OT: Teacher suspended for voicing opinion

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:03 pm

check this out:

http://us.video.aol.com/video.index.adp ... id=1472662

I am not turning this into a pro/con Bush debate. This is a story about FREE SPEECH and a teacher who raised some similiarities between Bush and Hitler and was suspended for it. This is a free speech issue. The teacher clearly said that it was just what he thought and that he was encouraging his students to think for themselves. I am not saying I agree with his analogy. I am just saying this teacher is entitled to his opinion. If people can go around saying Bush is doing "God's work" and comparing him to Jesus, then people can go the other extreme and compare Bush to Hitler. We need free discussion in our classrooms and that includes bothe ends of the spectrum. We also need to teach kids to always question authority and not just do things because. The fact that this teacher was suspended for this is just wrong.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:13 pm

you listen to that whole tape?? The teacher went off on a 20 minute tirade.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:13 pm

I'm not going to watch the video because I'm at work, but I was wondering....how bad do you have to be to be in a "bad guy" category all by yourself. Even if you believe Bush is evil, comparing Bush to Hitler to me is like comparing Babe Ruth to Brady Anderson. It's insulting to Hitler and his legacy. Hitler should have his own wing in the bad guy hall of fame. The teacher should be suspended for lack of an original thought.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:14 pm

I didn't read the article, but I don't think any teacher should be allowed to teach our kids THEIR opinions. My son is in high school and his World History teacher is a flaming liberal and is constantly forcing her opinions on his class. She blames Bush for everything, including how unhappy she is with her salary. Her job is to TEACH, not invoke her opinions on today's youth. At this point, I am very close to filing an official complaint with our school board, but I think I'm going to have a little chat with her first.

So without clicking the link, I think if a teacher is spouting opinions when they should be teaching, then she either needs to be made to stop or removed.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:24 pm

fsquid wrote:you listen to that whole tape?? The teacher went off on a 20 minute tirade.

Yes I did. I heard it on the radio yesterday.Everyone should here the entire thing an know the guy is teaching, I believe, a geography class before they give an opinion.

Free speech is one thing...but this guy is teaching a class on someone elses dime.

The guy should not be suspended he should be deported. to a planet that allows this sort of slime to slither on its surface.

He is a disgrace not only to teaching but to humanity.

NoJoke · Post by **NoJoke** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:28 pm

Was it a public school or a private school?

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:32 pm

JackB1 wrote: If people can go around saying Bush is doing "God's work" and comparing him to Jesus, then people can go the other extreme and compare Bush to Hitler. .

What f***in people???

JD is right you have a serious issuse...Every damn time anything happens its YOU that brings up religion.
[/b]

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:32 pm

NoJoke wrote:Was it a public school or a private school?

trust Me...Listen to the entire tape and it wont matter...You will understand.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:39 pm

Badgun wrote:I didn't read the article, but I don't think any teacher should be allowed to teach our kids THEIR opinions. My son is in high school and his World History teacher is a flaming liberal and is constantly forcing her opinions on his class. She blames Bush for everything, including how unhappy she is with her salary. Her job is to TEACH, not invoke her opinions on today's youth. At this point, I am very close to filing an official complaint with our school board, but I think I'm going to have a little chat with her first.

So without clicking the link, I think if a teacher is spouting opinions when they should be teaching, then she either needs to be made to stop or removed.

Agreed. And I'm the biggest proponent of free speech there is. It's one thing for a teacher to encourage students to air their opinions and viewpoints; it crosses an entirely different line when that teacher rams their personal beliefs down a student's throat, especially in a public school.

Take care,
PK

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:47 pm

Badgun wrote:I didn't read the article, but I don't think any teacher should be allowed to teach our kids THEIR opinions. My son is in high school and his World History teacher is a flaming liberal and is constantly forcing her opinions on his class. She blames Bush for everything, including how unhappy she is with her salary. Her job is to TEACH, not invoke her opinions on today's youth. At this point, I am very close to filing an official complaint with our school board, but I think I'm going to have a little chat with her first.

So without clicking the link, I think if a teacher is spouting opinions when they should be teaching, then she either needs to be made to stop or removed.

Could not agree more.

Dealing with the same thing here with both my kids in High School. Teachers are there to teach kids the SUBJECT that the student is enrolled in. I don't even care if it is Political Science, teachers should not be forcing their opinions on others. If a student or one of my kids ASKS THEM for their opinion, that is one thing. But if it is forced upon them as a "captive audience", then like you, Badgun, I have a SERIOUS problem with that.

