DSP WE9 League Discussion Thread
Moderators: Bill_Abner, ScoopBrady
mobiggins wrote:I wouldn't be opposed to average teams, if that's the general consensus. Would we let the division 2 players use superteams?
That's my idea. The wouldn't have to if they don't want to, but it seems to me there is a super class of team that only has about 10 teams in it, if that. I know there must be some kind of team ranking we can find oline, but teams like AC Milan, Juventus, Arsenal, etc. make up a pretty small group.
What I am proposing is that those in the 3-star category be allowed to have teams from this group, while those in the 4 and 5- star categories cannot. There are still some pretty potent teams in the next tier, but it is a much larger tier.
My preference is random with one veto per player, but that's because I'm too lazy to make a choice for myself.
I will if I have to.
I think u guys are putting to much emphasis on team selection. just limit the better division to a group of pretty even teams and limit the lower division to a group of evenly matched better teams. but lets decide something and run with it. you are going to lose interest in this league if we dont get underway soon.
I think most of the wait is allowing Mo to get back into town. He's gone until the 19th I believe and he's the main man orchestrating things.JackB1 wrote:I think u guys are putting to much emphasis on team selection. just limit the better division to a group of pretty even teams and limit the lower division to a group of evenly matched better teams. but lets decide something and run with it. you are going to lose interest in this league if we dont get underway soon.
I don't know about 'too much emphasis on team selection.' Team selection is pretty much going to determine the heart of the league experience for most players. I think we owe it to ourselves to make it right the first time. Those that are in for the long haul don't mind waiting a week or two to get everyone happy with a fair and competitive group of teams before we start playing games. I plan on sticking with this league for months and months. A couple weeks getting right here will pay off in July and August.AtXj wrote:I think most of the wait is allowing Mo to get back into town. He's gone until the 19th I believe and he's the main man orchestrating things.JackB1 wrote:I think u guys are putting to much emphasis on team selection. just limit the better division to a group of pretty even teams and limit the lower division to a group of evenly matched better teams. but lets decide something and run with it. you are going to lose interest in this league if we dont get underway soon.
Of course, we can always revisit team selection after a couple of season cylces, too.
But yeah, Jack, I think you essentially have it right. For my money, I like the idea of the 3-star guys getting the top teams, the rest getting the second tier teams. The issue we have is how to make that team assignment so that everyone is happy with their team? So, we have to get a ranking of the teams (there should be some stuff online for this), and them some kind of team assignment protocol (options could include pick 3 choices in order of preference, random dice roll, draft etc.). Schedule etc. will work itself out pretty straightforwardly.
FWIW I think stats should be limited to goals, bookings, and injuries. It would be nice to input all the info (like players who played, post-game ratings, team stat totals etc.), but inputting that stuff is far too tedious.
Yeah, Jack...I'm out of town until Sunday, and realistically, I can't play my first match until Tuesday evening. So, that's the delay.
Anyway, I'm all for the second division getting the better teams, but then what? For instance, I'd like to play as Valencia, and I know they're pretty good, but are they top-tier? I'd also like Galatasaray, but are they too weak? That's the problem we enter into when we open it up to such a wide group of teams. You're right, Zeppo. We need to find some objective online ranking that doesn't involve comparing trapezoidal shapes that don't quite tell you what you need to know, a la the actual game's team selection screen.
And like Zeppo, I love playing this game, and I'm in it for the very long haul, so if anybody has problems with committing time to this game, now's the time to drop out of this league. I think a game as amazing as WE deserves our commitment.
Anyway, I'm all for the second division getting the better teams, but then what? For instance, I'd like to play as Valencia, and I know they're pretty good, but are they top-tier? I'd also like Galatasaray, but are they too weak? That's the problem we enter into when we open it up to such a wide group of teams. You're right, Zeppo. We need to find some objective online ranking that doesn't involve comparing trapezoidal shapes that don't quite tell you what you need to know, a la the actual game's team selection screen.
And like Zeppo, I love playing this game, and I'm in it for the very long haul, so if anybody has problems with committing time to this game, now's the time to drop out of this league. I think a game as amazing as WE deserves our commitment.
Well, I can't figure it out. I can't seem to find any team ranking anywhere. The closest thing I came up with was a ranking in a Polish PES forum, but it was for last years game. And it was in Polish. But it was also just a straight ranking of the teams, with no kind of score or anything, just a list in order.
I know such things are out there, as I've seen them for previous versions, but I can't find them.
I think there may be 10 or 15 teams that we would agree are in a tier of their own. From there, I suggest the next tier is at least twice as large, maybe bigger. I say we let 3-star guys get a team from any of these top two tiers, and the 4- and 5-star guys get a team from any but that top tier (that is, only from the second tier). And I still think it should be semi-random in some way. Or how about this, everyone else can pick a team (pick your top 3 choices is not a bad way to go), and I can have one assigned by random (with one chance to re-roll).
