NCAA Basketball March Madness Discussion

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:35 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote: Ouch...f*cking Bradley.

MVC gets no love. I get sick of the BCS arrogance from everywhere, especially the media. All these media experts talking about how middle of the pack ACC and Big 12 teams would easily beat the Valley, blah blah.

Seton Hall looked like chumps the other day against Wichita State. Kansas does not look like a team that would have run through the Valley, they got beat on a neutral court by the 5th place MVC team. Northern Iowa represented itself well vs Georgetown, but just couldnt hit a shot in the second half. SIU got run, but they were not an at-large team and were lucky to be there (good run and victory in the conference tournament), and probably robbed a spot from a more deserving Missouri State. Speaking of which, they easily handled Stanford last night in the NIT last night, and Creighton won as well.

The MVC should have had at least 5 teams in, Air Force should have been playing in the NIT, not MO State. What really irks me is that the Bears beat up on Wisc-Milwaukee in mid-Feb in the "Bracket Busters" tournament... and Wisc-Milwaukee gets in (due to autobid) and then takes out a Big12 team. LOL. And the #21 RPI team gets suck in the NIT, it 'aint right.

Perhaps next year the MVC will finally see 5 teams in the NCAA's, but not unless the BCS conferences have the balls to schedule with them during the regular season.

Just look at the BCS so far:

Michigan State, Kansas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Iowa all losing to "mid-majors".

Billy Packer picked the wrong year to go off on them, and it might take a while to remove his foot from his mouth. It just goes to show how wrong the polls are each week and how much they are based on brand names. What sucks is that when these teams do get to play in the NCAA tournament, they usually face long odds due to low seeding so making it past 2 rounds is always difficult.... they rarely get a high seed and cupcake teams in the first round or two like BCS conference winners who don't have to play stiff competition until the later rounds.

Oh well, at least they got some love on College Gamenight from Gottlieb and Lavin. Gottlieb talking about Bradley/Pitt, and says Bradley will give them all they want. Then says the Valley came to play. Said WSU has a good chance to beat Tennessee. Then brings up Creighton and MSU winning against big schools already in the NIT.

Then Lavin jumps in and says the valley should have got 6 in and then says what were they (selection committee) thinking??

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:30 pm

jondiehl wrote:I get sick of the BCS arrogance from everywhere, especially the media. All these media experts talking about how middle of the pack ACC and Big 12 teams would easily beat the Valley, blah blah.

Perhaps next year the MVC will finally see 5 teams in the NCAA's, but not unless the BCS conferences have the balls to schedule with them during the regular season.

Oh well, at least they got some love on College Gamenight from Gottlieb and Lavin.

You hit on one of the key problems with mid-majors trying to get the respect they deserve in cases like this year--the big conferences don't want to risk losing to UW-Milwaukee at home and then have UW-M fall apart in their conference play and miss the tournament. And they sure as hell don't want to travel to the mid-major's home most of the time.

I thought Gottlieb was an annoying twit early in the season, but I have to give him credit for being one of the few ESPN talking heads to speak his mind and becoming one of the more interesting parts of their coverage.

Here's to some more mid-major ass-kicking today hopefully...

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:03 pm

Perhaps the MVC needs to start scheduling and winning some non-conference games to boost their RPI. As Dave said, that's easier said than done because the big boys don't want to lose to them, but that is the only way they are going to get love. You don't get love from the national media when you play in that conference...you just don't. Until those teams start scheduling and winning non-conference games against the ACC, Big East, etc...it's just not going to happen. That's the beauty of the tourney...even the lesser teams can get hot and beat the big boys.

You're going to tell me that if teams like Northwestern State played Iowa in a best of 5 or 7 series that they'd win all of the time? I'd be willing to bet that Iowa would win most of the series. Again, that's the beauty of the tourney. A few shots fall for the underdog and boom...the favorite is toast. It's happened more often this year, which is probably attributed to the mid-majors getting a little more talent...but it doesn't mean they should get all of the jock love that the bigger and more talented conferences get.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:57 pm

They had Bradley's head coach for an interview on ESPN 1000 here in Chicago this week and they were talking about this issue. He said that the major teams won't schedule any of the MVC teams no matter what the offer is. They offer to play them at their home court and they still won't accept the offer. He said NCAA basically said they should schedule games against the top-tier mid-major teams to gain some notoriety.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:01 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Until those teams start scheduling and winning non-conference games against the ACC, Big East, etc...it's just not going to happen.

