NFL Discussion (Week 13) ESPN will burn in hell

EDiddy · Post by **EDiddy** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:09 am

Why is everyone complaining about Orton? He's a 4th round draft pick. What do you expect.

Woooo Nelllie. Dont even make me start naming the late round NFL quarterbacks who have had great careers.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:03 am

For those thinking the Bears should yank Orton, what alternatives do they have? I would love for Chicago to have more stability at the QB position, but exchanging Orton for Blake or Grossman seems like a risk without much chance for reward. I'd rather see the coaching staff change it's playcalling a bit, especially with Berrian back, and try and stretch the field more.

I also think the "one and done" talk ignores what the Bears have accomplished this year. This team has already beaten two NFC playoff contenders. They clearly have the best defense in the league, and they are fifth in rushing offense. They may have a terrible passing attack, but if they get a playoff game at Chicago, it plays right into their strengths.

Unlike the 2001 squad, this is a younger team that will be together for a few years. They are picking up the kind of confidence and experience that should help make this the first of several winning seasons and playoff runs. I completely agree that the QB job should be wide open next year (including bringing in any free agents). Right now, though, Orton seems like their best bet.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:17 am

Of course, the bigger question than the Bears QB situation is: can the Colts run the table? And should Dungy rest players and risk losing this chance to make history?

They should handle the Jags and Cardinals without too much trouble, even if Dungy sits guys against Arizona. San Diego will probably be tough, but that's at Indy so I think they will win. Seattle is going to be the lynchpin for a perfect regular season. If the Colts win against Jacksonville and San Diego, they will have home field tied up by the time they reach the Seattle game, while the Seahawks probably will still be fighting for home field. What do you do?

I know the ultimate goal is always the Super Bow, but I think Indy's got to push for the perfect season. It's the difference between joining the class of 39 or joining the class of 1. I think it could actually demoralize the players if he pulled starters in week 16 or 17 with the record in sight.

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:28 pm

Just be glad you guys aren't Lions fans. I'm paying DirecTV $200 a year to watch this freak show. Let's see...

Matt Millen on Monday: We're using these final five games to develop our young players.

Dick Jauron on Wednesday: We're starting Jeff Garcia

Dick Jauron on Sunday: Charles Rogers was deactivated to make room for a special teams player.

Why do I hear that Sesame Street song that goes "One of these things is not like the others" playing in my head over and over and over again.

Dre "It's All on Harrington" Bly and the rest of the Detroit secondary got burned consistently by the oh-so-deadly Brad Johnson/Koren Robinson connection.

And then there's the fact that Ford Field security made more tackles in the stands trying to confiscate all the Fire Matt Millen signs than the Lions defense did on the field.

As a fan I can deal with the losing, but this team is a dysfunctional embarrassment. Given that I've now lived in Indy for six years you've really got to question why I don't just suck it up and become a Colts fan. I guess it's too late to do that now and not be called a bandwagoner, though.

---Todd

Wrekcut1 · Post by **Wrekcut1** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:35 pm

I think without a doubt that Dungy will be sitting players. His goal is going to be the Super Bowl. Even with a perfect season, if they lose key personnel, they could jeopardize their chances for the Super Bowl win. And having a perfect season and losing the Super Bowl will be even worse and no one will give a crap about them going undefeated, because they didn't finish it.

Look at the record last year that Peyton broke. He could have demolished that record, but the main focus was the playoffs, so he sat out of alot of the final games.

For me, I say the SuperBowl should be the focus. That will mean alot more in the end. If they could do both then great, but I would expect Dungy to sit people.

EDiddy · Post by **EDiddy** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:36 pm

Man I thought Charles Rodgers was going to be a big time pro. He was a stud at Michigan State. He must have some serious mental issues, becuase he has all the physical gifts. Maybe ((Randy Moss) - 100 IQ points), geesh, thats one athletic corky.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:43 pm

Only thing I can say about my Raiders:

I've never seen a team play so well and be dominated so badly. San Diego is so surgically efficient it's silly. Oakland filled gaps well, didn't abandon rushing lanes, and tackled well...and still got blown out of the stadium. Defensively, they played as well as I've ever seen them play against San Diego in the Tomlinson era (25 for 86 yards or something is pretty much about half of his normal output against Oakland) and still couldn't compete. When the offense goes 3 and out twice in the 3rd you've got a problem. Think it was like 14 minutes TOP to 1 in the 3rd.

