TOCA 3 Impressions Thread

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:39 pm

Hey DB why I'm a creating another thread when there's two other TOCA threads? Because I want to.

I am a racing newbie. You DSP'ers know that. I didn't partake in one TOCA 2 racenights and probably would get lapped by 3 or 4 by PK or Terry if I did hope on.

Damn I put this game in expecting to get bored with it very quickly like I do with more racing games. Usually that comes becuase the game controls and mechanics are so damn hard that newbies stuggle to keep the cars on the track.

I'm going to say this knowing that it's still early. The controls are WE-like. They are almost natural in a way, where you aren't fighting the game but fighting the reality of the sport. You WE nuts know what I'm talking about. The controls are intiative and Codies have done a great job letting you feel the car and track. Early in the career mode you really understand the difference in cars.

Second thing I like which is damn near impossible for games to get right is the driver AI. In the early stages the AI is stupid but there's promise. However it's the type of stupid that doesn't ruin the game. I couldn't play NASCAR 2006 because the AI always like to run right through me never really acknowledging that I'm on the track. For some reason car awareness is there by the AI. On top of that they have done a great job allowing the human novice not get run off the road even if you are running a great line.

I wish in the career mode they let you practice the tracks. Yes you can restart qualifying and the race but it would have been nice to offer that. And for newbies to the game, they should have offered some sort of driving guide for the tracks. Or maybe have the AI coach tell you about the cornors and how to have a really fast line on each tracks.

Overall I'm surprised. Usually I feel frustrated with racing games because its too hard to become good at them. TOCA 3 might not get sold on EBay in week or two. That's pretty good coming from an anti-racing gamer.

I can't WAIT to race on the old Gran Prix cars.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:44 pm

Holy s***! An impressions thread with actual impressions in the first post? Say it ain't so. I'll have to go look out the window to see if there are any pigs flying.

Thanks for the impressions JRod. I don't think I'm going to pick this one up with WE9, AFL, FN3 now and GR:AW and Morrowind:Oblivion coming soon. I'm anticipating a flash of play out of this one for the first week or so then just a racing night per week afterwards with people jumping back to heavy WE playing. I could be wrong.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:08 am

Yeah f*ck you very much.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:47 am

Being without XBL this weekend is like a punishment, so I've only been working my way through the World Tour and Pro Career modes.

The sprint cars are a disappointment for me so far. Maybe on Live they'll really start to shine, but they just don't feel like winged sprint cars to me, instead feeling like a cross between a Silver Crown car and a modified or something. Just way too much sluggishness.

Some of the other off road stuff (dune buggies, monster trucks) are pretty fun though.

So far, everything else has pretty much been as expected. The Formula 1000 cars are a blast to drive as are the carryovers I liked from 2 (Formula Ford--which do seem grippier--and GT Lights for example).

Can't wait to get online with this one.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:53 am

I hate you all ...

Patience, patience. This is a very good exercise in patience for me, you f*ckers!

Keep the impressions coming. They kill me until I get this game, but the feedback is much appreciated.

Take care,
PK

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:55 am

The game is way to easy on the normal(70%) settings. I struggled on Toca2 with these settings but with this version i'm winning every race. I unlocked the entire oval circuit in 30 minutes last night. So while i'm ok with that, some of you veterans might not find it challenging enough. You can always increase the difficulty but my point is if it's this easy for me on normal, I would imagine it will be easy for you on the harder level.

Gman33 · Post by **Gman33** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:23 am

The Codies have definately dumbed down the game out of the box. Try racing on pro-sim settings (handling) on hard difficulty and it's a different and wonderful beast. I actually like how the two modes work. World Tour seems to me like a practice session, allowing you to get a taste of the cars. albeit not on pro-sim settings, where at the end you unlock the car class and championship circuts to race in pro-carrer mode. It's in this mode where you can run a full circuit with pro-sim settings and harder and more challenging AI. On pro-sim, cars are much less forgiving in the corners, and you really have to choose the right entry and exit points correctly or you will be in the grass or kitty litter in a hurry. Rally cars seem much improved over TRD2 and more akin to the Colin McRae series as far as handling goes. Go karts were a blast to me, as were the sand buggies. I didn't get a chance to go on-line but will in the near future. I could do without the cheesy cut scenes in World Tour mode, but they seem shorter than in TRD2. Overall to me, it's a bigger, more polished version of TRD2, which is trying to cater to more casual gamers out of the box. Veterans need to race on full pro-sim settings to get their fix. The flags are also a welcome addition and I would imagine in on-line races be a godsend for cleaner races.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:35 am

My impression. I like. Is fun. Wish My Live worked.

