For those getting a 360 on launch (or shortly thereafter)

[Zeppo]

Just in case we were worried they didn't care (from http://www.next-gen.biz/)

'Bach Faces Shortage Frustration

By Colin Campbell

Xbox chief Robbie Bach has sought to mollify frustrated gamers and retailers, unable to get their hands on Xbox 360.

The small numbers of machines dropped into the market were picked up within hours of going on sale. Retailers are desperate for new stocks to arrive.

"We are well aware that many gamers are disappointed to have not gotten their Xbox 360 on day one," said Bach. "We are working around the clock to manufacture as many Xbox 360s as we can and are replenishing our retail channel week after week."

The severity of the shortages have been reflected in Ebay auctions, where the average selling price is $260 above the market price.'

oy

Not one store I have called claims to have any idea when new units will be arriving. Scratch that - just talked to a Circuit City here in Durham NC that told me the second week in December. Of course, I won't be down here then . . .

[Zeppo]

Do you need a hd to play on Live? Is there a shortage of those as well? I haven't seen any around here.

I believe that if you have a memory card, you can get on XBL. You would need an HD for any back-compat games or downloadable stuff, but a mem. card is all you should need for the XBL account and basic game saves.

EDIT: And yes, it does appear there is as much a shortage of HDs and wireless controllers as there is for consoles themselves. Plenty of face plates out there, though .

[pk500]

"We are well aware that many gamers are disappointed to have not gotten their Xbox 360 on day one," said Bach. "We are working around the clock to manufacture as many Xbox 360s as we can and are replenishing our retail channel week after week."

Nice spin by Bach. Pure gloss. When a company can't manufacture enough units even to meet pre-orders, then either it's creating a shortage to spike hype through the roof or has serious manufacturing and supply issues.

Come on, when you have X number of pre-orders by Oct. 1 and can't even meet those, it's not like you can use, "Gee, we had no idea this thing would be this popular," as an excuse.

A cynical attitude by me, I know, but MS isn't the market leader in the gaming industry and it has used below-the-belt tactics to achieve market dominance in operating systems and Web browsers. So I'm certainly not putting it past the boys in Redmond to have created a bit of an artificial shortage even though it's just my conspiracy theory, not proven by any facts.

I don't feel bad for the people who waited in line without pre-ordering yet didn't get a 360. Not one bit. But I do feel really bad for those who put down money on a pre-order yet still didn't get their unit. That's dirty pool by MS.

Take care,
PK

[Atxj]

Do you need a hd to play on Live? Is there a shortage of those as well? I haven't seen any around here.

I believe that if you have a memory card, you can get on XBL. You would need an HD for any back-compat games or downloadable stuff, but a mem. card is all you should need for the XBL account and basic game saves.

EDIT: And yes, it does appear there is as much a shortage of HDs and wireless controllers as there is for consoles themselves. Plenty of face plates out there, though .

I was told you have to have the hard drive to play on live. If that's not the case im going to be very angry at the Target a**hats that told me so. I even asked, can I just get the smaller memory card, and got a no response.

Can anyone solidify this question?

[Toper]

"We are well aware that many gamers are disappointed to have not gotten their Xbox 360 on day one," said Bach. "We are working around the clock to manufacture as many Xbox 360s as we can and are replenishing our retail channel week after week."

Nice spin by Bach. Pure gloss. When a company can't manufacture enough units even to meet pre-orders, then either it's creating a shortage to spike hype through the roof or has serious manufacturing and supply issues.

Come on, when you have X number of pre-orders by Oct. 1 and can't even meet those, it's not like you can use, "Gee, we had no idea this thing would be this popular," as an excuse.

A cynical attitude by me, I know, but MS isn't the market leader in the gaming industry and it has used below-the-belt tactics to achieve market dominance in operating systems and Web browsers. So I'm certainly not putting it past the boys in Redmond to have created a bit of an artificial shortage even though it's just my conspiracy theory, not proven by any facts.