I had such a strange conflict going on during that game. On one hand I'm going "well boys you're playing hard. Keep tackling, don't screw up and give up big plays, just hang in there". They did that. Only problem was, when you do that and wait for the opposing offense to screw up....and they don't....you bleed to death slowly.

The Raiders aren't very good, but they played well last night. And still got destroyed...

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:51 pm

Terry:

Since watching the Bolts absolutely destroy the Bills a few weeks back, my wife and I have agreed that if any team is going to take down Indianapolis this regular season, it's not going to be Seattle or Jacksonville. It's going to be San Diego.

The combination of Brees-Tomlinson is pretty scary.

Take care,
PK

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:06 pm

pk500 wrote:Terry:

Since watching the Bolts absolutely destroy the Bills a few weeks back, my wife and I have agreed that if any team is going to take down Indianapolis this regular season, it's not going to be Seattle or Jacksonville. It's going to be San Diego.

The combination of Brees-Tomlinson is pretty scary.

Take care,
PK

I'll be there to watch that one, should be a hell of a game, last year's surely was. Can't wait for my first game in the Dome since I moved away from Indy a few years ago.

Selfishly, I want them to go 19-0 so they can be considered one of the all-time great teams. Since they'll have a first round bye, I don't think the offense will rest for entire games down the stretch. But guys like Sanders, Freeney, and June could miss games to help them recover from some nagging injuries.

marino · Post by **marino** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:09 pm

pk500 wrote:Great win for the Dolphins. Epic, embarrassing choke by my Bills.

This loss could cost Mularkey his job at the end of the year, and maybe it should. The Bills have ZERO heart. The Dolphins may stink, but Saban was able to fire up that team and make it believe it could win.

Mularkey has lost the Bills. Any team with any pride and respect for its staff never would have collapsed like that.

I hang my head in shame. At least the game wasn't high-stakes like the old Dolphins-Bills battles, but the loss could be really high stakes for Mularkey, as in costing him his job in the first week of January.

I wouldn't cry to see him go. The Bills are going nowhere with Mularkey as head coach and Donohoe as GM. In fact, they're regressing from last year. Mr. Wilson needs to clean house.

Take care,
PK

Well said PK. I live in Buffalo and can't stand the Bills, but my GOD this team has been broken since Marv Levy left.Just think the idiot Donohoe interviewed both Lewis and Fox and decided to go with Greg Williams. Are you kidding me?He was run out of Pittsburgh for a reason and Bills fans are now seeing why.He is an arrogarant ass and does not want a coach or owner telling him what to do.His whole tenure here and he has failed to address the offensive and defensive line.It all starts in the trenches and he blew it there, and when he did draft high he blew it on Mike williams.

Crip they haven't had a good offensive or defensive line since their heyday in the early 90's.

What does Mullarkey think he is a wizardy of deception?First and goal at the three and you pass .I am sorry but you run, run, run and if the best proclaimed running back can't get in you kick the field goal.That three point probably would have sealed the game.

He SHOULD BE FIRED TODAY FOR THAT COMPLETE MELTDOWN.

What about Nate Clements(lockdown corner).Lets just ask Chris Chambers about him and his greatness.He dropped that early int that would have resulted in a touchdown early in the game.Hemakes plays but when you really need one he just doesn't produce.All mouth but nothing on the field to back it up.His post game comments were a joke, saying he could play with anybody in the league.Chris Chambers is no randy moss or Owens but he looked like them yesterday.

The sad thing for Bills fans is that they probably will have to start over again(if Wilson cares at all) with a new gm and coach.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:13 pm

If Chambers doesn't drop those three balls (probably 5 but they didn't count two of them) he would have had 20 catches for 300 yards. As it was 15 for 238 isn't too shabby.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:23 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:If Chambers doesn't drop those three balls (probably 5 but they didn't count two of them) he would have had 20 catches for 300 yards. As it was 15 for 238 isn't too shabby.

And Rosenfels to Chambers for that 50-plus yarder on the last drive was the play of the game, not the Ronnie Brown run. The run and hurdle was impressive, but that pass to Chambers on the final drive shattered the Bills. That was the end, right there.