The GT lights are definately alot easier to handle.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:44 am

GMan, I was wondering about Pro Sim settings and the World Tour. So you're telling me I shouldn't get used to how well I could control just about every car!

Wish you could turn that on...it could be a rude awakening to go from World Tour to online.

Making the World Tour non-linear is good since you can focus on unlocking things you really want (Formula 1000, dune buggies, etc.) and not worry about things like the Semis until later.

PK, here's one for you - driving the 60s Lotus F1 car is a freaking blast. Hard as hell to control but very rewarding to put together some quick turns. Next up in my career is a vintage GP session where I'll get to drive the 1930s MB racer. In fact, I might go play that now!

Gman33 · Post by **Gman33** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:10 pm

Dave, I could not find that option in World Tour. There's only normal and hard modes right? I think on hard mode in World Tour, the AI drives a bit better but I did not notice any chages to the cars handling. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. In my short experience with the game, I tried regular and pro-sim handling on various vehicles in free race and pro career, and in every instance on the pro-sim settings, the controls were much more sensitive with regards to accelerating, braking, and turning radius The cars also seemed to travel a bit slower. To me, the World Tour mode is the appetizer and the Pro Career is the main course.

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:47 pm

Gman33 wrote: Rally cars seem much improved over TRD2 and more akin to the Colin McRae series as far as handling goes.

Yep, I thought this too. The Rally Car racing is pretty good and just like CM for sure. I don't regret selling CM5 at all right now.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:49 pm

That could be true. Oh well, it'd be nice to have Pro Sim for everything just so I don't get into a false sense of control with some cars.

One quick tip for the World Tour - check your gear ratio settings before racing in every circuit. For some reason, the default settings have an incredibly high final gear, almost like an overdrive. Moving that ratio closer to the previous gear really helps with top speed.

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:55 pm

Sprint cars have by far been the biggest dissapointment so far for me as well. GoKarts are a blast.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:03 pm

PK - if it helps, the first thing I did with TRD 3 was run some DTM races at Spa on Pro Sim settings. It was as much fun as any racing game I've ever played, despite the fact that I managed firstly to miss my braking point at Les Combes on every lap of the first race, miss the Bus Stop twice and then have the mother of all shunts in the middle of Eau Rouge in the second race. At first I couldn't quite get used to how the DTM Merc had more weight than it did in TRD 2 and how it felt more like a car with Pro Sim settings all selected, but once I did...bliss.

On reflection, I don't suppose that helps at all and I probably am a b*stard, now you mention it.

I've been grumbling at SGN about the way you're penalised for going off track and gaining and advantage whether you gained one or not, and I've not seen it mentioned in this thread so I thought I'd throw in some hot copy/paste action and see if I'm on my own here:

The 'roughing someone up' penalty flags work fine, even if they're quite harsh on occasion. The leaving the track ones, however, don't. I've been penalised for running wide and spinning through 90 degrees, running wide and then hitting the brakes to make certain I can't be seen to gain from it (then again, you're running wide, there's nothing to gain there), missing my braking point for a chicane, going off and then purposely braking to a stop, putting an outside wheel on the kerbing...

The best one of all so far was a test I ran. Run wide into a chicane, kick the car back towards the ideal line, apply the handbrake and spin backwards just inside the inner kerbing of the second part of the chicane, lump the car over the kerbs backwards, stop, turn round, carry on. It cost me, at a rough estimate, 7 or 8 seconds. I was given a black and white flag.

At Donington in the British GT series last night I put my outside wheels onto the kerb and absolutely no furthercoming out of the Old Hairpin and got penalised for it. There should not be a penalty for maximising the available track, that's absolutely ludicrous.

Starting to hack me off a bit, those flags. I believe I can turn them off, though, so that's something.