Frustrated I can't find any kind of club team scoring/ranking anywhere. They just must be out there, somewhere. . .
I know such things are out there, as I've seen them for previous versions, but I can't find them.
I think there may be 10 or 15 teams that we would agree are in a tier of their own. From there, I suggest the next tier is at least twice as large, maybe bigger. I say we let 3-star guys get a team from any of these top two tiers, and the 4- and 5-star guys get a team from any but that top tier (that is, only from the second tier). And I still think it should be semi-random in some way. Or how about this, everyone else can pick a team (pick your top 3 choices is not a bad way to go), and I can have one assigned by random (with one chance to re-roll).
Frustrated I can't find any kind of club team scoring/ranking anywhere. They just must be out there, somewhere. . .
Well alrighty then. Using the pentagonal shapes, here is what I have come up with:
Anyway, this is I think a place to start. If we take the asterisked teams out, the middle tier is still a big group with a lot of variation. Those teams in parentheses could be thrown into the middle group as well, but they are all just that much better than the rest, so I don't know where to draw the line there.
Suggestions for tweaks and further discussion encouraged.
- Top Tier
Arsenal
(Liverpool)
Chelsea
Man U
(Olympique Lyonnais)
(Bayern Munich)
AC Milan
Juventus
Inter
(PSV Eindhoven)
(Atletico Madrid)
Barcelona
Real Madrid
(Valencia)
(RC Deportivo)
- Bottom Tier
Sunderland
Le Mans UC
AS Nancy
ESTAC
FC Koln
Eintracht Frankfurt
MSV Duisburg
FC Kaiserslautern
FSV Mainz
Ascoli
Cagliari
Empoli
Treviso
Siena
ADO Den Haag
FC Groningen
NEC Nijmegen
Heracles Almelo
NAC Breda
RBC Roosendaal
RKC Waalwijk
SC Heerenveen
Sparta Rotterdam
Vitesse
Willem II
Cadiz
Malaga CF
Getafe CF
Racing Santander
Real Sociedad
RCD Mallorca
Djurgardens IF (?)
FC Kopenhagen
Panathinaikos
Rosenborg BK
AC Sparta Praha
- Middle Tier
Aston Villa
Birmingham City
Blackburn Rovers
Bolton Wanderers
Fulham
Everton
Charlton Athletic
Machester City
Middlesbrough
Newcastle United
Portsmouth*
Wigan Athletic*
West Ham United
West Bromwich Albion
Tottenham Hotspur
AC Ajaccio
AS Monaco
AJ Auxerre
Girondins de Bordeaux*
FC Nantes
FC Metz*
Lille OSC
OGC Nice
Marseille
PSG
RC Lens
Stade Rennais FC
Toulouse FC
RC Strasbourg*
FC Souchaux*
AS St. Etienne
DSC Arminia Bielefeld
Bayer Leverkusen
Borussia Dortmund
Borussia Monchengladbach
Hamburger SV
Hannover 96
Hertha BSC Berlin
FC Nurnberg
Schalke 04
VfB Stuttgart
VfL Wolfsburg
SV Werder Bremen
Roma
Chievo Verona
Fiorentina
Lazio
Lecce
Livorno*
Messina
Palermo
Parma
Reggina
Sampdoria
Udinese
Ajax
AZ Alkmaar
FC Twente
FC Utrecht
Feyenoord
Roda JC*
Alaves*
At. Osasuna
Athletic Club
Celta
Real Betis
Real Zaragoza
RCD Espanyol
Sevilla FC
Villareal
SL Benfica
Besiktas
Celtic
Dynamo Kiev
Club Brugge KV
FC Porto
Fenerbache
Galatasaray
Lokomotiv Moscow
Olympiakos CFP
Rangers
RSC Anderlecht
FC Shaktar Donetsk
Sporting Lisbon
Anyway, this is I think a place to start. If we take the asterisked teams out, the middle tier is still a big group with a lot of variation. Those teams in parentheses could be thrown into the middle group as well, but they are all just that much better than the rest, so I don't know where to draw the line there.
Suggestions for tweaks and further discussion encouraged.