I don't feel bad for the people who waited in line without pre-ordering yet didn't get a 360. Not one bit. But I do feel really bad for those who put down money on a pre-order yet still didn't get their unit. That's dirty pool by MS.

Take care,
PK

I don't think MS is entirely to blame for the preorder fiasco. As far as I can tell, the only preorders I've heard of that went unfulfilled were the one's taken by EB/GS (essentially the same company). I think only Best Buy and Walmart were the official launch stores of the 360...if that's the case, MS doesn't owe EB/GS jack, especially if MS is already commited to their launch partners. EB/GS were just overzealous when it came to preorders (which is a big part of their business model)...regardless, it's still the customers that suffer in the end.

Lastly, my take on MS not producing enough is that it probably doesn't matter (to an extent). Let's say they released double what they launched...there would still be people left out...and just more extras on ebay (albeit at a lower price). I just think that it's the holiday factor at work...people just get really crazy this time of year, and there's an artificial value that's added to something when it has to be "received" by a certain deadline (Xmas). Just my quarter-minus-2-dimes-and-3-pennies take.

Toper

[Sully]

Do you need a hd to play on Live? Is there a shortage of those as well? I haven't seen any around here.

I believe that if you have a memory card, you can get on XBL. You would need an HD for any back-compat games or downloadable stuff, but a mem. card is all you should need for the XBL account and basic game saves.

EDIT: And yes, it does appear there is as much a shortage of HDs and wireless controllers as there is for consoles themselves. Plenty of face plates out there, though .

I was told you have to have the hard drive to play on live. If that's not the case im going to be very angry at the Target a**hats that told me so. I even asked, can I just get the smaller memory card, and got a no response.

Can anyone solidify this question?

Do some research, but I also thought you only needed the memory card to play on Live.

[Zeppo]

Well, my take is that MS didn't deliberately create a shortage, but rather, when confronted with the option of releasing pre-Thanksgiving / Xmas shopping season with too-few units, or holding off until February for the release with a healthy number of units, they were 100% fine with the first option. I think the experience of the PS2 taught them that the kind of free media generated by a small supply/large demand situation in the Xmas shopping season was well worth the potential sales lost. Plus, they've learned enough about the console business, which is very limited in its options for consumers after all, that you can really push the customers and they will still end up buying the machines. As mad as I am right now for having pre-ordered, and having money set aside ready to spend, yet not having one available, it's not like I'm going to decide to skip the thing entirely and go with the PS3.

Sure, they would have made a lot more money if they could fulfill all the orders, but by the same token, they can claim 'most successful launch ever' by selling out completely, even though they only have a small percentage of the number of units the market would buy. Add in their decision to launch world-wide within a month, and I think the plus/minus of early launch vs. orders-filled launch, they chose the former.

I don't really agree with Toper's logic, though. Yes, the dedicated game stores over-sold preorders. But a very big reason for that was the lack on information coming from MS on: A.) exactly when the unit would launch, and B.) how many they could expect to get. Add in that a lot of EBs and GSes didn't even get the number of units they were told 2 weeks ago they would get, plus all the other stores, like Targets and Sears etc. that also were first promised very few (as few as 2 in some cases) and still didn't even get that many, and I think a heavy burden of blame must be put on MS's shoulders. It's one thing to not have enough units to fill every pre-order at EB, but entirely another to tell a Target 'you will be getting X number of units' and then deliver zero.

I have pretty limited experience, being one guy running around chasing the morning of the launch, but I can't believe that if MS had doubled the launch quantity that there would be anywhere near as many people who wanted one who didn't get one. Yes, the ebay market would be relatively depressed for those who were looking to turn a quick profit, and the free media surrounding the launch would perhaps have less penetration or lasting power, but I guarantee, the game publishers, the retail outlets and the bulk of customers would all be much happier.

So yeah, MS is no dummy, they knew what they were doing. I still don't think they deliberately created a shortage as much as they were happily willing to deal with one. I think if they could have delivered twice as many units, they would have, but they are none too unhappy with the extended hype generated by the ebay madness.