Yeah, it's a catch-22. The MVC wants to schedule with the BCS conferences, but none of them want to play and take the perceived "risk" (although give Arkansas credit as they did play us at their place back in December, which was a nice boost to their RPI and strength of schedule since the SEC had only 3 teams finish with a higher RPI than the Bears).

I went to MO State in the early 90's (back when it was SW MO State (SMS) and Spoonhour coached them) and they've been trying to get Mizzou on the schedule for ages. I guess with the MVC fielding 4 teams this season and having 6 teams finish in the top 50 RPI, that might help their cause to get some bigger schools to schedule with them for next year since they don't have a big "risk" (assuming the Valley continues to have high RPI ratings)

Gottlieb is one of the few ESPN talking head's that's not just a fair-weather Valley fan. Clark Kellogg, Seth Davis, and even Dick Vitale have shown them alot of love earlier in the year and in season's past before the others jumped on the bandwagon late this season when the talk of 4-6 teams started to crop up.

So far so good with Wichita State, up 5pts at the half on #2 Tennessee. If they can keep that going and Bradley can get by Pittsburgh, the Valley might have it's best tournament run since Larry Bird took ISU to the finals.

blueduke · Post by **blueduke** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:41 pm

I get sick of the BCS arrogance from everywhere, especially the media. All these media experts talking about how middle of the pack ACC and Big 12 teams would easily beat the Valley, blah blah.

In a one and done tourney anything can happen but no way Bradley goes through a season in the ACC, Big East, SEC, or Big Ten and walks away with a .500 record imo. That being said some are correct in saying teams in the MVC are having a hard time scheduling games against big time opponents. It's really simple though........the big timers have nothing to gain by doing so other than taking a hit on their own RPI and that's even if they win

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:24 pm

My girlfriends dad is just giddy right now...a Shocker alum.

billharris44 · Post by **billharris44** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:04 pm

[quote="blueduke
In a one and done tourney anything can happen but no way Bradley goes through a season in the ACC, Big East, SEC, or Big Ten and walks away with a .500 record imo. That being said some are correct in saying teams in the MVC are having a hard time scheduling games against big time opponents. It's really simple though........the big timers have nothing to gain by doing so other than taking a hit on their own RPI and that's even if they win[/quote]

I've watched quite a bit of the Big 12 this year (20-30 games), watched the entire Bradley-Kansas game last night, and if Bradley plays like that normally, they would have finished third or fourth in the Big 12 this year. In my opinion, anyway.

The thing that seems different about the mid-majors this year is that they're not scuffling to hang on during games. Wichita St. played like the favorite today. Bradley played like that last night. I can never remember the talent gap between the power conferences and the mid-majors being so small.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:25 pm

Huge shot by LSU...wow.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:07 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Huge shot by LSU...wow.

Yep, exactly. Congrats to LSU. When I consider that A&M was 7-21 and 0-16 in the Big 12 season before last to a 30 foot shot standing between them and the Sweet Sixteen, I am ECSTATIC. Billy Gillespie and the A&M basketball team are my new heroes! They play the game and compete the way I used to compete and that is balls to the wall til the game is over. Just bought season tickets to next year's A&M basketball home schedule.....

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:25 pm

blueduke wrote:It's really simple though........the big timers have nothing to gain by doing so other than taking a hit on their own RPI and that's even if they win

That may be true about other "mid-majors" that only get their conference champ in the dance, but the MVC had six teams (out of 10 total) in the top 45 RPI... that's second to only the uber-huge BIG ass East with eight teams that high (out of 16 total teams though).

That was my point with Arkansas scheduling with MO State this year... they finished #21 in the RPI, so that win was huge for Arkansas and their final RPI rank since they played only a handful of other teams with a better RPI than that.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:28 pm

pk500 wrote:Indiana could go a ways in that regional after that victory, as I think that half of the Oakland bracket is very soft. Indiana, Gonzaga, Alabama and UCLA don't exactly comprise Murderers' Row.

As much as Syracuse depended on G-Mac, Gonzaga is absolutely f*cked if Morrison has a bad game. But will he? Batista is a nice player inside for Gonzaga, too.