While I'm complaining, the sprint cars and the IndyCar Series are a bit disappointing as well. Not bad by any means, but not what you'd want them to be in terms of depth, handling or replay value.

The rest of it, or at least what I've played of it so far, is pretty much faultless. The few things that piss me off about it really piss me off, but at least you can work around them, and once you do it's an extremely good game.

Dave's right about the Lotus 49 as well, PK. Sorry.

Cheers,
Adam

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:54 pm

Is their a site that I can read about the tracks in the game? Thanks.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:55 pm

Simo, I was actually about to post some of the same stuff regarding the flags. It sucks, plain and simple, particularly ones like you mentioned with the British GTs, I had one with the Palmer Audis that was similar. It is a catch-22 though, particularly online. It is great to nab the chicane-cutters of the world but a pain to additionally punish someone who ran wide and lost 5 seconds to everyone.

I'm quite worried about how poorly my World Tour abilities are going to translate to Pro Sim online sessions...

What makes the IndyCars disappointing? The NASCAR-like trucks weren't too impressive, either. They felt way too light and easy to turn. But they could be a blast online.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:02 pm

GB_Simo wrote:I've been grumbling at SGN about the way you're penalised for going off track and gaining and advantage whether you gained one or not, and I've not seen it mentioned in this thread so I thought I'd throw in some hot copy/paste action and see if I'm on my own here:

The 'roughing someone up' penalty flags work fine, even if they're quite harsh on occasion. The leaving the track ones, however, don't. I've been penalised for running wide and spinning through 90 degrees, running wide and then hitting the brakes to make certain I can't be seen to gain from it (then again, you're running wide, there's nothing to gain there), missing my braking point for a chicane, going off and then purposely braking to a stop, putting an outside wheel on the kerbing...

Yeah, this was happening to me all last night on Live. If I just got two wheels off going wide, I would lose my lap on qualifying or end up with a penalty. Once I was leading (if you can believe that) at Brands Hatch and I completely missed the last turn going very wide. It gave me the penalty saying I had gained an advantage. I am glad they tried to implement something to deter the corner cutting that was rampant in non-DSP TOCA 2 games, but this is a step in the wrong direction. A couple times I went in the grass to avoid a pile-up, and again I receive the penalty for gaining an advantage. I would really like to understand why they have implemented it like this.

I really like the qualifying and pit stop functionality. That is a big improvement.

The discussion of the Pro-Sim settings not actually doing anything in World Tour mode is puzzling. So what is the point of me turning these on if they are not available? Strange.

Official Codemasters TOCA 3 Forums:

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/ ... .php?f=267

Full Track List available here under track section:

http://www.codemasters.com/tocaracedriver3/

Edit:

Well here is a full list by country :

Australia
Mount Panorama V8 circuit (Bathurst)
Barbagallo: Long, V8 and Short circuits
Eastern Creek: Grand Prix, V8, Short and Southern Loops circuits
Queensland Grand Prix circuit
Oran Park: Grand Prix, South and North circuits
Sandown Park V8 circuit
Gold Coast Indy 300 Grand Prix circuit
Symmons Plains Raceway V8 circuit
Philip Island Grand Prix circuit
Hidden Valley Raceway
Adelaide Street circuit

Bahrain
Bahrain: Grand Prix, Internal, and External circuits

Belgium
Spa: Francorchamps Grand Prix circuit

China
Shanghai Grand Prix Circuit

Czech Republic
Brunn: Brno Grand Prix Circuit

Germany
Hockenheim: Grand Prix, National and Short circuits
Lausitzring EuroSpeedway: Grand Prix circuit
Norisring: Grand Prix circuit
Nurburgring: Short circuit
Motopark Oschersleben: Grand Prix, 'B' and 'C' circuits

Ireland
Mondello Park: International, National and Short circuits

Netherlands
Zandvoort: Grand Prix, National, Club and Oostelijk circuits

New Zealand
Pukekohe Park Raceway

Turkey
Istanbul Park Circuit

UK
Donington Park: Grand Prix and National circuits
Oulton Park: International, Island and Foster circuits
Silverstone: Grand Prix, International, National, and South circuits
Brands Hatch: Grand Prix and Short Indy circuits, plus Rally Cross track
Bedford Autodrome: GT, North, East, South and West circuits
Snetterton
Castle Coombe

