the profile after you turn off the game. They need to be reset eveytime you start the game. Will this be fixed in an upcoming patch?

2) There seems to be some question of whether Pro-Sim settings are felt in the World Tour mode? Can you answer this definitively? If so, I assume the Pro-Sim settings need to be checked before you start a World Tour?

3) In multiplayer on Xbox, the host can set Pro-Sim settings, however in the individual setups it appears that each player can still check these settings on or off. What takes precedence? If the host is setup for Pro-Sim, is that set for everyone regardless of what their indivudual settings are?

4) It appears that the lap record leader boards do not differentiate between Pro-Sim and normal settings. A best lap will not post unless you beat the internal lap record, which appears to be set in normal mode as some of the times appear completely out of reach if Pro-Sim settings are being used. Any possibility that this will be changed or patched in the future to allow for laps to be posted strictly for full Pro-Sim settings?

5) Will there be leaderboards available online like there was for TOCA 2?

6) Is there anyway to save a season in the Pro-Career mode other than the workaround described below? If not, is this something that may be fixed in a patch?

Well, something weird is going on. It does some sort of auto-save after a race, but there is no option to return to the main menu other than "retire from Championship."

However, it does seem that, at least in Pro Career mode (and I assume Free Race mode as well), if you eject the game or turn off the machine while in the Championship's menu screen, it will keep that Championship active. It will show a little race helmet icon to indicate the Championship that you have a saved game going. I don't know if you can have more than one going at once.

Why there is no reasonable save interface boggles the mind, but discovering that you can continue a Championship from session to session at least somehow is a huge weight lifted. Pro Career is bascially useless without it!

7) If you have rear view mirror checked in the options, it appears that the rear-view mirror is not available in the normal cockpit view, but it is available in all the other views? Why is this, and could this be changed in a patch?

Again, let me know if I am missing anything, or if I don't know what I am talking about.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:17 pm

pk500 wrote:I'll take a different approach: I really like the trucks! They're slower and more forgiving than the Indy cars, and you really have to drive them because of their weight and crummy brakes. You can't nail the throttle wide open.

Yeah, that's what I like about the 1930's GP cars as well. You really have to change your braking points and turn in to keep them on the road.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:23 pm

All great questions, Don. If Rich doesn't answer them, I'll try to send them to my contact at Codemasters, Sarah Brockhurst in Marketing, for some answers.

Take care,
PK

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:20 pm

pk500 wrote: In fact, the cars suffer from inherent understeer, so throttle control and driving clean lines is vital. Much easier said than done, as our carnage show last night at Indy will attest.

That's exactly what I was trying to explain, albeit unsuccessfully, before. Getting them into the corner at speed, and maintaining a proper line is a real pain sometimes, but good throttle control will nail it every time. Coming off the corner, I find myself twitching away from the wall and shooting low, which would be disastrous if running wheel to wheel with somebody

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:20 pm

DChaps wrote: 2) There seems to be some question of whether Pro-Sim settings are felt in the World Tour mode? Can you answer this definitively? If so, I assume the Pro-Sim settings need to be checked before you start a World Tour?

I believe we have discovered definitively that Pro-Sim setting do work in World Tour mode, but you have to go into the main options and turn them on every time you boot up the game. As opposed to Hard and Normal options for World Tour mode, you can turn Pro-Sim options on or off as you go. You just have to go into the main menu options to access the settings, so you kind of have to do it between Series.

DChaps wrote: 3) In multiplayer on Xbox, the host can set Pro-Sim settings, however in the individual setups it appears that each player can still check these settings on or off. What takes precedence? If the host is setup for Pro-Sim, is that set for everyone regardless of what their indivudual settings are?

Again, I am pretty sure we have figured this out. Personal Pro-Sim option settings selected in the 'select car' area (hit X button when in 'select car') do not seem to have any effect, at least in rooms where the host has set damage, handling, and gravel traps to Pro-Sim.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:35 pm

Now that I've put some serious time into this game with Pro-Sim settings, I'm starting to believe that the acceleration model sizes up very favorably with Forza, pretty much the gold standard for console driving models in this generation of consoles.

Cars will twitch or spin like hell when accelerating without conscience while using Pro-Sim settings, especially cars with little downforce or a ton of power compared to weight.

But I think Forza still has the edge with its realism under braking. Cars understeer more accurately and braking is a bit more nervewracking in Forza than in TOCA 3, but the comparison is much closer than with TOCA 2.

