TOCA 3 Impressions Thread

[JackB1]

at first glance, this game was a bit underwhelming. I had to go check the box to make sure it was TOCA3 and that I didnt put in TOCA 2 by accident. anyone else have that "been there done that" feeling? I'm sure racing you guys (or attempting to) on XBL will be fun, I wish they could have made the game a little more "different" feeling/looking than the last.
It seems like TOCA 2.5 with a few more car classes thrown in. So the question is, should the game be judged on it's own merits or by how far it has progressed ovr it's last issue? remember, this is only after a few hours with the game....I really need some serious time with this before I can draw any conclusions.

[pk500]

Some early impressions, after five straight hours of offline and online play last night.

WOW, this game is nirvana. Plain and simple. It took the tried-and-true formula of TOCA 2 and refined it with more cars, more tracks, deeper career and World Tour modes, Pro-Sim physics and racing AI and more online options.

Pure bliss. And to think I considered not repairing my Xbox. I'M A FOOL!

Specific impressions. I REALLY like most of the new classes, especially the Formula Palmer Audis and the Formula J-1000 cars. Yeah, I moaned about the J-1000's during our online races, but Zeppo is right: What's not to like about them? They're fast, nimble little cars with enough downforce to keep you out of trouble but still have enough power to turn them around if you're sloppy. Basically, they're Formula Fords with downforce.

The sprint cars are fun -- with one catch. There are only two tracks, and the only one worth a sh*t is the short track. The long track is wide-open all the way around, with no sliding through the corners. You're never sawing the wheel. But on the short track, it's great short-track action, sawing the wheel, sliding, managing the power with dabs of brake and gas.

No class has surprised me more than the karts. I thought they would be basic, point-and-shoot, glued-to-the-track vehicles. Wrong. They are massive fun, as you can slide through corners, get really screwed up if you slam curbs, etc. The karts are a fantastic surprise.

I think anyone who has even a decent amount of competence with this game owes it to themselves to use the Pro-Sim settings for everything. It is the most enjoyable, challenging way to play the game, in my opinion.

The Pro-Sim physics and handling models are better than the hardest level in TOCA 2. More challenging. Not quite as precise as Forza, but the hallmark of the TOCA series always has been a near-perfect balance of accessibility and realism, and that doesn't change in TOCA 3.

I can't wait to unlock more classes. This is going to be the game that keeps giving for a long, LONG time.

See you cats online tonight! More impressions to come.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

at first glance, this game was a bit underwhelming. I had to go check the box to make sure it was TOCA3 and that I didnt put in TOCA 2 by accident. anyone else have that "been there done that" feeling? I'm sure racing you guys (or attempting to) on XBL will be fun, I wish they could have made the game a little more "different" feeling/looking than the last.
It seems like TOCA 2.5 with a few more car classes thrown in. So the question is, should the game be judged on it's own merits or by how far it has progressed ovr it's last issue? remember, this is only after a few hours with the game....I really need some serious time with this before I can draw any conclusions.

Jack:

TOCA 3 definitely is an evolutionary game, building upon the great foundation of TOCA 2. It takes all of the good things of TOCA 2, strips out some of the bad, and adds even more good things.

After a few moments of thought (rare, I know!), I think an analogy can be made between the TOCA and Grand Theft Auto series. Hear me out.

GTA 1, GTA 2 and GTA London on the PSX were fun, pretty basic, top-down games on the PSX, from what I remember. Then GTA III dropped like a bomb and changed everything, revolutionizing the genre with its huge 3D worlds, deep, deep gameplay and free-roaming ability.

The early TOCA games -- TOCA Touring Car Championship, Touring Car Challenge, Jarrett & Labonte Stock Car Racing and Pro Race Driver -- were very, very solid racing games with excellent AI. But TOCA 2 changed everything with its deeper career mode, many more cars and tracks and a seemingly perfect mix of realism and accessibility.

So just as GTA Vice City and GTA San Andreas built on the brilliance of GTA III, simply making a good thing even better, I think TOCA 3 does the same thing. It builds upon the excellent foundation of TOCA 2.

When a game series is as good as GTA, TOCA and Winning Eleven, I'm not sure we can expect revolutionary steps with each new incarnation. The gameplay is honed pretty well, so well-aimed tweaks and additional modes, tracks and cars are what I expect from those series.