Haven't listened to the audio file and I likely won't. I have read enough here from you guys to form and opinion about this particular episode and the fact that the teacher is comparing Bush to Hitler is all I need to know....

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:48 pm

Why is there some unwritten law that says that you aren't allowed to bring up religion? Why is that so taboo? You are missing the point. The point isn't about religion, it's about a teacher that got suspended for expressing his opinion and asking his students to "think". I never said thats what he said was right or wrong, all I said was he is entitled to his opinion and to voice it, as long as he makes it clear to his students that it is his opinion. The school even said that they encourage teachers to include their opinions with thier teachings.

I didn't listen to the whole tape....just what was on that link.
I didn't know the teacher went on a "tirade" and I don't really know all of what was said and how it was said. I just find it interesting that they suspending him and the kids all are backing the teacher, saying he did nothing wrong. All I heard was him saying that Bush had some similiarities to Hitler in the way that he spoke. Is that so horrible?
I wonder if the teacher said that Bush was the greatest President ever and that everything he does is correct, would he have gotten int the same trouble?

The point here is, do you think the suspension was justified. Yes or no and why?

XXXIV wrote:
JackB1 wrote: If people can go around saying Bush is doing "God's work" and comparing him to Jesus, then people can go the other extreme and compare Bush to Hitler. .
What f***in people???

JD is right you have a serious issuse...Every damn time anything happens its YOU that brings up religion.
[/b]

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:52 pm

I agree. If all the teacher does the whole day is force his or her opinions down the students throats, that is extremely wrong. They should teach mostly facts, but WHEN APPLICABLE should be allowed to say..."people have different opinions on this subject....I feel this way and what do you think?" Nothing wrong with getting kids to make up thier own minds about things. Badgun, it sounds like this history teacher is way out of line.

Badgun wrote:I didn't read the article, but I don't think any teacher should be allowed to teach our kids THEIR opinions. My son is in high school and his World History teacher is a flaming liberal and is constantly forcing her opinions on his class. She blames Bush for everything, including how unhappy she is with her salary. Her job is to TEACH, not invoke her opinions on today's youth. At this point, I am very close to filing an official complaint with our school board, but I think I'm going to have a little chat with her first.

So without clicking the link, I think if a teacher is spouting opinions when they should be teaching, then she either needs to be made to stop or removed.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:58 pm

JackB1 wrote:The point here is, do you think the suspension was justified. Yes or no and why?

That was in my first post.

No only does he rant he lies...

"So these kids are going to have notes on why George Bush is related to Hitler and why the state of Israel was founded on violence and terrorism," Allen told the KHOW talk-radio audience on March 1. "These kids are going to have notes on this and accept that as fact."

ABC News said Bennish claimed on the tape to quote part of Bush's State of the Union address: "It is our duty as Americans to use the military to go out in the world and make the world like us." Bennish continues: "Sounds a lot like what Adolph Hilter used to say."

However, the quote was not found in a search of the text of Bush’s speech.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=16582

mixdj1 · Post by **mixdj1** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:02 pm

You can listen to the whole recording at this site.

It's in the "additional resources" section

blueduke · Post by **blueduke** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:04 pm

That "teacher" wasn't teaching. He was indoctrinating

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:10 pm

XXXIV wrote:
No only does he rant he lies...

"So these kids are going to have notes on why George Bush is related to Hitler and why the state of Israel was founded on violence and terrorism," Allen told the KHOW talk-radio audience on March 1. "These kids are going to have notes on this and accept that as fact."

ABC News said Bennish claimed on the tape to quote part of Bush's State of the Union address: "It is our duty as Americans to use the military to go out in the world and make the world like us." Bennish continues: "Sounds a lot like what Adolph Hilter used to say."

However, the quote was not found in a search of the text of Bush’s speech.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=16582

What a shock...someone taking a quote completely out of context and turning into something totally different. This is not "asking the kids to think for themselves", it is as you said an out and out LIE. People are increasingly getting away with more and more of this kind of behavior. It is WRONG and it needs to be STOPPED. Too bad that there are not enough people screaming about this. Damn, this kind of BS is pissing me off more every day....

Airdog · Post by **Airdog** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:42 pm

EDIT: Read my edit at the end of my post.

Just FYI: It is not against school policy for a teacher to voice his/her opinion regarding topics, so long as there is time given for opposing views to express their opinion. Now they have to decide whether or not his views were radical enough to be removed and if he didn't let students say what they wanted to say.

And I think saying that the guy is slime and that he should be deported is going a little overboard.

I'm not sure about you guys, but when I was in tenth grade I didn't take everything that the teacher said as absolute gold and bank on it completely so I'm not convinced that by doing this the kids would write it down as notes and be completely convinced by it as being factual.