And TOCA 3 simply CRUSHES Forza as a racing game, with its great AI and selection of real circuits and cars.

Take care,
PK

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:24 pm

Braking seems way too easy in TOCA 3, even in Pro-Sim mode. Is it even possible to lock up your brakes? I haven't yet, and there have been plenty of times I should have locked 'em up and slid into the kitty litter. Basically you can stop on a dime at will in this game.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:29 pm

lex:

Yes it's possible, but it depends entirely on the car class. I've locked them up pretty well when I cooked it heading into a corner before, but it's pretty uncommon unless you get into a heated duel and just overshoot the entry by a mile.

Sometimes it almost feels to me as if there's a few subtle driving aids on all the time, without an option to turn them off. That's fine with me, I won't scream for absolute realism when it sacrifices fun. I get great racing with TOCA 3, even with a forgiving braking model. One thing I've found, especially in cars like the Lotus 49: if you brake while turning, you're done. Straight line braking is VERY tough to lock up the brakes with, especially when compared to Forza, which is too far in the opposite direction. There's a lot of predal you can press in a real car before lockup occurs, but Forza modeled it too much...a trigger doesn't have the throw range of a pedal so it always felt out of whack to me.

Try taking the Fairlady Z (I think that's what it was that we were using against NSX's in one race?). You won't lock up the tires, but you'll change your "stop on a dime" thought process right there

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:33 pm

Lex:

The braking model in TOCA 3 is forgiving. But take any heavy, old car, and that will end the "stop on a dime" notions.

Try the late 60s and early 70s muscle cars, such as the Pontiac GTO. Absolute pigs, but very fun, especially on Pro-Sim.

Take care,
PK

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:42 pm

My last post on Trucks - try braking in them. I hate them!

Is anybody finding that Hard is a bit easy. I've had to go to custom mode to get the AI to race harder on some classes and tracks. I can easily smoke the AI with a good qualifying spot and getting out fast in the first lap or so.

I don't know what percent "hard" is set as.

Ya Ya I know I should try to say that it's easy after I've raced against PK and Terry but I don't race Toca most of the time when you cats are on.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:44 pm

I agree, with cars like the Silver Arrows, the 30's Grand Prix cars and the 60's Lotus, you can't do ANYTHING "on a dime", which is part of the fun of driving them.

I just wish some of the more modern cars, especially the open-wheeled cars like the Formula 1000s and Formula BMWs were a little more challenging in the braking department.

I don't mean to nitpick, it's a small blemish in an otherwise AWESOME racing game. In fact, since some of these tracks are unfamiliar territory for me, it's probably a good thing the braking is as forgiving as it is.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:02 pm

JRod wrote:My last post on Trucks - try braking in them. I hate them!

Is anybody finding that Hard is a bit easy. I've had to go to custom mode to get the AI to race harder on some classes and tracks. I can easily smoke the AI with a good qualifying spot and getting out fast in the first lap or so.

I don't know what percent "hard" is set as.

Ya Ya I know I should try to say that it's easy after I've raced against PK and Terry but I don't race Toca most of the time when you cats are on.

No, John, you're right: Hard seems easier than in TOCA 2, even on Pro-Sim.

I'm not sure what percentage Hard is set, but it's a good thing that custom CPU AI is available. I found that 92-94 percent worked really well for me in TOCA 2 except for in Supercopas, in which I raced at 100 percent. I LOVED those cars!

Take care,
PK

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:08 pm

I really do think that there are some driving aids that you can't shut off.

I noticed it a lot in the rallycross tracks...I'd flat-out around a corner and I'd hear the throttle back off and then apply again. I'm not talking where I'd contact the track and lose some power, I mean it was like a governor switch was put on it mid-corner.

Some classes and tracks are more prevalent than others, especially with the lighter cars. I think a lot of what makes it so hard to lock the brakes up is some kind of behind-the-scenes ABS aid.

I woudn't be surprised if Codies released some sort of "Hardcore Pro-Sim" code a few weeks from now, because while it's a fantastic driving model and the best racing game I've ever played on a console (maybe game ever, actually), it definitely sacrifices a bit more realism than TOCA2 did, probably in an attempt to grab a wider audience.

Kruza · Post by **Kruza** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:47 pm

lexbur wrote:Braking seems way too easy in TOCA 3, even in Pro-Sim mode. Is it even possible to lock up your brakes? I haven't yet, and there have been plenty of times I should have locked 'em up and slid into the kitty litter. Basically you can stop on a dime at will in this game.