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MM_RevDeBo
- Mario Mendoza
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:00 am
New Here
I am new here but I have and like this game. I would like to join a league if possible. Is there a way to create teams? , because I would like to create one of the MLS teams frm the states. I wish they were in this game. Please let me know I wantto play. I have it on PS2. I'm a tied 1 or 2 player. Only been playing for about a month
Re: New Here
It's a Xbox league.MM_RevDeBo wrote:I am new here but I have and like this game. I would like to join a league if possible. Is there a way to create teams? , because I would like to create one of the MLS teams frm the states. I wish they were in this game. Please let me know I wantto play. I have it on PS2. I'm a tied 1 or 2 player. Only been playing for about a month
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MM_RevDeBo
- Mario Mendoza
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:00 am
OK, so I looked at the lists again and a few thoughts occured to me. The Top Tier is made up of 15 teams, but it really is two tiers of quality I think, with the real cream of the crop being 8 teams:
So, long story short, I went about fine-tuning the lists a bit, and using Fiorentina as a barometer of the worst 'acceptably good' team, I came up with a large Second Tier that is made up of the best of the previous Middle Tier, and the not-as-good-as-the-best 8 in the Top Tier:
You'll notice that suddenly there are a ton of German teams, and a ton of 'other' teams as well.
So, I say the 3-star guys should get teams from that top group if they want. They can do a draft, maybe, or something along those lines. Or, they could be randomly assigned with one chance to re-roll, though that second roll could be a little tough to make work with so few teams to pick from.
The rest of us, I think, should be randomly assigned with one chance to re-roll, out of this larger, Second Tier. Maybe we can lop off a bottom layer of teams from this group just in case. In fact, I have asterisked those that are really on the cusp, using Middlesbrough as a guide.
What do you all think?
- Top Tier
Arsenal
Chelsea
Man U
AC Milan
Juventus
Inter
Barcelona
Real Madrid
So, long story short, I went about fine-tuning the lists a bit, and using Fiorentina as a barometer of the worst 'acceptably good' team, I came up with a large Second Tier that is made up of the best of the previous Middle Tier, and the not-as-good-as-the-best 8 in the Top Tier:
- Second Tier
(Olympique Lyonnais)
PSG
AS Monaco
*Olympique Marseille
*Toulouse FC
(Bayern Munich)
Bayer Leverkusen
Borussia Dortmund
Hertha BSC Berlin
SV Werder Bremen
*VfL Wolfsburg
VfB Stuttgart
*Schalke 04
*Hamburger SV
(PSV Eindhoven)
Ajax
*Feyenoord
(Atletico Madrid)
(Valencia)
(RC Deportivo)
*Real Betis
Villareal
*Celta
(Liverpool)
Aston Villa
Newcastle United
*Fulham
Machester City
*Middlesbrough
Roma
Fiorentina
*Lazio
*Palermo
SL Benfica
*Besiktas
*Dynamo Kiev
*Galatasaray
Fenerbache
*FC Porto
*Olympiakos CFP
*Celtic
*Rangers
You'll notice that suddenly there are a ton of German teams, and a ton of 'other' teams as well.
So, I say the 3-star guys should get teams from that top group if they want. They can do a draft, maybe, or something along those lines. Or, they could be randomly assigned with one chance to re-roll, though that second roll could be a little tough to make work with so few teams to pick from.
The rest of us, I think, should be randomly assigned with one chance to re-roll, out of this larger, Second Tier. Maybe we can lop off a bottom layer of teams from this group just in case. In fact, I have asterisked those that are really on the cusp, using Middlesbrough as a guide.
What do you all think?
Last edited by Zeppo on Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
OK how about this:
All entrants are assigned a team randomly, with one (two?) chances to re-roll.
3-star players are assigned from the pool of Top Tier teams and the Second Tier teams that are in parentheses.
4-star players are assigned from the pool of Second Tier teams, including the teams in parentheses, but excluding those teams with asterisks.
5 and 6-star players are asssigned from the pool of Second Tier teams, excluding those in parentheses, and including those with asterisks.
If anyone is attatched to any team in his category, speak up now and maybe it can be worked out.
I don't know how to do the random deal, outside of writing the names on slips of paper and putting them into a hat.
Any feedback on the grouping of teams is encouraged. There are some pretty tight shaves in there.
I think we need to sound off who is still into this league before we assign teams, and then get started with games right away, first half-season deadline two weeks after the team selection is completed (one re-roll, two?).
All entrants are assigned a team randomly, with one (two?) chances to re-roll.
3-star players are assigned from the pool of Top Tier teams and the Second Tier teams that are in parentheses.
4-star players are assigned from the pool of Second Tier teams, including the teams in parentheses, but excluding those teams with asterisks.
5 and 6-star players are asssigned from the pool of Second Tier teams, excluding those in parentheses, and including those with asterisks.
If anyone is attatched to any team in his category, speak up now and maybe it can be worked out.
I don't know how to do the random deal, outside of writing the names on slips of paper and putting them into a hat.
Any feedback on the grouping of teams is encouraged. There are some pretty tight shaves in there.
I think we need to sound off who is still into this league before we assign teams, and then get started with games right away, first half-season deadline two weeks after the team selection is completed (one re-roll, two?).
