OT: Super Bowl Predictions

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Leebo33
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Post by Leebo33 »

Danimal wrote:Without a doubt, if that is Ward it doesn't get called and you know it. Ward pushed off at least 3 or 4 times last night and I didn't see it called on him. Just like the NBA, certain guys get away with s***. f***in Chris Carter made a career out of it.
Hmmm...Ward gets called for PI occassionally. Probably as often as any other receiver. Maybe you can remember this one vs. the Bears?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbypla ... 11_CHI@PIT

I'd be interested in hearing the plays that Ward pushed off on. I've got the game on the DVR.
Last edited by Leebo33 on Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ScoopBrady »

You know what? Blown calls are a part of sports. Every single one of them. I'm still pissed that the Bears were screwed out of a victory against the Lions last year thanks to a ref saying that Bernard Berrian didn't make a catch on a touchdown when he clearly did. It even went to review and they still didn't give it to him. In a situation like that it truly does effect the outcome since it was at the end of the game. I've come to terms with blown calls in sports if they happen at a time where the team on the wrong end of things have a chance to overcome them. We all face adversity in our lives and sports are no different.

Every call that went the Steelers way happened when there was plenty of time left for the Seahawks to do something about it. They didn't.

The White Sox championship was brought up earlier in this post and I can tell you with 100% honesty that their championship is not hollow to me. I look at plays like the AJ dropped third strike play and realize that there were still 2 outs and they needed to steal 2nd and drive the run home. Not the easiest thing in the world to do.

The only way to truly minimize the number of bad calls in any sport is too overanalyze every play with as many camera angles as possible and I'm pretty sure nobody wants that to happen.
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Post by Leebo33 »

ScoopBrady wrote:The White Sox championship was brought up earlier in this post and I can tell you with 100% honesty that their championship is not hollow to me. I look at plays like the AJ dropped third strike play and realize that there were still 2 outs and they needed to steal 2nd and drive the run home. Not the easiest thing in the world to do.
Yes, but who knows how that affected the MOMENTUM? Just kidding...It shouldn't be hollow. I just mentioned that one because I saw it on ESPN.
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Post by XXXIV »

ScoopBrady wrote:You know what? Blown calls are a part of sports. Every single one of them. I'm still pissed that the Bears were screwed out of a victory against the Lions last year thanks to a ref saying that Bernard Berrian didn't make a catch on a touchdown when he clearly did.
Very true.

Im still pissed about the phantom holding call in the 1976 NFC championship game that might have cost the Rams a trip to SBXI.


ScoopBrady wrote:The White Sox championship was brought up earlier in this post and I can tell you with 100% honesty that their championship is not hollow to me. .
It cant be very hollow. They were 15-1 in the post season. Thats a playoff run of biblical proportions.
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Post by Feanor »

I'm stil mad about the Australian cricket umpire not giving the Aussie tailender out LBW when he was absolutely plum. This was in the late 80s and it stopped New Zealand from winning the match and drawing the test series. They have neutral cricket umpires now, but they still make plenty of mistakes.
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Post by HipE »

I think Pittsburgh got screwed in the Super Bowl also, at least the fans did. Maybe not by the officials in the game, but in the media afterwards. I know, I have a lot of nerve complaining about a Super Bowl win, but how much does a win really mean if nobody really considers you the champion?

I think part of what makes winning a championship fun for the fans of the winning team is finally getting respect from fans of other teams and the media (not that I would know after the past two days). I was sky high after the game Sunday night, finally getting to watch one of my teams win a championship. I spent yesterday surfing various sports websites (ESPN, CNNSI, Fox Sports), only to see headline after headline, feature story after feature story proclaiming "Pittsburgh steals Super Bowl" or "Seattle steamed after officials steal game from them". Nobody is talking about how the Steelers had a run that may never be duplicated in NFL history, beating two #1 seeds, a 2 seed and a 3 seed to win the title. If anything at all is mentioned about the Steelers three touchdown drives, it is about how they were the only plays the Steelers made all game long, and how they were dominated in every statistical category. Even people saying that the officials didn't decide the game follow it up by saying Seattle lost it or should have won even in spite of the calls. I don't think I read or saw anything at all yesterday about the Steelers actually winning the Super Bowl.