USA
Indianapolis Motor Speedway Oval
Nashville Super Speedway
Dover International Raceway
Gateway International Raceway
Gateway International Raceway Road course
Laguna Seca Grand Prix circuit

Plus:
Original circuits designed exclusively for the game:

3 UK Rally courses
3 International Rallycross courses
2 Go Kart circuits
5 National Dirt Raceway circuits

** I got this list straight from Codemasters, but it does not appear to be exactly what I am seeing in game. I will update as I verify tracks and layouts in game.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:09 pm

DChaps wrote:The discussion of the Pro-Sim settings not actually doing anything in World Tour mode is puzzling. So what is the point of me turning these on if they are not available? Strange.

They are available in the Pro Career mode, but I noticed that I have to choose that while I'm choosing my car, it doesn't load automatically.

I'm not sure when they are automatically active, which is a bummer.

While I'm going to put in an insane amount of time with this game, I don't have the patience to do random races within each series to get a grip on how they are going to handle in our DSP races. It'd be a lot nicer to get that feel in the short series in the World Tour.

Enough grumbling about that from me, though. So at least I have three gripes so far--Pro-Sim, sprint cars, and weird flag intelligence.

Otherwise, great game.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:11 pm

Dave,

In honesty, it might well be my own expectations that make the IndyCars disappointing. Turn the Pro Sim off and it's just like playing the American 1000's or whatever they were called in TRD 2, and with the Pro Sim on it's a weightier version of the same thing. On reflection, that's probably exactly what I should have been waiting for, but with the licence in the game I was hoping they might have done a bit more. It all gets a bit dull a bit quickly, especially when there are only 4 tracks to race in the Pro Career and not every team is represented.

There are a few series in TRD 3 that would work as a stand-alone game. DTM would, the Palmer Audis would, hopefully the V8 Supercars will be the same. The IndyCars, much like the Silverado trucks you mentioned, just feel a little bit 'so what?' to me.

I agree with you and Don that at least from the online viewpoint it's nice to see Codemasters trying something to keep it fair, but the implementation is giving me cause to scratch my head. If I'm not careful it'll give me cause to buy a new Controller S as well.

Cheers,
Adam

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:21 pm

DChaps wrote: Yeah, this was happening to me all last night on Live. If I just got two wheels off going wide, I would lose my lap on qualifying or end up with a penalty. Once I was leading (if you can believe that) at Brands Hatch and I completely missed the last turn going very wide. It gave me the penalty saying I had gained an advantage. I am glad they tried to implement something to deter the corner cutting that was rampant in non-DSP TOCA 2 games, but this is a step in the wrong direction. A couple times I went in the grass to avoid a pile-up, and again I receive the penalty for gaining an advantage. I would really like to understand why they have implemented it like this.

I really like the qualifying and pit stop functionality. That is a big improvement.

The discussion of the Pro-Sim settings not actually doing anything in World Tour mode is puzzling. So what is the point of me turning these on if they are not available? Strange.

Official Codemasters TOCA 3 Forums:

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/ ... .php?f=267

Full Track List available here under track section:

http://www.codemasters.com/tocaracedriver3/

I think if you come back on where you went off, it won't penalize you. Yeah, the flags are screwy, but they don't seem as screwy online as they were in Indy Car, for example, where you could get penalized for passing under yellow when the car that caused the yellow was right in front of you. Here again, the yellows come out super-fast, but last night I didn't once get a caution for passing under yellow when it was the cars that caused the yellow I was passing. I had been worried about that. Now the yellows (road courses, I'm talking about) are as much a warning of cars off-track or sideways as anything, and so I like how quick they are. Anyway, the host can change the numbers of warnings online and I think that would allow more leeway, or the host can turn off the course cutting or reckless driving individually if they really become detrimental.