A ton of heart by Miami. As much as I HATE the Dolphins, that comeback was pure guts with a smidge of lousy offense and defense by the Bills.

Take care,
PK

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:25 pm

Braylon Edwards done for the season:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news_roo ... 910.0.html

Not that it matters at this point.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:33 pm

pk500 wrote:And Rosenfels to Chambers for that 50-plus yarder on the last drive was the play of the game, not the Ronnie Brown run. The run and hurdle was impressive, but that pass to Chambers on the final drive shattered the Bills. That was the end, right there.

Anytime Rosenfels' name is in "play of the game" you know you're team is in trouble. Eeesh. Nothing like doing a little competing and then ending up with the 15th pick in the draft. If you're gonna suck, suck good.

How did the Bills decide to leave Chambers single covered on the last play, I have no idea. What else would the Dolphins do in that situation?

And Ronnie's TD was a screen...not a run. Just to be technical. LOL.

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:35 pm

Bill and I have a running debate over which franchise is the most painful to watch: The Browns or the Lions.

---Todd

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:45 pm

ubrakto wrote:Bill and I have a running debate over which franchise is the most painful to watch: The Browns or the Lions.
---Todd

I'm not as familiar with the Browns but I'd have to go with the Lions. Poor draft decisions (3 frickin' WR's wtf?) outweighs poor luck (injury prone first round picks) IMO. Plus the Browns have Romeo as their coach and the Lions don't know who's going to be their coach. The name Matt Millen easily puts this debate to rest.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:50 pm

I will not comment on the Bears quarterback situation. What I will comment on is the fact that I have gone 10 straight years watching the Packers beat the Bears at Soldier Field (I didn't go to the game at UofI). Watching tons of Packer fans strutting around after the game like they owned the place. Seeing cheeseheads and Favre jerseys everywhere. Feeling like I was at a road game rather than a home game.

Yesterday the Bears exorcised those demons and beat a Brett Favre led Packer team in Soldier Field clinching a winning record and ensuring a double-digit loss record for the Packers. I'm too f***in happy to concentrate on anything else.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:11 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:I will not comment on the Bears quarterback situation. What I will comment on is the fact that I have gone 10 straight years watching the Packers beat the Bears at Soldier Field (I didn't go to the game at UofI). Watching tons of Packer fans strutting around after the game like they owned the place. Seeing cheeseheads and Favre jerseys everywhere. Feeling like I was at a road game rather than a home game.

Yesterday the Bears exorcised those demons and beat a Brett Favre led Packer team in Soldier Field clinching a winning record and ensuring a double-digit loss record for the Packers. I'm too f***in happy to concentrate on anything else.

I agree with you there, Scoop. My own father is a freakin' Packers fan, and we were at the game together, so that was beyond sweet.

OTOH, I was absolutely confident of a Bears victory yesterday and they did their damndest to screw up a game they should've won easily. But such is the life of a Bears fan.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:42 pm

Brando70 wrote:For those thinking the Bears should yank Orton, what alternatives do they have? I would love for Chicago to have more stability at the QB position, but exchanging Orton for Blake or Grossman seems like a risk without much chance for reward. I'd rather see the coaching staff change it's playcalling a bit, especially with Berrian back, and try and stretch the field more.

I also think the "one and done" talk ignores what the Bears have accomplished this year. This team has already beaten two NFC playoff contenders. They clearly have the best defense in the league, and they are fifth in rushing offense. They may have a terrible passing attack, but if they get a playoff game at Chicago, it plays right into their strengths.

Unlike the 2001 squad, this is a younger team that will be together for a few years. They are picking up the kind of confidence and experience that should help make this the first of several winning seasons and playoff runs. I completely agree that the QB job should be wide open next year (including bringing in any free agents). Right now, though, Orton seems like their best bet.

I think a better analogy might be the '86 or '87 team, which relied on a still-dominant defense and Doug Flutie at Soldier Field against the Redskins and Jay Schroeder beat the big blitzes.

Not saying that will happen, because there aren't too many teams which look like a juggernaut in the NFC. Seattle escaped with a win against the Giants and almost let the 49ers come back against them so they're not proven either. Carolina looked good until they laid an egg at Chicago.