Is Winning Eleven 9 that much of a radical change over WE 8, other than the addition of online play? I don't think so. It takes all of the good stuff of WE 8, adds some very deft gameplay tweaks, and makes an excellent package even better. I think TOCA 3 does the same thing. For example, I really like how you can select your branch of racing when you start the Pro Career mode. That's a nice touch. So are the Pro-Sim physics.

To make a racing analogy, Renault had to make a hell of a lot less revolutionary changes to its 2006 F1 car after winning the World Championship last year than say, Ferrari, had to its 2006 challenger since it had such a disastrous season last year.

Am I making any sense?

Take care,
PK

[packmanuk04]

Do people use a wheel or gamepad for this game ? I always find racing games a bit unrealistic with a gamepad. Are there any good wheels for the xbox ?

[Theo]

I am using a gamepad, it works very well. what camera view are you using? I tend to like the hood cam.

[Zeppo]

I am using a gamepad, it works very well. what camera view are you using? I tend to like the hood cam.

I prefer the cockpit cam, except for those open-cockpit single-seaters where I use the next camera, what is usually the hood cam. It seems to me that the camera angles are in reverse order on those cars, at least the cockpit and the hood view are reversed. In most cars, the hood view is very high, like almost on top of the roof rather than on the hood in front of the windshield, and the cockpit view is lower, closer to the road. In the open cockpit cars, or at least the single-seaters, it seems the hood view is lower, closer to the road than the cockpit view. I actually get more of a sense I am in the car in the hood view for the single-seat, open cockpit cars.

What I really like about the cockpit view in the closed cockpit cars is that while very simple and not very detailed, it gives you a great sense of the car around you while not being too distracting or obscuring of the view. The hood views are always centered too, which I don't like. I prefer to be off to the proper side of the car. There is one Global GT car, though, where I have real trouble in the cockpit view, so I've use the hood cam sometimes in that car.

[Theo]

As good as this game is, it's a pity that Codemasters didn't incorporate a true cockpit view, like PGR3 and GT Legends. The cockpit view in GT Legends is the best I have ever seen in a racing game.

[tjung0831]

at first glance, this game was a bit underwhelming. I had to go check the box to make sure it was TOCA3 and that I didnt put in TOCA 2 by accident. anyone else have that "been there done that" feeling? I'm sure racing you guys (or attempting to) on XBL will be fun, I wish they could have made the game a little more "different" feeling/looking than the last.
It seems like TOCA 2.5 with a few more car classes thrown in. So the question is, should the game be judged on it's own merits or by how far it has progressed ovr it's last issue? remember, this is only after a few hours with the game....I really need some serious time with this before I can draw any conclusions.

Not for me...it's a significant upgrade or improvement over Toca2. It's 100% better in almost every aspect.

[packmanuk04]

So what about wheels ? Do people use them and if so which is best ?

[pk500]

My constant setup: Controller S, cockpit view.

Sorry, Packman! I know TCrouch (Terry) has nearly every wheel made in Western civilization. Hopefully he can help you.

Take care,
PK

[JRod]

PK:

Ya you HAVE to use to PRO-SIM settings. This is the first racing game I've played since NASCAR 06, well if you don't count Need for Speed, and this by far the easiet game to get a grip on. Using your WE comparision, it's easy to drive the cars and stay on the track but it's hard to master the turns and get the most speed out of them. It's very newbie friendly.

Currenly I'm on the Tier 6 of the World Championships and it's getting more difficult. The 1930's Vintage Grand Prix are fast and uncontrollable. They need a little bit of downforce.

One of my complaints so far is that you can race any car on any track. Maybe that option will open up.

[Theo]

JRod, by racing in the Pro Career, you unlock bonus Championships which will eventually let you race any car on any track. I am racing in the Pro Career exclusively now. I prefer it to the World Tour for several reasons. One, you can unlock bonus championships, you can set the amount of laps you race, and you can adjust the difficulty.

[JRod]

JRod, by racing in the Pro Career, you unlock bonus Championships which will eventually let you race any car on any track. I am racing in the Pro Career exclusively now. I prefer it to the World Tour for several reasons. One, you can unlock bonus championships, you can set the amount of laps you race, and you can adjust the difficulty.

I meant to say that I don't think you can set-up custom seasons where you can race the Formula Fords and have a Monster Truck race the next one up. I'm just trying to unlock as much crap as I can with the world cup mode.

[JRod]

Why can't you save during the Pro Career. That's inexcusable.