Are people really so angry about the pushoff that was called on Seattle and the holding call that negated a Seattle completion that they feel the need to undermine the Steelers victory every chance they get? Or are people just angry that the game wasn't very well played, and because of that they are focusing on a few judgement calls in an attempt to steal any possible glory from the winner? Heath Miller also got called for offensive pass interference, I don't remember ABC showing any replays that showed him interfering. The Steelers got backed up to a 3rd and 28 on that series, and they converted it and scored a touchdown. If Ben throws an interception on that 3rd and 28, is it only because Heath Miller got called for pass interference? Also, I haven't seen anybody talking about Ben getting tackled from behind by a Seattle player on Herndon's interception return. If Seattle is called for a hold on that return and it moves them back to the 50 to start their drive, do they still score a touchdown there? People can talk about Seattle's dominance all they want, but for all of Seattle's yards they gained, the only touchdown they scored was after that interception return. Does Ben throwing the ball one yard further on that pass really change how good the Steelers were this year? How often is holding called in a game and the replay is never even shown? If John Madden doesn't say that hold that was called doesn't look like a hold to him, is that call even a story? Since when is his word taken as gospel anyway?

On FSN Pittsburgh's "Savran on Sportsbeat" show last night, Stan said he had been getting calls and emails all day from fans about the national reaction to Pittsburgh's win, and they wonder how Steelers fans should feel about the win. Stan gave some good advice, saying "Don't let other people decide how you feel about something for you". I'm trying to follow that advice, but the win is not nearly as satisfying for me as I hoped it would be, and it isn't because of how the game played out. I know Seattle fans and fans of all other teams would love to have it this bad, but think about how you would feel if it was your team in this position, and this was the reaction to your team's win. I don't blame Seattle fans at all for being upset and lashing out, I would probably feel the same way in their shoes. But to have all of the mainstream national media focus nearly all of their coverage on how Pittsburgh shouldn't have won the game and doesn't deserve to be the recognized as champions is really tiring to me, regardless of the calls or statistics.

I'm sorry that I'm being a sore winner with my whining, it isn't my intent to disrespect Seattle or their fans in any way, especially their fans on this forum who have been very classy. I guess I'm just kind of bummed out that this is my reward as a fan after what was an unprecedented two month run.
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Post by Feanor »

You make good points but you'll enjoy this Championship for the rest of your life and the referee controversy will blow over fairly soon by comparison.
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Post by XXXIV »

Feanor wrote:You make good points but you'll enjoy this Championship for the rest of your life and the referee controversy will blow over fairly soon by comparison.
Yes.
In 5-10-20-30 years all anyone one will remember is that SBXL was the Steelers 5th SB title...Everyone except seahwk fans. That is the way its meant to be.
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Post by Danimal »

Leebo33 wrote:
Danimal wrote:Without a doubt, if that is Ward it doesn't get called and you know it. Ward pushed off at least 3 or 4 times last night and I didn't see it called on him. Just like the NBA, certain guys get away with s***. f***in Chris Carter made a career out of it.
Hmmm...Ward gets called for PI occassionally. Probably as often as any other receiver. Maybe you can remember this one vs. the Bears?

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbypla ... 11_CHI@PIT

I'd be interested in hearing the plays that Ward pushed off on. I've got the game on the DVR.
Go back and watch the game, I can't recall the plays but he does use his arm for seperation (I might add like just about any other WR in the NFL) but they weren't in the end zone and not called. If they called Offensive PI everytime it occured, they couldn't run a pass play in the NFL.