[Toper]

Well, my take is that MS didn't deliberately create a shortage, but rather, when confronted with the option of releasing pre-Thanksgiving / Xmas shopping season with too-few units, or holding off until February for the release with a healthy number of units, they were 100% fine with the first option. I think the experience of the PS2 taught them that the kind of free media generated by a small supply/large demand situation in the Xmas shopping season was well worth the potential sales lost. Plus, they've learned enough about the console business, which is very limited in its options for consumers after all, that you can really push the customers and they will still end up buying the machines. As mad as I am right now for having pre-ordered, and having money set aside ready to spend, yet not having one available, it's not like I'm going to decide to skip the thing entirely and go with the PS3.

Sure, they would have made a lot more money if they could fulfill all the orders, but by the same token, they can claim 'most successful launch ever' by selling out completely, even though they only have a small percentage of the number of units the market would buy. Add in their decision to launch world-wide within a month, and I think the plus/minus of early launch vs. orders-filled launch, they chose the former.

I don't really agree with Toper's logic, though. Yes, the dedicated game stores over-sold preorders. But a very big reason for that was the lack on information coming from MS on: A.) exactly when the unit would launch, and B.) how many they could expect to get. Add in that a lot of EBs and GSes didn't even get the number of units they were told 2 weeks ago they would get, plus all the other stores, like Targets and Sears etc. that also were first promised very few (as few as 2 in some cases) and still didn't even get that many, and I think a heavy burden of blame must be put on MS's shoulders. It's one thing to not have enough units to fill every pre-order at EB, but entirely another to tell a Target 'you will be getting X number of units' and then deliver zero.

I have pretty limited experience, being one guy running around chasing the morning of the launch, but I can't believe that if MS had doubled the launch quantity that there would be anywhere near as many people who wanted one who didn't get one. Yes, the ebay market would be relatively depressed for those who were looking to turn a quick profit, and the free media surrounding the launch would perhaps have less penetration or lasting power, but I guarantee, the game publishers, the retail outlets and the bulk of customers would all be much happier.

So yeah, MS is no dummy, they knew what they were doing. I still don't think they deliberately created a shortage as much as they were happily willing to deal with one. I think if they could have delivered twice as many units, they would have, but they are none too unhappy with the extended hype generated by the ebay madness.

Zepp,

Good points...I'm not totally exonorating MS, as I'm sure there was more than one person in their marketing dept who came up with the bright idea of "Let's copy the PS2 release".

But I'm sure alot of the stores, like Target and Sears, just simply didn't know how much they were getting and just threw out numbers to deflect blame to MS. I mean, if you get a shipping report that says you're getting x units, then that's what you're getting. Everything else is just poor speculation or employees "making stuff up" to try to pass info to customers (I'm sure we've all had that happen).

As for extra production as a solution, just look at the core system for the answer. Pre-launch, many would have considered it a worthless purchase option that wouldn't move from store shelves (ie excess)...these "worthless" systems are know selling for more than twice their retail price. So unless you can make enough for everyone, then there will always be those left out, which in turn, will always create an "ebay market".

Anyways, as bad as some may feel about MS's ability to make their product available, I'm sure that the PS3 release will be 10x worse. But I'm sure that the importance of "striking first" for MS far outweighed making "enough" available and risking a head-to-head with Sony (which they would be an underdog) or Nintendo (always a factor, even though personally I"m through with them).

Toper

[dbdynsty25]

As I stated earlier...I know exactly why they came up with the whole 2 sku concept...it's simply to move more accessories, of which, they make all of their money.

They knew they were going to be short units...so why not make half of them core systems that people need to buy the accessories for. They knew people would jump all over them because it's "all that's left" and they knew they'd want the hard drive, headset, etc. They are making a killing off this sh*t.

[10spro]

As I stated earlier...I know exactly why they came up with the whole 2 sku concept...it's simply to move more accessories, of which, they make all of their money.