[GB_Simo]

JRod,

Zep made a discovery regarding Pro Career saving here:

http://www.digitalsportspage.com/module ... 9&start=25

Haven't tried this myself, and it seems a bit of a daft way of doing things, but apparently it works.

[Zeppo]

So, now I'm thinking Pro-Sim settings do function in World Tour mode. I noticed it with the Palmer Jaguars. I was having all kinds of difficulty with them last night, but today I ran out ahead of the field in the first few turns. Somehow my settings keep defaulting to Pro-Sim being off when I reboot the game.

I am very curious about these online settings, too. I will have to experiment sometime soon, turning Pro-Sim handling on and off in my driving settings (in select car) to see what difference there is, and then changing those settings in the host area too. I have a feeling the host settings overrule, but it begs the question why those things show up in the 'select car' area at all.

Looking forward to more online sessions. Maybe an MLR tomorrow night? I'm considering what class, thinking about FFs for old-times' sake, maybe GT Lights.

[wpw721]

How many people are online on the XBox? I am still waiting for mine to ship.

[TCrouch]

So what about wheels ? Do people use them and if so which is best ?

I own every one that's out practically. To keep it short:

The MadCatz universal isn't so bad. You can adjust deadzone and sensitivity, and the new one has a built-in mic port for XBL. Good, easily-found wheel that doesn't completely suck (but it's not great, either).

I have the Fanatec Speedster 3 that came out with Forza, and it's better as far as customizability, but the overall feel is very sketchy. The wheel itself feels like the shaft is a little loose, I don't know. It's a bit better than the MadCats performance-wise, but I haven't messed with it a ton. As soon as I find a copy of TOCA anywhere near me I'll run it through its paces. It's also incredibly hard to find, I had to order it from some niche online retailer.

For a wheel that you can probably walk in and grab, it's the MadCatz 2 (red grip is the one I have. I also had the older one but that had random disconnect problems, so only get the red one). The one thing you give up when using a wheel, though, is the right stick. So for games where you use it to look around and whatnot, you're screwed. That's why I still use a gamepad primarily with all of the XBox racing games. No wheel yet has just been so incredibly badass that it made my gamepad obsolete.

[lexbur]

I'm curious, you guys doing the World Tour mode, are you doing it at Normal or Hard difficulty? (I'm assuming everyone is racing with gravel traps, handling and damage checked, and remember you have to keep checking them on every time turn your game on.)

I started out doing it on Hard, but once I got to Tier 13 I got stuck and couldn't win anymore.

Since you can't seem to change the difficulty of your World Tour mode once you start it, I had to start another profile with the World Tour mode set on Normal difficulty and it seemed way too easy. I got bored after about 5 or 6 tiers.

So I went back to Hard, struggled with some of the races on Tier 13 again and finally passed. I enjoy the challenge of racing on Hard, but I don't want to spend hours on each Tier, especially when I'm anxious to unlock everything.

I'm assuming the races will get harder the more tiers you complete. I'm just not sure which profile I should keep working on, the Normal one or Hard one.

Sincerely,
Trudging Through the Tiers

PS- The game's a blast! Anyone else unlock those 60's F1 cars? WOW!!! Those are fun to drive, challenging as heck, but fun!

[pk500]

Hard and Pro-Sim for me. I don't mind getting my ass kicked at that level because it makes eventual success that much more gratifying!

Take care,
PK

[JackB1]

sorry if this was answered before, but when doing World Tour mode, I only see a choice for difficulty between normal and hard. Is there a way to use the "pro-Sim" settings while playing World Tour mode?

[lexbur]

sorry if this was answered before, but when doing World Tour mode, I only see a choice for difficulty between normal and hard. Is there a way to use the "pro-Sim" settings while playing World Tour mode?

Yes, you have to set it up in your driver profile. I tried it both ways and it definitely works in the World Tour mode. It was especially noticeable in the time it takes to get out of the gravel traps.

But it seems like you have to check those settings in your driver profile every time you turn your game on, because it goes back to the default.

[ScoopBrady]

Well, after visiting 5 different stores I was finally able to score a copy tonight. I just popped it in and messed with the Sprint Cars. They were tough to keep straight (kept wanting to veer to the left) but I ended up winning the race. I didn't really have a chance to play any after that because my wife was giving my daughter a bath and I have to wait for them to go to bed now. I can't wait to get some races in online with you guys.

[Gangrel]

Grrrr, i can't find it anywhere here in Ottawa.

Anyone find it in Canuckland anywhere?

[Zlax45]

How is the rally racing in it?