RED SOX BROTHERS....THEO GONE? WTF?

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:27 am

Theo is gone..turned down the 3 year deal!

what the hell?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2209574

HouOilers · Post by **HouOilers** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:30 am

dodgers

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:23 am

HouOilers wrote:dodgers

Thinking the same thing.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:03 am

This is a story which needs to be looked at in depth. Dan Shaunessy of the Boston Globe wrote a scandalous report on Theo on Sunday. It should be noted that the New York Times Company which owns the Globe owns 17 percent of the Red Sox. This report said it was Theo's fault that the three team trade between the Red Sox, Rockies, and Orioles for Eric Byrnes and a few others fell apart.

Here is the link to the article I referenced which includes a great comment from the dipshit saying that Theo does not know too much baseball. I think this was the straw that broke Theo's back. How do we know Manny wants to be traded? The Red Sox have leaked the info. The Red Sox have become an organization full of hypocrites who just want to make themselves look good. The Nomar situation in calling him injured, saying Pedro's shoulder was 90% torn...etc...

The link is here

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:01 am

I am working overtime saying prayers in front of my Jack Brickhouse bobble-head doll that the Cubs go out and get either DePo or Theo. Magic Eight Ball says not likely, but a boy can dream, can't he?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:53 am

Trust me, you do not want DePodesta...that guy took a nice team (a divsion winner) and blew it up. Then promptly went on to finish 20 games under .500 and in 4th place in arguably the worst division in the history of sports. That guy is getting reemed in all of the LA papers and rightly so. Just because he spends a crapload of money doesn't mean he's a good GM...

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:19 am

The best GM in/out of baseball is Gerry Hunsicker. Astros have been one of the best teams of the last decade despite not having the payroll of the big boys in baseball. He knows how to put together a good team without spending a crapload of money. He left Houston due to too much interfering from the owner. The man is a tremendous GM.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:37 am

F308GTB wrote:The best GM in/out of baseball is Gerry Hunsicker. Astros have been one of the best teams of the last decade despite not having the payroll of the big boys in baseball. He knows how to put together a good team without spending a crapload of money. He left Houston due to too much interfering from the owner. The man is a tremendous GM.

Both Hunsicker and Pat Gillick are on the Phillies short list right now....with Gillick supposedly having the edge. Anything will be better than Ed Wade.

James_E · Post by **James_E** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:40 am

I'm not a big baseball guy at all. But the folks on talk radio here last night were theorizing, kind of "way out there" stuff like:

Theo to Philly

JP Richardi (GM of Jays is offered and JUMPS at chance to go GM the Red Sox.. he's a Boston boy at heart.)

Gillick is offered a return to GM the Jays. He still maintains a home here in Toronto

Just throwing it out there... like I said I'm no baseball guy, just heard this on the radio.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:54 am

F308GTB wrote:The best GM in/out of baseball is Gerry Hunsicker. Astros have been one of the best teams of the last decade despite not having the payroll of the big boys in baseball. He knows how to put together a good team without spending a crapload of money. He left Houston due to too much interfering from the owner. The man is a tremendous GM.

Disagree. Walt Jocketty is the best GM in baseball. Of course, I'm biased.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:19 am

I think the guy down in Atlanta is pretty good.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:28 am

There's just something peculiar about hearing Peter Gammons call anybody a "rock star".

Anyways, yes, I'm biased, and no, he's not a rock star, but I think Mark Shapiro at least deserves a mention in a thread like this.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:36 am

Depending on how he does this off-season, I'll throw Terry Ryan's name into the mix. Not the best drafter in the league, but he puts together some damn good trades.

James - I think the rumored chain of events you mentioned makes a lot of sense. Doesn't mean it will happen, but it is a very logical rumor. The Jays could be a tough team the next few years, aren't they talking about adding quite a bit of payroll flexibility.

James_E · Post by **James_E** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:55 am

Dave wrote:Depending on how he does this off-season, I'll throw Terry Ryan's name into the mix. Not the best drafter in the league, but he puts together some damn good trades.

James - I think the rumored chain of events you mentioned makes a lot of sense. Doesn't mean it will happen, but it is a very logical rumor. The Jays could be a tough team the next few years, aren't they talking about adding quite a bit of payroll flexibility.

Ted Rogers told them they are allowed to spend 200 million on payroll over the next 3 years. That puts them in the same ballpark as the White Sox doesn't it?

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:05 am

I think the Sox were in the mid-$60 to $70 mil range this year, but as a Twins fan, I'm worried about their payroll. For a big market team, they've never really broken the bank. Now will they push that up closer to $85-100 mil?

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:10 pm

I was going to mention Shapiro and Schuerholz as well. I'd throw Billy Beane into the mix too.

And I know this will get ripped, but I think Cashman is very good GM as well. Just because you have money to play with doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing.

I'm actually surprised that Epstein is gone and Cashman stayed with the Yanks.

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:15 pm

Dave wrote:I think the Sox were in the mid-$60 to $70 mil range this year, but as a Twins fan, I'm worried about their payroll. For a big market team, they've never really broken the bank. Now will they push that up closer to $85-100 mil?

The Sox were at around $75 million this year. I can't imagine Reinsdorf adding $15-25 million more to the payroll, especially since they got their ring.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:18 pm

tsunami wrote:And I know this will get ripped, but I think Cashman is very good GM as well. Just because you have money to play with doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing.