They knew they were going to be short units...so why not make half of them core systems that people need to buy the accessories for. They knew people would jump all over them because it's "all that's left" and they knew they'd want the hard drive, headset, etc. They are making a killing off this sh*t.

Agreed, the ratio of core systems to the premium when asked was about 4 to 1. Gamers started to buy memory cards, component cables, etc.
There's this speculation that MS loses 120 bucks for every 360 they sell, but they recover all that and more witht the accesories sales. Which if you look closely in any stores that carried the 360 is about empty as well, except the face plates.

[JRod]

First,
Guys, ADD ME TO THE LIST OF IF YOU SEE AN XBOX PREMIUM I'LL TAKE ONE.

Well in a bubble MS COULD afford to dick around until next year. If the PS3 comes out early to mid next year, the MS's plan to create hype will have backfired. I think you'll see the market full by Xmas. If there is no real production problem then I don't know why they would want to jeopardize sales. Hype only creates demand for so long. After that it turns into frustration and then you have people they just say screw it, i'll wait. This isn't a commodity we all need like oil. The oil companies can create low supply and reap in the benefits. But when there's another console from a company who has had an extremely successful model and productline, MS can not afford to not to cash in on the sales.

What I don't get is the EB/Gamestop problems. If you have 100 preorders isn't that guranteed sales in most cases? So why then did they give Wal-Mart and BB most of the consoles. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't get this. There's more to this then just consoles. In my EB and Gamestop, they have NO demo units. I find that odd. I wonder if they didn't want to push the 360 in accordance to MS wishes. So MS decided just to short changes them and those that were low on the list would just find the consoles at another store. I don't wants going on here, but I do find it odd.

Another thing that I find facinating is that MS is telling retailers don't expect steady shipments until Feb? That might be true, but I have some experience with PR and they will say just about anything corporate wants them to. (see Madden all new from the ground up). I just don't buy it. I think by xmas we'll see most that want it will find one. It won't ge easy but still possible.

[Toper]

What I don't get is the EB/Gamestop problems. If you have 100 preorders isn't that guranteed sales in most cases? So why then did they give Wal-Mart and BB most of the consoles.

I'm sure that there's some type of "side deal" going on, but from what I've heard is that Wal-mart and BB were the "official launch stores of the 360"...whatever the hell that means. If I had the choice, I'd rather partner with those chains over EB/GS, as well.

With that said, I'm sure EB/GS isn't an innocent bystander in this either. To my understanding (and please, if any of their employees read this, correct me if I'm wrong), EB/GS can be "financially motivated" in such things ranging from which companies get what floor space in their stores, to how they're suppossed to answer the phone with the latest "product push". I'm speculating here, but maybe EB/GS ranks the PS3 higher in their next-gen pecking order and MS decided to retaliate by cutting numbers. Then again, maybe EB/GS just went overboard with preorders they knew they couldn't fill at launch, and just try to convince those who miss out to just wait it out for the trickle-in shipments.

Toper

[Sport73]

First,
Guys, ADD ME TO THE LIST OF IF YOU SEE AN XBOX PREMIUM I'LL TAKE ONE.

What I don't get is the EB/Gamestop problems. If you have 100 preorders isn't that guranteed sales in most cases? So why then did they give Wal-Mart and BB most of the consoles.

1. You bet. I plan to take a drive into the middle of Florida (ass of nowhere with most people making very little money and having been hit hard by the hurricane this year), maybe I'll get lucky and find a few systems.

2. My guess is that Microsofts playing the odds. A pre-order is just that: A GUARANTEED sale. A sale at BB or Walmart might go spontaneously to a non-hardcore gamer. The idea is that by February they'll get ALL the sales in BB/Walmart AND EB/Gamestop, where if they put the consoles towards the specialty stores they'd only get the EB/Gamestop sales and ONLY reach the hardcore gamer.

[JRod]

Since it's thanksgiving. If any of the DSP'ers find a 360 for one of us, I think the least we can can do is give a gift card for applebee's, CC or something. Just a way of saying thanks for the time and trouble.