Regardless, my point still stands, certain guys get away with more then other players. It happens in every sport, are you disputing that fact?
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Post by Leebo33 »

HipE wrote:Also, I haven't seen anybody talking about Ben getting tackled from behind by a Seattle player on Herndon's interception return. If Seattle is called for a hold on that return and it moves them back to the 50 to start their drive, do they still score a touchdown there?
Holy sh*t! I forgot about that. Excellent point!
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Post by Leebo33 »

Danimal wrote:I can't recall the plays
LOL. Well, he had 5 receptions. It wasn't on the shoestring catch, the TD catch, or the Randle El pass. I don't recall him pushing off at all.
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Post by bdunn13 »

I think it was a clip and not a hold and yeah it was pretty obvious and prob a bad no call as well. No one talks about it b/c Pitt won. However, if they lost, the Seattle would have won b/c of the men in stripes(or at least thats what this thread would be about).
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Post by lexbur »

I see the parade is going on right now in Pittsburgh.

Is that the head referee I see as the Grand Marshal?
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Post by Leebo33 »

Danimal wrote:Regardless, my point still stands, certain guys get away with more then other players. It happens in every sport, are you disputing that fact?
Nope. I'm just positive that a receiver like Jackson, with 378 catches and 37 career TDs, is just as likely to get the benefit of the doubt as Hines Ward.
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Post by Leebo33 »

lexbur wrote:I see the parade is going on right now in Pittsburgh.

Is that the head referee I see as the Grand Marshal?
How would you know that parades have Grand Marshalls? There hasn't been a parade in Cleveland during your lifetime.
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Post by Danimal »

Leebo33 wrote:
Danimal wrote:I can't recall the plays
LOL. Well, he had 5 receptions. It wasn't on the shoestring catch, the TD catch, or the Randle El pass. I don't recall him pushing off at all.
Last time I checked, you didn't need the ball thrown to you for their to be an illegal contact call after 5 yards.

You still haven't anwsered the question, you're telling me that certain players like Ward don't get away with more then others? I'll have to go back and watch the game again, because based on your silence, the Steelers wideouts must run their routes with their arms at their sides to avoid breaking the rules. LOL
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Post by Leebo33 »

Danimal wrote:Last time I checked, you didn't need the ball thrown to you for their to be an illegal contact call after 5 yards.
How many times have you seen it called?
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Post by Leebo33 »

Danimal wrote:You still haven't anwsered the question, you're telling me that certain players like Ward don't get away with more then others?
I did answer it. I think the chances that a player like Ward would get more of a benefit of the doubt than a (former Pro Bowler?) player like Jackson is minimal.
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Post by peabody »

Seattle lost the game in the first half. Yeah, there was the offensive pass interference call on the touchdown, but Seattle had so many opportunities. They dominated the first 25 minutes of that game and only had 3 points to show for it. They should have been up 10-0 or 14-0. That’s what happens when you squander opportunities.
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Post by Danimal »

Leebo33 wrote:
Danimal wrote:Last time I checked, you didn't need the ball thrown to you for their to be an illegal contact call after 5 yards.
How many times have you seen it called?
Which would go back to my point just a few posts ago that if it was called everytime it happened, you would not be able to run a pass play in the NFL.

I also highly doubt that the Seattle WR (regardless of his stats) gets the same respect from officials that Ward does, but we will just disagree.

For the record i have no problem with that call, I think 90% of the time it doesn't get called. It did, oh well. If that was the only odd call of the game, we aren't having a discussion on this matter.

On an related note, how happy do you think the NFL officials are today when Ben said on letterman he didn't think he got into the end zone. I'm sure he got a nice little call from a few people.
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Post by DivotMaker »

Leebo33 wrote: Thanks for noticing. I have never encountered a poster with such a persecution complex.
Persecution complex? I posted my thoughts on the topic of the poor officiating in the game and its impact on people's perception of the game. You took my comments out of context and tried to make more of them than what was intended. I will admit that I likely mis-spoke one or two words that could be interpreted incorrectly. For that, I apologize. I even retracted my comments to Brando about "no one" making such conspiracy claims. However, you did persist with the argument when I stated that I was clearly finished with it because I could see where the discussion was headed. I congratulated the Steelers for winning the game, even though it is unfortunate that at the present time their championship is clouded by the poor officiating. I nor you have any control over that, however, you continually respond with more questions about a subject that I am finished with. Your team won the game. End of story.

