NFL Week 9 Discussion - Indy/Pats and no TO

[Dave]

TO should blame the NFLPA for his contract. They agreed to the rules, tough sh*t if your contract pays you great one year and poorly the next. It isn't like TO is the only player affected by contracts like his.

He should have been a member of the Ravens, I bet he would have loved the Kyle Boller experience.

[Leebo33]

Yep, he's got his money, his integrity, and no ring. If TO made a decision based on McNabb's Super Bowl performance that it wasn't going to happen in Philly and that he needed to go to Denver or somewhere else, I'm not going to judge him for it. He wants to win and the clock is ticking. If Hines doesn't mind when his quarterback chokes and then blames it on some ficticious broken toes, I'm not going to judge him for it, either. To each their own.

You have to be kidding me. The f*cking Eagles could have told TO they were giving him all of McNabb's money plus $10M a year and would sign Jay Fiedler as a replacement and TO would have been fine with that if he got paid.

Where is your evidence for that?

It's right beside the evidence you have that proves TO is in it for the ring.

[pk500]

Look at it this way- whether or not you agree or disagree with TO's behavior, there are plenty of rational grounds for it.

Such as? A deal is a deal. He had what, five years left on the deal?

Tough sh*t. If I went to my employer and said I want a raise, my employer has the right to say no. And if I continued to rant and rave and be unprofessional toward my employer, my employer has the right to suspend or fire me.

What makes the NFL any different? It's about f*cking time that player power was put in its place.

And I'm so f*cking sick and tired of hearing "careers are short." These guys make more in their three to 15 years in the NFL than most people make in their lifetime.

You sign a deal; you honor it. I don't care if the NFLPA said the Eagles' deal was a bad one; TO put his personal Sharpie on the bottom line, so he can f*ck off if he wants a new deal.

And there's nothing racist about that. You can see it any way you want.

Take care,
PK

[Inuyasha]

Look at it this way- whether or not you agree or disagree with TO's behavior, there are plenty of rational grounds for it.

Such as? A deal is a deal. He had what, five years left on the deal?

Tough sh*t. If I went to my employer and said I want a raise, my employer has the right to say no. And if I continued to rant and rave and be unprofessional toward my employer, my employer has the right to suspend or fire me.

What makes the NFL any different? It's about f*cking time that player power was put in its place.

And I'm so f*cking sick and tired of hearing "careers are short." These guys make more in their three to 15 years in the NFL than most people make in their lifetime.

You sign a deal; you honor it. I don't care if the NFLPA said the Eagles' deal was a bad one; TO put his personal Sharpie on the bottom line, so he can f*ck off if he wants a new deal.

And there's nothing racist about that. You can see it any way you want.

Take care,
PK

The whole stick to your contract argument in professional sports hasn't really worked for the last 20 years or so. It's right but in today's sports world, too many owners have caved in and renegotiated and it's opened up a pandora's box.

If I were a pro athlete and my agent convinced me that I could renegotitate and make even more money, I would probably go for it as well. Just as long as I was still getting money off my current contract. Thats the part TO messed up on.

[sfz_T-car]

Exhibit A in the "get what you can, when you can" school of NFL contract negotiations



TO is an asshole; he always has been. The Eagles had to know when they signed him that it was bound to end badly. Both sides got what they deserved IMHO.

[seanmac31]

Look at it this way- whether or not you agree or disagree with TO's behavior, there are plenty of rational grounds for it.

Such as? A deal is a deal. He had what, five years left on the deal?

Tough sh*t. If I went to my employer and said I want a raise, my employer has the right to say no. And if I continued to rant and rave and be unprofessional toward my employer, my employer has the right to suspend or fire me.

What makes the NFL any different? It's about f*cking time that player power was put in its place.

And I'm so f*cking sick and tired of hearing "careers are short." These guys make more in their three to 15 years in the NFL than most people make in their lifetime.

You sign a deal; you honor it. I don't care if the NFLPA said the Eagles' deal was a bad one; TO put his personal Sharpie on the bottom line, so he can f*ck off if he wants a new deal.

And there's nothing racist about that. You can see it any way you want.

Take care,
PK

Unless you go to a job where there is a good chance that someone is going to break your leg in two on any given day, or that you will need to undergo multiple surgical procedures and develop an addiction to painkillers so you can do you work, I don't want to hear any of this working class hero garbage. It's misplaced. These athletes have an extremely limited window to make money while playing a hazardous game, and the vast majority of them have very little leverage vis-a-vis management. I have no issue with any athlete using the limited opportunities for leverage that he does have, be it TO or Eli Manning or anyone else.