[Airdog]

But I do feel really bad for those who put down money on a pre-order yet still didn't get their unit. That's dirty pool by MS.

I believe it's "dirty pool" by EB/GS and the other companies who didn't fulfill the pre-orders.

There's a reason why some companies only took limited pre-orders (companies like Future Shop in Canada) - they knew they were only going to get a certain amount so they only pre-sold 10 a day for a month, instead of soliciting pre-orders for almost a year.

Did anybody try pre-ordering a system and get a response of "No" at any of these stores, other than in the last few weeks when the s*** really hit the fan, and EB finally decided to tell people that their pre-orders weren't going to be fulfilled?

Some stores will take pre-orders on ANYTHING, as long as it has any sort of SKU or possibility of having one. I bet you could probably still pre-order Duke Nukem Forever from EB if you wanted to. (Actually you can't - I just checked )

[bdoughty]

But I do feel really bad for those who put down money on a pre-order yet still didn't get their unit. That's dirty pool by MS.

I believe it's "dirty pool" by EB/GS and the other companies who didn't fulfill the pre-orders.

There's a reason why some companies only took limited pre-orders (companies like Future Shop in Canada) - they knew they were only going to get a certain amount so they only pre-sold 10 a day for a month, instead of soliciting pre-orders for almost a year.

Did anybody try pre-ordering a system and get a response of "No" at any of these stores, other than in the last few weeks when the s*** really hit the fan, and EB finally decided to tell people that their pre-orders weren't going to be fulfilled?

Some stores will take pre-orders on ANYTHING, as long as it has any sort of SKU or possibility of having one. I bet you could probably still pre-order Duke Nukem Forever from EB if you wanted to. (Actually you can't - I just checked )

I would have to disagree. I think PK was correct in the first place. Both EB & Gamestop stores had multiple cut offs on preorders. I know many people that were told "NO" by the local EB games MONTHS AGO. All EB and Gamestop stores can do is take pre-orders based on the estimate the corporate office gives them. Once they meet estimates they stopped taking pre orders, in many cases MONTHS AGO. Where does the Corporate office get their estimates? Why that would be from the fine folks at Microsoft who give them rough estimates of what they can expect to receive.

The last thing EB and Gamestop want is upset customers who did not get their systems at launch yet preordered. It's not like they forgot the PS2 launch fiasco. Your theory could not be further from the truth.

[Leebo33]

I was told when I pre-ordered at EB Games, "You're lucky, you got the last one." Based on discussions with associates recently and my place on the list, they took at least 68 pre-orders after me.

[bdoughty]

I was told when I pre-ordered at EB Games, "You're lucky, you got the last one." Based on discussions with associates recently and my place on the list, they took at least 68 pre-orders after me.

That might not have been a lie. At the local EB and Gamestops they took preorders then stopped when the reaced their limit, got new #'s and started taking them again. Or he could have just been shitting with you to make you feel better about your reserve. I used to make crap up to customers just to amuse myself and help pass the time.

Customer: So is Gameday 2002 for the PSX worth the $5.99 sticker price?
Me: Absolutely worth it. Why I play it on a nightly basis and the soothing announcing team of Dick Enberg and Dan Fouts has helped me with my sleep problems. You should also consider that used copy of Triple Play 2001 which is well worth $2.99.

[kevinpars]

Target - Norcross, Georgia 5:45 AM 11/25/2005

I read the rumors and figured i would give Black Friday a shot. I work close by anyway and I normally go in at 7, so it was no big deal to wait in line for a few minutes for the 6am Black Friday Target opening. A young female employee came out to let everyone know they would be opening in 5 minutes and that "there is plenty of everything." Well, except 360's.

Shoulda preordered, but back in February, this thing was vaporware. Since nothing is worth fighting holiday shopping, I won't be in a store until after Christmas except for specific Christmas gifts, so I guess it may be Spring before I get one of these things. Honestly, I won't feel too bad until College Hoops comes out on 360. The xbox version is a lot of fun, can't imagine what this would be like on a 360 with high def and any remaining kinks worked out.