Every time I check my profile settings after racing some World Tour mode, the pro-sim settings seem to have returned to their default, 'off' setting. I think that's just what World Tour mode is, but that's OK with me since all I really want to use it for is opening up car classes, so more forgiving works for me. Online, the host can set handling, gravel traps, and *

* can't remember, one other thing * to Off, Sim, or Pro-Sim. I had them all set to Pro-Sim last night. However, if you check your Driver settings in Select Car (hit X) you can turn on or off the Pro-Sim options there. So, I don't know what that's about. I don't know if the host is overriding, or these are different things, or what is up. I certainly noticed a difference in those weird Palmer dealies, they were much harder online than when I was running them in World Tour mode.

Overall, I am psyched as hell about the improvements to online setup. All the classes we did last night excepting the off-road stuff had tons of tracks in their 'full calendar.' Different classes have either lap-number or timed practice and/or qualifying sessions, and the info screen tells you what the real series's qualifying rules are. Online the flags are very timely and helpful (blue flags, yellows like I said) even if the virtual marshalls are harsher than your average human judge. Mandatory pit stops online as a setting, with tire wear, tire temp, engine temp, better damage model, very nice and easy to use and comprehend pit stop mechanic. And SO MANY AWESOME CLASSES TO RUN ONLINE!!

The biggest disappointment to me is, frankly, that this game is on Xbox. The graphics are not so good to look at. They function very well, and the cars look awesome, but there is crazy jagginess in the track edges in the distance, and let's face it, 360 is here and it's time to step forward. Still, the racing is so much fun that once I'm engrossed (doesn't take long) I am just enjoying it thoroughly.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:43 pm

Zeppo wrote:I think if you come back on where you went off, it won't penalize you....... I had them all set to Pro-Sim last night. However, if you check your Driver settings in Select Car (hit X) you can turn on or off the Pro-Sim options there. So, I don't know what that's about. I don't know if the host is overriding, or these are different things, or what is up.

Hmmm... but that is easier said than done when the car is moving forward.

If the host is not forcing the pro-sim settings for everyone else, that kind of kills the whole point. I wish Codemasters would give some detailed info about how all the Pro-Sim settings work between all the different modes. I will try posting some questions to their forums and see if we can get a response.

b_assassin · Post by **b_assassin** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:46 pm

I picked up the PS2 version and I'm really enjoying it thus far. I've mostly been playing through the world tour, and spending some time in the oval series. The penalty flags haven't bit me too hard yet, but I can see how people are getting annoyed by them. I've logged into the online lobbies, have yet to join any races, but what I've seen seems well implemented. Overall, the experience has been very smooth, with minimal load times and decent graphics. Sure it would be cool if it was a next-gen title, but I'm having fun with it nonetheless.

The only really glitch/issue I've noticed thus far is that exiting pit road at Indy with the Supertrucks damn near wrecks you every time. The AI repeatedly hit the wall exiting pit road, and I barely saved myself from the wall when I did it. Anyone notice this in any of the other series that run at Indy?

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:09 pm

just got my copy tonite. looking forward to firing up this baby and seeing you guys on XBL.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:05 am

PK, or whoever knows the answer to this: Are all of the races in T3 real life events? The muscle cars racing on dirt tracks, the go karts etc? Also, how realistic are the tracks? One guy on another forum was saying that the elevation at Bathurst was way off. Trying to educate myself a little bit in the world of racing. Thanks.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:10 am

Theo:

Not all of the tracks are licensed in TOCA 3, but most are. If the track has a generic name, like Dirt Track USA or Kart Track 1, it's generic. If it has a legitimate-sounding name, chances are it's licensed and real.

As for the cars, some of the series are licensed: IndyCar Series, Formula Palmer Audi, Formula Ford, Renault Clio Cup, etc., etc. Others are generic. But I can assure that racing is taking place in those kinds of cars on those types of tracks at some point somewhere in the world each year.

I haven't run Bathurst yet, so I can't comment on its authenticity. I also never have seen much of Bathurst on TV, so I'm not really an authority on it.

Brands Hatch Indy seems a bit more forgiving in the left-hander after coming down the hill, but something makes me think I read in Autosport where some reprofiling was done there in reality in the last year or so. But there is a new, NASTY bump in the middle of the last right-hander at Brands heading to the front straightaway that I don't remember from TOCA 2. It will unweight the rear of a lightweight open-wheel car in a hurry if you hit it square.

Take care,
PK