[Leebo33]

I don't blame players for holding out or trying to get as much money as possible. It's the whole concept of trying to destroy the team when you don't get your way that bothers me.

[pk500]

If I were a pro athlete and my agent convinced me that I could renegotitate and make even more money, I would probably go for it as well. Just as long as I was still getting money off my current contract. Thats the part TO messed up on.

I agree. But that same athlete -- and anyone else with a pulse -- shouldn't be surprised if that owner or franchise told the player to f*ck off because he has a signed contract.

That's what amazes me, that people actually are blaming the Eagles because they wouldn't renegotiate an existing seven-year contract that was in its second year.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Unless you go to a job where there is a good chance that someone is going to break your leg in two on any given day, or that you will need to undergo multiple surgical procedures and develop an addiction to painkillers so you can do you work, I don't want to hear any of this working class hero garbage. It's misplaced. These athletes have an extremely limited window to make money while playing a hazardous game, and the vast majority of them have very little leverage vis-a-vis management. I have no issue with any athlete using the limited opportunities for leverage that he does have, be it TO or Eli Manning or anyone else.

So I guess every fireman, policeman, person who works on a farm, in a factory with high-speed machinery, around electrical wires, etc., should hold out when they feel like it and not expect any consequences, huh?

My brother-in-law works 365 days per year, at least 10 hours per day as a dairy farmer. There are no days off -- the cows' milk production doesn't go on vacation.

He works around high-speed dangerous farm equipment every day that could kill or dismember him at any time.

I guess I should call him and tell him to walk off the job and b*tch and moan about his pay. Yeah, that will work.

Fact is, some of the "working class heroes" you ridicule work a hell of a lot harder in environments just as dangerous as Terrell Owens, and they show up for work every day, work hard, don't complain and make as much in their lifetimes as TO does in one or two years.

Take care,
PK

[Inuyasha]

If I were a pro athlete and my agent convinced me that I could renegotitate and make even more money, I would probably go for it as well. Just as long as I was still getting money off my current contract. Thats the part TO messed up on.

I agree. But that same athlete -- and anyone else with a pulse -- shouldn't be surprised if that owner or franchise told the player to f*ck off because he has a signed contract.

That's what amazes me, that people actually are blaming the Eagles because they wouldn't renegotiate an existing seven-year contract that was in its second year.

Take care,
PK

Ya the Eagles are not to blame. They don't have to renegotiate anything if it is not in their interest to.

[seanmac31]

Understood, but TO signed that contract under duress (duress from a situation that he created, but duress nonetheless). Philadelphia had all the leverage and, rather than make a stink about it, TO went ahead and signed the deal. He then went out and outplayed his contract. It wasn't unreasonable for him to look into a renegotiation, because the circumstances surrounding his initial signing were different than for a player who is re-upping with his own club or is going out on the free agent market.

Basically, what this strikes me as is the beginning of the end of the Patriots/Eagles model for building football teams. The Pats and Eagles have maintained competitive teams for longer periods than anyone would expect considering the salary cap and free agency, and the way they do it is by underpaying their players. They identify guys who are going to be good and then they look them up early with cap friendly deals. The Eagles just did it again with Brian Westbrook, who signed another puffed up deal that looks like a lot more money than it actually is. Westbrook had limited leverage, as the running back market is going to be flooded this offseason, and so the Eagles locked him up for below the going rate. You can do that with a lot of guys, but you are going to get some players who aren't amenable to being ripped off (in a relative sense). At that point, things are going to get ugly, as they have here.

[ScoopBrady]

Unless you go to a job where there is a good chance that someone is going to break your leg in two on any given day, or that you will need to undergo multiple surgical procedures and develop an addiction to painkillers so you can do you work, I don't want to hear any of this working class hero garbage. It's misplaced. These athletes have an extremely limited window to make money while playing a hazardous game, and the vast majority of them have very little leverage vis-a-vis management. I have no issue with any athlete using the limited opportunities for leverage that he does have, be it TO or Eli Manning or anyone else.

Boo-f***in-hoo. He might break his leg you say? At any moment no less? How about the cop who might get shot at any time and lose his life?