[JRod]

Well I decided to go out on Black.I was actually going to try and find something else but I thought I would take a shot at a few stores.

Nada... I think we'll see some trickle in next week. I don't know where or when but it could be to meet up with weekly numbers, so Tuesday we might see a shipment.

[kevinpars]

Yeah, the "word on the street" is that Target might get some more in on Tuesday. Of course, that is pure speculation. In the meantime, I picked up Indigo Prophesy to play on the old xbox.

[Badgun]

But I do feel really bad for those who put down money on a pre-order yet still didn't get their unit. That's dirty pool by MS.

I believe it's "dirty pool" by EB/GS and the other companies who didn't fulfill the pre-orders.

There's a reason why some companies only took limited pre-orders (companies like Future Shop in Canada) - they knew they were only going to get a certain amount so they only pre-sold 10 a day for a month, instead of soliciting pre-orders for almost a year.

Did anybody try pre-ordering a system and get a response of "No" at any of these stores, other than in the last few weeks when the s*** really hit the fan, and EB finally decided to tell people that their pre-orders weren't going to be fulfilled?

Some stores will take pre-orders on ANYTHING, as long as it has any sort of SKU or possibility of having one. I bet you could probably still pre-order Duke Nukem Forever from EB if you wanted to. (Actually you can't - I just checked )

I would have to disagree. I think PK was correct in the first place. Both EB & Gamestop stores had multiple cut offs on preorders. I know many people that were told "NO" by the local EB games MONTHS AGO. All EB and Gamestop stores can do is take pre-orders based on the estimate the corporate office gives them. Once they meet estimates they stopped taking pre orders, in many cases MONTHS AGO. Where does the Corporate office get their estimates? Why that would be from the fine folks at Microsoft who give them rough estimates of what they can expect to receive.

The last thing EB and Gamestop want is upset customers who did not get their systems at launch yet preordered. It's not like they forgot the PS2 launch fiasco. Your theory could not be further from the truth.

Actually, I think it comes down to who you talk to. My EB manager was obviously stressed on launch day and after enduring another tirade by a pissed off customer, he told me that he was tired of being the fall guy for a screwup that originated with corporate higher ups. He said they were initially told to presell 50, then weeks later they were told to sell 30 more, In August they were told to sell as many as they can. By the time they were finally told to stop taking preorders, they had presold 158 systems.

As someone who spent 11 years in retail, I understand the plight of the gamestore employees. It's not their fault. They were lied to as well. I wish that every outraged customer could vent his/her frustation directly at the asshole in the suit that made this decision. But I'm sure he's tucked away in his surburban home for the 5 day break.

[JRod]

BD,

That may be so but something doesn't seem right. I think both sides are too blame. Over promised supplies or deliberate shortage from MS and Gamestop/EB whoring pre-orders. What would coporate rather have, the customer having $399 in their pocket or corporate have liquid assests from the pre-ordered. Let's do the math. If EB had 100 pre-orders and only sells 30 then that's potentially 70 pre-orders you have money for. Whether its partially or fully paid for that's money that EB can do something with.

I think MS is "managing" their supplies to create hype. They know they have a window to get this right. If they don't get the majority of the consoles out the new year they could risk losing numbers for their installation base. If they over supply the market, the burnout their console too soon. Like I said, I think by Xmas we'll see limited supplies but you will be able to find a 360.

I'm excited to see what next year's E3 brings to the table. Do we see more games made to the lowest denominator or cator to the 360? I also hope more games are made backward compatable. I would love to get rid of my xbox while still playing NCAA, MVP, WE etc.

[blueduke]

I'm excited to see what next year's E3 brings to the table. Do we see more games made to the lowest denominator or cator to the 360?

that's why I'm holding off on a 360 purchase (like I could find one now anyway)

[Sudz]

the release list for the next 2 months looks slim....

college hoops though.... drool