I would be interested in knowing what kind of context this topic was brought up as well. I'm guessing that it has to do with demagogues, but who am I to speculate.

EDIT: Yeah, this guy definitely went overboard - I couldn't get the audio link to work earlier.

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:00 pm

So what I want to know is, since this guy makes a point of dissing democracy as a decent form of government, what his other choices are? He seems to b*tch a whole lot but not offer any constructive ideas on how to fix it. I guess he'll leave that up to his students when he's an old fart living in a retirement village in Florida.

Democracy is run by people. People are not perfect, and some are just no good. Find me a bunch of perfect people, and I'll show you the perfect society.

So this guy is a geography teacher. And to think I always wondered why our kids can't pick Korea off of a map...

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:03 pm

An a thought just occured to me. What if he said all this in Saddam's Iraq about the leadership there?

peabody · Post by **peabody** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:08 pm

XXXIV wrote:
Yes I did. I heard it on the radio yesterday.Everyone should here the entire thing an know the guy is teaching, I believe, a geography class before they give an opinion.

Free speech is one thing...but this guy is teaching a class on someone elses dime.

Actually, I thought it was weird too that he was saying all this during a grography class. But, after poking around too see what a high school world geography class course entails, it looks like it includes discussing people, places, and environments at a local, national, and international level. So his topic of discussion is not wihout basis.

Part of the problem is he injected Hitler into the conversation. Comparing Hitler to almost any other human in a public setting is a formula for trouble.

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:13 pm

Strange, having worked in intelligence for my Navy career, not once did I want to "kill people just for the sake of killing people". I must have missed that part of the textbook.

This tape gets stranger the more I listen. Maybe he backed over his dog on the way to work so he's in a crappy mood...

pigpen81 · Post by **pigpen81** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:16 pm

Badgun wrote:I didn't read the article, but I don't think any teacher should be allowed to teach our kids THEIR opinions. My son is in high school and his World History teacher is a flaming liberal and is constantly forcing her opinions on his class. She blames Bush for everything, including how unhappy she is with her salary. Her job is to TEACH, not invoke her opinions on today's youth. At this point, I am very close to filing an official complaint with our school board, but I think I'm going to have a little chat with her first.

So without clicking the link, I think if a teacher is spouting opinions when they should be teaching, then she either needs to be made to stop or removed.

Badgun, as a teacher I com[pletely agree. I have never and will never voice my opinions about any political debates. A good techer can moderate a healthy debate in a classroom without voicing his/her opinions. Any teacher that does that is not doing their job correct IMO.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:30 pm

Leebo33 wrote:I'm not going to watch the video because I'm at work, but I was wondering....how bad do you have to be to be in a "bad guy" category all by yourself. Even if you believe Bush is evil, comparing Bush to Hitler to me is like comparing Babe Ruth to Brady Anderson. It's insulting to Hitler and his legacy. Hitler should have his own wing in the bad guy hall of fame. The teacher should be suspended for lack of an original thought.

No kidding. Free speech doesn't mean freedom to be an ignorant asshat. I can't stand the President, and I make jokes about him all the time, but comparing Bush to Hitler is just idiotic. He's clearly more like Mussolini

In all seriousness, the whole "Nazi" thing has to go. Unless you are expanding your borders under an aegis of genocide, you're not even in the same ballpark.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:36 pm

Airdog wrote:
And I think saying that the guy is slime and that he should be deported is going a little overboard.

.

My favorite part of the tape is where he tries to justifies the World Trade Center attacks saying there was a CIA office there...Making it a military target...Guys insane...

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:55 pm

I usually avoid political threads here, but this is insane. How anyone could defend what this guy said after actually listening to the full tape is beyond me. What the tape reveals is a 20-minute political rant full of half-truths, wild accusations, and irresponsible analogies. There is zero effort by the teacher for any type of balance about discussing different approaches to the extremely broad issues he is talking about, nor is there a shred of discussion taking place in the classroom. Being someone who was in college just a few years ago, I can honestly say that if one of my professors lead a 'discussion' in this manner with such clearly biased, all over the map comments, myself and most of my colleagues would have gotten up and walked out. That was not teaching, it was preaching of his own rather narrow and extreme political views.

I am a registered democrat, and have voted against Bush twice, but this is getting ridiculous. You are entitled to express your opinions, but there is a proper time and place, and a captive high school audience under the impression they are being 'taught' is not the place for it. What bothers me is this is being reported as if he is being suspended for criticizing Bush, when I think it is pretty clear the suspension came in response to the means of delivery, not the substance of the comments.

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