But at some point, it could be too much pressure on a defense if the offense can't put up some points to allow a defense to play with a big enough lead to disregard the running threat.

Considering that Orton wasn't envisioned as anywhere near the top of the depth chart when he was drafted, the Bears have done well. Expectations have grown a lot though from merely winning what a lot of people described as the mediocre NFC North to now, as much of a SuperBowl contender in the NFC as any other team.

Indy-Seattle and Pittsburgh-Chicago should be good measure of the respective strengths of the conferences.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:13 am

My top 10 and a half....

1) Colts
2) Benagals
3) Broncos
4) Seahawks
5) Bears
6) Chargers
7) Jaguars

Chiefs
9) Giants
10)Patriots/Steelers

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:42 am

How 'bout them Seahawks

I could care less about the mess that is the Packers organization right now. The Seahawks could have home field and a bye week if they keep up the pace. For the first time, I actually believe that a Super Bowl is possible for Seattle. Now, if they were in the AFC I have little hope. Thank you NFL for moving Seattle into the NFC a few years back.

Another thing to note: Darrell Jackson should be back soon. That will make the Seashawks even more dangerous on offense.

EDiddy · Post by **EDiddy** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:39 pm

Nice List, I would go with

1) Colts
2) Bengals
3) Seahawks
4) Broncos
5) Chargers
6) Bears
7) Jaguars

Giants
9) Patriots
10)Steelers

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:32 pm

matthewk wrote:How 'bout them Seahawks

I could care less about the mess that is the Packers organization right now. The Seahawks could have home field and a bye week if they keep up the pace. For the first time, I actually believe that a Super Bowl is possible for Seattle. Now, if they were in the AFC I have little hope. Thank you NFL for moving Seattle into the NFC a few years back.

Another thing to note: Darrell Jackson should be back soon. That will make the Seashawks even more dangerous on offense.

They would do fine in the AFC, and I think they are better than Denver because of Alexander. They are going to get Jackson back for the playoffs at the latest, which will make them the most potent offensive team in the NFC by far and probably put them about even with the Bengals offensively.

Their schedule has been easy but I think they are a legitimate Super Bowl contender. Alexander gives Tomlinson a run for the best player in football, they have an outstanding offensive line, and Hasselback is a good, efficient QB who can make plays when needed. Their defense is in the top 10 for scoring and leads the league in sacks.

All in all, they have the kind of balance most teams lack in today's NFL.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:14 pm

Hawks are having a great season but they will have to prove themselves in the playoffs after flopping every year.

They are not that different from the teams which have made it there the last couple of years.

Jackson still drops balls so I don't think their WR corps are comparable to Chad Johnson and TJ H.

And Hasslebeck, after his snotty comment in the OT coin flip at the playoff game in Green Bay, hasn't really made the jump to the next level.

They may get through in the NFC but it wouldn't surprise me if they choked. Colts and Broncos should handle them (regardless of what happens in the Indy-Seattle game in a few weeks). Bengals should be able to score on them but I don't know if the Bengals D can stop them either.

TheHiddenTrack · Post by **TheHiddenTrack** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:28 pm

wco81 wrote:Hawks are having a great season but they will have to prove themselves in the playoffs after flopping every year.

They are not that different from the teams which have made it there the last couple of years.

Jackson still drops balls so I don't think their WR corps are comparable to Chad Johnson and TJ H.

And Hasslebeck, after his snotty comment in the OT coin flip at the playoff game in Green Bay, hasn't really made the jump to the next level.

They may get through in the NFC but it wouldn't surprise me if they choked. Colts and Broncos should handle them (regardless of what happens in the Indy-Seattle game in a few weeks). Bengals should be able to score on them but I don't know if the Bengals D can stop them either.

I don't remember seeing any drops from Jackson earlier in the year when he was healthy. How are they not that different? The offense is arguably the best in the league without Darrell Jackson, and the defense lined up 9 new defensive starters.

Hasselbeck is fine, and his "snotty" comment was funny at the very least and really not "snotty" at all. He was going against his former team and having fun.

How are the Broncos better? The Colts are great, but they don't have to worry about them until the Superbowl....and if they lose there I don't really care.