Uh, just wait until you get into one of those DTM cars. It's so easy to lock the brakes in these cars that you'll have to learn to "feather" them just as much as you do the throttle.

Kruza

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:19 pm

All,

Anyone played to the end of the World Tour mode? I know Zep was rattling through it to get some championships unlocked and I'm hoping a few others have too, since I need to be convinced that completion of the final tier is actually possible.

The series in question is the Williams Team Challenge, with the FW11B, FW18 and FW27 on track together. The objectives say you must finish 1st in the championship, which is fine, or would be if I wasn't in the 11B. Does anyone know if the game gives you the chance to try the championship in one of the newer cars if you fail to win it in the 1987 car?

It's impossible to run with the 2005 cars as things stand. Most of the time I can live with them in the corners - at Brands Hatch I'm faster than them for some reason - but give them any sort of straight to play with and they're off into the far distance. The fastest AI lap at Donington Park was a 59.xx by an FW27, mine in the 11B was a high 1:07.xx and even knowing there are folk faster than me, there's no way on this Earth you'll find 8 seconds on me around one lap of Donington in the same car.

I've been on the Codies forums and found that apparently nobody else can do it either, but for some reason they're all failing in the 1996 car rather than the 1987 one. Help...

Cheers,
Simo

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:43 am

I have not gotten that far yet, but I have read many of the same threads you are refering to. I have not seen it verified yet by anyone at Codemasters, but it seems to be a huge bug to me. Can anyone confirm if they have been able to pass this, and if so had did they do it?

My concern in knowing whether or not it can be done is that if they end up releasing a patch, most likely any world tour save game you have going will be null and void, so you could be in a situation where you have to start over. I may just concentrate on the series championships instead of the world tour for now.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:10 am

The muscle cars in World Mode are woefully unmatched. One class can't get move ahead of 2nd gear.

Boltman · Post by **Boltman** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:14 am

GB_Simo wrote:All,

Anyone played to the end of the World Tour mode? I know Zep was rattling through it to get some championships unlocked and I'm hoping a few others have too, since I need to be convinced that completion of the final tier is actually possible.

The series in question is the Williams Team Challenge, with the FW11B, FW18 and FW27 on track together. The objectives say you must finish 1st in the championship, which is fine, or would be if I wasn't in the 11B. Does anyone know if the game gives you the chance to try the championship in one of the newer cars if you fail to win it in the 1987 car?

It's impossible to run with the 2005 cars as things stand. Most of the time I can live with them in the corners - at Brands Hatch I'm faster than them for some reason - but give them any sort of straight to play with and they're off into the far distance. The fastest AI lap at Donington Park was a 59.xx by an FW27, mine in the 11B was a high 1:07.xx and even knowing there are folk faster than me, there's no way on this Earth you'll find 8 seconds on me around one lap of Donington in the same car.

I've been on the Codies forums and found that apparently nobody else can do it either, but for some reason they're all failing in the 1996 car rather than the 1987 one. Help...

Cheers,
Simo

I'm not going to lie bro, I got so frustrated, I used a few cheats, well not a few, just that turbo boost. Still....no way in hell I am beating them on those tracks. Has anyone even!?

PhiPsi1 · Post by **PhiPsi1** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:51 pm

fellas,

just wanted to get some questions answered from the HUGE toca 3 following on this board...like some others mentioned earlier, i'm not into racing just because in the past i have found gran turismo and other such games becoming EXTREMELY boring and repetitive, due to the "ai" ALWAYS following a certain line...they have no sense of the fact that there are other cars on the track at all!!! it gets frustrating for me atleast...

anyways, i just wanted to get a good description of how the ai is on this game...do they adapt the the driving situation at hand? how does the ai react for the most part? unfortunately, i will not be going online with this game so my main focus will be on the single player aspect..
how is the longevity and learning curve of this game...i read about the world tour mode and career mode and the only difference seems to me lies in the fact that you get some british guy in world tour mode, more cutscenes i suppose, BUT in career mode you get to delve into each race type much deeper than in world tour...

just wanted to get some feedback for a racing newbie right here that is COMPLETELY frustrated with past racing games like gran turismo and such and wants to have try and experiment in other genres besides basketball, soccer, tennis, and baseball....

one last question, do u think this game falls into the category of a "winning eleven-esque" type game meaning it is by far the BEST simulation of the sport on the market right now, like mlb:06 is for baseball and winning eleven is for soccer, my own honest opinion

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:26 am

Just read the rest of this thread...it answers all of your questions.