Take care,
PK

Apparently PK is the bastard love child of Jay Bilas and Billy Packer.

GONZAGA
PLAYER FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A PF PTS

J Batista 10/18 0/1 0/0 2 20
S Mallon 4/7 0/1 7/8 1 15

A Morrison 5/16 0/4 4/7 2 14

D Raivio 2/7 1/4 8/10 1 13
E Knight 4/5 0/0 3/4 2 11
J Pargo 2/5 1/1 5/6 0 10

D Pendergraft 1/1 0/0 5/6 4 7
J Heytvelt 0/1 0/0 0/0 0 0
P Altidor-Cespedes 0/1 0/1 0/0 0 0
TEAM TOTALS 28/61 2/12 32/41 12 90

Just wanted to make sure PK's quote was mentioned. 5 players outside of Morrison in double figures.

Zags in 2006! Back to BDCave.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:27 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
PadresFan104 wrote:Leebo, I'm Pitt alumn... no chance to see them on TV out here in San Diego, so I feel your pain... What do we know about Bradley???
I'm actually a Penn State alumn, but I could never abandon the team I grew up loving so I'm one of those strange fans from Western PA that likes both. It's actually good for me that the rivalry is almost dead so I can root for both.

All I know about Bradley is that they were good enough to beat Kansas

And good enough to beat Pitt

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:30 pm

fsquid wrote:Bill Self is a big game coach

He's taken KU and Illinois each to the elite 8. He's guided Tulsa at least to the sweet 16, if not the elite 8. Has he been to the Final Four or won the championship? Nope, but Roy Williams didn't win the championship until he was 54 years old!

So, c'mon. Give me a break. There are several big name coahces who haven't won a championship.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:31 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:How many KU fans are hanging from their rafters right now? Ouch...f*cking Bradley.

There are several I imagine, but I also realize we're a very young team still. Every one of our starters will be back and we're bringing in a stud guard from Chicago in Sherron Collins. We're going to be just fine.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:07 pm

As a BU grad its great to see two valley teams in the sweet 16. And lets face it when you are a #7 seed (WSU) and a #13 (BU) you are gonna have to beat the big boys to get there.

Bradley just finished handling Pitt! Great for the Valley and Bradley University which has a fairly storied bball history dating back to the 50's and 60's. They are second only to St. John's in the number of NIT appearances, with 20. They won the NIT in 57, 60, & 64, back when the NIT was THE tourney, and again in 82. The Braves won the NCAA tourney in 50 and 54.

Joe Allen, Roger Phegley, Chet Walker, Lavern Tart, Bobbie Joe Mason, Mitchell Anderson, Jim Les and Hersey Hawkins are just a few of the names that have led the Braves over the years.

Go BU!

Jeff

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:47 pm

I just thought BU was Boston University...Back to your regularly scheduled program.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:04 pm

Looks like my Tigers will make the Sweet 16. They haven't been there for a decade. Feels good.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:25 pm

If anyone has Wichita St. and George Mason matching up in the Sweet 16 in their brackets...they are a god.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:51 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:If anyone has Wichita St. and George Mason matching up in the Sweet 16 in their brackets...they are a god.

I have Wichita State in my elite eight knocking off UNC to get there.

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:26 pm

The Huskies will be playing in the Elite 8. Either the Connecticut Huskies or the Washington Huskies, since they face off in the Sweet 16.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:19 pm

Zlax45 wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:If anyone has Wichita St. and George Mason matching up in the Sweet 16 in their brackets...they are a god.
I have Wichita State in my elite eight knocking off UNC to get there.

That's not what I said.

pigpen81 · Post by **pigpen81** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:26 pm

Egads, is the Big 10 overated or what? Their all out.

I love the talking heads...Packer especially, having to eat major crow over their big school darlings. Kudos to the tourney committee. Great job this year. Only thing wrong was placing the Little 10 seeds as high as you did.

Post by **Jared** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:28 pm

Zlax didn't say that he was a god either.

I had Wichita State in the Sweet 16 and G Mason getting to the second round.....but didn't have the guts to put them in the sweet 16.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:31 pm

Jared wrote:Zlax didn't say that he was a god either.

Yeah, but a lot of people had Wichita St...including me. It's those of you who had BOTH of them that would actually be a damn good bracket and worth mentioning. We could go on and on about how one person picked a long shot, thus making this thread rather long...