Leebo33 wrote:Everyone is against him and everyone is combative. How many times does he enter a thread, accuse others of being combative, say he is walking away, comes back, says he will stay away from volitale discussions, repeat, rinse, etc?
This is the first time I can ever remember have an issue with you. Any other time an issue of this type can usually be traced to one or two people and we all know who they are. Most of the threads you describe have involved EA, not ones of this nature. I have come to expect some combativeness in threads regarding EA, but not in threads like this one. At the end of the day, you did not like what I had to say about the officiating and you took exception to it even though others used words far more accusatory than I did. Not sure why you chose to focus on my comments, but that is water under the bridge as far as I am concerned.

I am disappointed in how this thread has turned out. It certainly was not my intention, but I will take responsibility for my actions.
Leebo33 wrote:I don't think I ever made anything personal at any time. I'm sorry I embarrassed him after his early comments by posting the quotes he missed in the first three pages. I thought I kept it neutral. I guess that was too combative?
You did not embarrass me at any time. I embarrassed myself by not looking the thread over before making the comments I did regarding a "consipiracy". My bad. Pretty sure I admitted such in a response to Brando. End of story.

As far as the combative piece, I tried several times to lay the discussion down and walk away, yet you kept responding and bringing up more questions that I felt were unnecessary. If "combative" was too strong of a word, my apologies. Maybe "persistence" would have been better. If so, I stand corrected. My learning from this is to never state "I am done with this thread" because there is always someone who is going to do their best to keep it going. I should know better.
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Post by DivotMaker »

Danimal wrote: On an related note, how happy do you think the NFL officials are today when Ben said on letterman he didn't think he got into the end zone. I'm sure he got a nice little call from a few people.
Even more disappointing is the fact that the NFL office has agreed that several calls in the game were blown. As a fan of the NFL, they need to fix this as it has been going on for some time, but this is the first time I can remember that the officiating has taken so much of the attention off of the game and the outcome, which is very unfortunate.
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Post by Bill_Abner »

You hear players talk about this in every sport. Certain players get certain calls. It happens. Michael Jordan would get calls that John Starks wouldn't. Even NBA refs admitted to this on the Dan Patrick show a few years ago.

Does Hines Ward get that treatment? I have no idea. Jerry Rice DEFINITELY did, though. To say that refs don't take that into account at all is just not right. I remember that classic line from the Ken Burns Baseball documentary when the rookie pitcher tossed three straight apparant strikes to Rogers Hornsby and the veteran ump called them all balls and told the rook that when you throw a strike, "Mr. Hornsby will let you know."

What gets me about the PI call is that you have to be consistant -- if that's PI then you have to throw the flag more than once in the game because the extended arm move by an NFL WR is as common as the stiff arm by a RB.

I still contend that Seattle had as much to do (moreso) with that loss than any bad calls or calls. But bad calls they were.
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Post by Leebo33 »

DivotMaker wrote:My learning from this is to never state "I am done with this thread" because there is always someone who is going to do their best to keep it going. I should know better.
I agree. I had people PMing me wondering how many times you would leave and come back to this thread. :D You probably don't even realize you do it, but you have done it quite a bit in the past.

I always thought a message board as an open forum. I didn't know we had to disengage each individual user and specifically end conversations. I wasn't specifically keeping it going for your benefit. It was more rhetorical. I'll be more clear next time.
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Post by Leebo33 »

Bill_Abner wrote:Does Hines Ward get that treatment? I have no idea. Jerry Rice DEFINITELY did, though. To say that refs don't take that into account at all is just not right.
I'm not disagreeing. But I see no reason why a ref would give special treatment to Chris Hope over Darrell Jackson.
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