And this extremely limited window of time to make money as an athlete is a total crock of s*** as well. Last time I checked players like Dan Marino. John Elway, Michael Jordan, and Wayne Gretzky still make money. You know why they still make money? Because they weren't/aren't assholes and are beloved by many. They are still able to sign endorsements and the like as a result. TO has the talent on the field to be a beloved player but his behavioral decisions pretty much ends that. A guy like Mike Ditka is a god in the Chicago area and is pretty much set for life.

TO is taking the lazy way out. None of the guys I mentioned are making anywhere near the amount TO will this year but the difference here is the fact that the money TO wants now will be made by those guys over time while TO will make jack squat when he's gone from the game.

You'd think TO was warming up to sing in an opera or something. "Me, me, me, me, me, me, me."

[wco81]

I don't blame players for holding out or trying to get as much money as possible. It's the whole concept of trying to destroy the team when you don't get your way that bothers me.

How did he try to destroy the team? By saying unpleasant things? Or did he try to poison his teammates or injure them or somehow prevent them from being able to perform?

The reason the Eagles are underperforming has nothing to do with this one player. In fact, they are playing poorly in spite of his very high level of production.

These players and coaches are in the glare of the media spotlight. They better develop a thick skin. Philly is suppose to be an unmerciful town too.

Yeah he shouldn't have called out McNabb in public. But McNabb better not blame his performance on being called out either. When the Broncos blitzed 9 at him, they were kind of calling McNabb out too.

Talk about lack of respect.

[Jackdog]

Unless you go to a job where there is a good chance that someone is going to break your leg in two on any given day, or that you will need to undergo multiple surgical procedures and develop an addiction to painkillers so you can do you work, I don't want to hear any of this working class hero garbage. It's misplaced. These athletes have an extremely limited window to make money while playing a hazardous game, and the vast majority of them have very little leverage vis-a-vis management. I have no issue with any athlete using the limited opportunities for leverage that he does have, be it TO or Eli Manning or anyone else.

So I guess every fireman, policeman, person who works on a farm, in a factory with high-speed machinery, around electrical wires, etc., should hold out when they feel like it and not expect any consequences, huh?

My brother-in-law works 365 days per year, at least 10 hours per day as a dairy farmer. There are no days off -- the cows' milk production doesn't go on vacation.

He works around high-speed dangerous farm equipment every day that could kill or dismember him at any time.

I guess I should call him and tell him to walk off the job and b*tch and moan about his pay. Yeah, that will work.

Fact is, some of the "working class heroes" you ridicule work a hell of a lot harder in environments just as dangerous as Terrell Owens, and they show up for work every day, work hard, don't complain and make as much in their lifetimes as TO does in one or two years.

Take care,
PK

Damn right PK. And most of them shop at Walmart.

On the real don't forget the men and women that serve our country.They sign 3 to 4 year contracts(Enlistments) and if called to war can't hold out or call a news conference for more cash.

My thoughts on TO......F*ck em and his b*tch Michael Irvin.

[webdanzer]

Damn right PK. And most of them shop at Walmart.

[pk500]

Understood, but TO signed that contract under duress (duress from a situation that he created, but duress nonetheless). Philadelphia had all the leverage and, rather than make a stink about it, TO went ahead and signed the deal. He then went out and outplayed his contract. It wasn't unreasonable for him to look into a renegotiation, because the circumstances surrounding his initial signing were different than for a player who is re-upping with his own club or is going out on the free agent market.

Yes, but it was very unreasonable for him to act like an immature fool with his holdout, training camp antics, endless ripping of McNabb (who helped him outplay his contract, it should be noted) and ceaseless criticism of the Eagles' organization.

There is no justification for Owens' actions. Anyone who does either is a member of a blameless society or someone who doesn't understand the integrity of a deal.

Take care,
PK

[wco81]

Where the analogy to normal jobs fails is that these players make hundreds of millions, if not billions for these teams. So yeah, they better get as much money as they can since none of these contracts are guaranteed and they're one play away (and it could be one play in practice, not a game) from a career-ending injury.

A fireman or a truck driver or whatever can be easily replaced. It's a buyer's market. Pro athletes have more leverage, especially stars. They bring in additional revenues and make the difference between a winning and losing team.

You think those expensive new seats in Lincoln Financial would have as filled up if there wasn't such optimism about their chances last year and this year?

Individual players make the difference between good profits and huge profits. Ask the Cleveland Cavs about that. Or ask the Eagles if they don't find a way to replace Owens' production and the team tanks the rest of this year and next.

[Dave]

Understood, but TO signed that contract under duress (duress from a situation that he created, but duress nonetheless). Philadelphia had all the leverage and, rather than make a stink about it, TO went ahead and signed the deal. He then went out and outplayed his contract. It wasn't unreasonable for him to look into a renegotiation, because the circumstances surrounding his initial signing were different than for a player who is re-upping with his own club or is going out on the free agent market.

It sure as hell was duress. He should have had to play out the final season on his 49ers deal as a member of the Ravens. He f*cked up and got out of the situation.

Didn't he make more money than Moss and Harrison last year? He had a great year, but I don't know that he outplayed his contract. His deal isn't a one-of-a-kind contract, I'd bet. Guys have big salaries followed by small salaries all of the time in the NFL.

And now the d*ckhead has apologized and wants to play. Maybe he should have been a man in the first place.

[Leebo33]

How did he try to destroy the team?

The next time you are in a team environment show up to work and fail to talk to members of the team, mouth off and disrespect your bosses or team leaders, and call your organization classless. Let me know how that changes your team's chemistry performance regardless of your own job performance.

When I'm at work and there are distractions and people aren't getting along then that becomes the focus. People aren't focusing on the task at hand...they are focusing on the distractions. I'm not saying everyone has to be best friends, but people need to at least need to be civil to be productive.

[pk500]

And now the d*ckhead has apologized and wants to play. Maybe he should have been a man in the first place.

That apology was about as sincere as Tupperware. As I watched TO and Rosenhaus, the only image was that of a puppeteer and a marionette.

I hope TO has Sunday Ticket at his house and can sit back and see every play that he's missing. If only he kept his mouth shut ...

Oh, but it's The Man who's keeping TO down. That's right, it's The Man.

Seriously, this is one of greatest acts of hiri-kiri in recent sports memory. Classic.

Take care,
PK

[bdoughty]

From yesterday some classic stuff.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercuryn ... 107699.htm

It was Mike Wise, the fine sports columnist from the Washington Post (and, notably, the one Post columnist without an ESPN contract) who put it best. Wise wondered in print when ESPN became "Al-Jazeera for spoiled athletes."

Terrell Owens is a selfish jerk.

ESPN specializes in selfish jerkosity.

And this is where the ESPN factor comes in. Michael Irvin is to journalism what Liberace was to quantum physics, and he had served as Owens' on-air confessor. Graham Bensinger, once he needs to shave, may turn out to be the second coming of Edward R. Murrow, or even Howard Cosell, but for now? He's a kid that Owens figured would lob a few softballs his way.

[Jackdog]

I hope TO has Sunday Ticket at his house and can sit back and see every play that he's missing.

He'll be watching in his vintage Michael Irvin jersey tossing off to his bitches rants on NFL Countdown.

[seanmac31]

I don't blame players for holding out or trying to get as much money as possible. It's the whole concept of trying to destroy the team when you don't get your way that bothers me.

How did he try to destroy the team? By saying unpleasant things? Or did he try to poison his teammates or injure them or somehow prevent them from being able to perform?

The reason the Eagles are underperforming has nothing to do with this one player. In fact, they are playing poorly in spite of his very high level of production.

These players and coaches are in the glare of the media spotlight. They better develop a thick skin. Philly is suppose to be an unmerciful town too.

Yeah he shouldn't have called out McNabb in public. But McNabb better not blame his performance on being called out either. When the Broncos blitzed 9 at him, they were kind of calling McNabb out too.

Talk about lack of respect.

Well said.

[wco81]

How did he try to destroy the team?

The next time you are in a team environment show up to work and fail to talk to members of the team, mouth off and disrespect your bosses or team leaders, and call your organization classless. Let me know how that changes your team's chemistry performance regardless of your own job performance.

When I'm at work and there are distractions and people aren't getting along then that becomes the focus. People aren't focusing on the task at hand...they are focusing on the distractions. I'm not saying everyone has to be best friends, but people need to at least need to be civil to be productive.

So are you saying that's why the team has underperformed, because Terrell was so mean and distracting?

BTW, he's only down on McNabb and Reed and management. For all we know, he still has good relations with most of the other members of the team.

After the blowup he had with the 49ers, he came back last year during his bye week and a lot of players came out to hang with him outside their training facility.

[Leebo33]

BTW, he's only down on McNabb and Reed and management. For all we know, he still has good relations with most of the other members of the team.

"I alienated a lot of my fans and my teammates"

- Terrell Owens 11/8/05