Which is exactly why Cashman shouldn't even come CLOSE to being mentioned in the "best GM in the league" discussion. He's got virtually no restrictions and he hasn't put a championship team on the field in years. Why is that? He doesn't know what he's doing. You can buy an all-star team, but it takes a good GM to build a team with restrictions and payroll limitations. Cashman is just throwing money at the hot commodities (Jaret Wright, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Karl Pavano, etc.). Now, notice that they are all pitchers...and what has been their downfall in the past 5 years? Pitching. Something is wrong there...and it's the GM taking chances on these guys.

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:24 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Trust me, you do not want DePodesta...that guy took a nice team (a divsion winner) and blew it up. Then promptly went on to finish 20 games under .500 and in 4th place in arguably the worst division in the history of sports. That guy is getting reemed in all of the LA papers and rightly so. Just because he spends a crapload of money doesn't mean he's a good GM...

From what I heard about Depodesta is that he doesn't communicate with anyone. He seemingly stays behind closed doors and just pours over stats. He is a direct disciple of Billy Beane and used to do all the "number crunching" for him in Oakland. Apparently, he is better suited to that and not being the face of an organization.

Also, Tommy Lasorda definitely has the ear of the McCourts and is pushing for Bobby Valentine to manage the Dodgers.

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:31 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Which is exactly why Cashman shouldn't even come CLOSE to being mentioned in the "best GM in the league" discussion. He's got virtually no restrictions and he hasn't put a championship team on the field in years.

It's amazing that 5 years without a World Series win (but being in 2) is considered a failure. And that is a perfect example of what the pressure of being a GM in NY is like. Anything short of a World Series is a failure.

dbdynsty25 wrote:Why is that? He doesn't know what he's doing. You can buy an all-star team, but it takes a good GM to build a team with restrictions and payroll limitations. Cashman is just throwing money at the hot commodities (Jaret Wright, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Karl Pavano, etc.). Now, notice that they are all pitchers...and what has been their downfall in the past 5 years? Pitching. Something is wrong there...and it's the GM taking chances on these guys.

Did he know what he was doing when the Yankees were winning 3 out of 4 World Series from 1997-200 under him? Or, did he suddenly forget? Or was it only money that did it?

John Schuerholz must not know what he is doing either. Damn...he's only produced 1 World Series team in the last 15 years and Atlanta has regularly been in the upper 1/3 of payroll among baseball.

I think you are over emphasizing money here...there are a lot of teams who spend money and don't have near the track record the Yankees have had under Cashman. Also, he has had to deal with the ridiculous structure the Yankees have setup with the two contigencies in NY and Tampa, not to mention an overbearing boss who undercuts him constantly. He does not make all the calls on every signing, and certainly doesn't agree with every one. But, as a GM, he is a face for the team and does his job. If a certain move fails, Steinbrenner will never take the blame, that's for sure.

Considering the environment he works in, the pressure to succeed, and the results he has attained, I think he has done a really good job. It's not only the deals you make or players you sign that make the difference. I would be interested to see how "the best GMs in the league" would do in this scenario. My guess is most of them would never work in NY to start with or would be chewed up and spit out in less than 2 years. They have no idea what pressure is.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:31 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
tsunami wrote:And I know this will get ripped, but I think Cashman is very good GM as well. Just because you have money to play with doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing.
Which is exactly why Cashman shouldn't even come CLOSE to being mentioned in the "best GM in the league" discussion. He's got virtually no restrictions and he hasn't put a championship team on the field in years. Why is that? He doesn't know what he's doing. You can buy an all-star team, but it takes a good GM to build a team with restrictions and payroll limitations. Cashman is just throwing money at the hot commodities (Jaret Wright, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Karl Pavano, etc.). Now, notice that they are all pitchers...and what has been their downfall in the past 5 years? Pitching. Something is wrong there...and it's the GM taking chances on these guys.

How about the minor league system being in shabbles for the Bronx Bombers?

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:32 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Which is exactly why Cashman shouldn't even come CLOSE to being mentioned in the "best GM in the league" discussion. He's got virtually no restrictions and he hasn't put a championship team on the field in years. Why is that? He doesn't know what he's doing. You can buy an all-star team, but it takes a good GM to build a team with restrictions and payroll limitations. Cashman is just throwing money at the hot commodities (Jaret Wright, Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Karl Pavano, etc.). Now, notice that they are all pitchers...and what has been their downfall in the past 5 years? Pitching. Something is wrong there...and it's the GM taking chances on these guys.

It is deeply, deeply unfair to judge a GM by a team's post-season performance. There are a few things that a GM can do which might help, but it's the 162 game season that remains the only true measure of a team, and by extension a GM. He's put a championship-caliber team on the field every year.

Pitching's been their "downfall"? They haven't won fewer than 95 games since 2000!! And before you scream payroll, look at the town you live in, the Cubs, the Mets etc.

It's also more than a little ironic that a Braves fan would criticize a team for not getting it done in the playoffs

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:42 pm

Zlax45 wrote: How about the minor league system being in shabbles for the Bronx Bombers?

It's in "shabbles" because they trade all their prospects for veteran players. But, they had the prospects that other teams wanted in the first place.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:44 pm

RobVarak wrote:It's also more than a little ironic that a Braves fan would criticize a team for not getting it done in the playoffs

Did you see me mention Scheurholz anywhere? Didn't think so. Postseason performance is a HUGE deal in my book when it comes to a GM's ultimate success rate. John hasn't gotten it done. Granted, his payroll is reduced by 15% every year and getting to the playoffs for the Braves is actually a good thing. But you can have all of the regular season victories in the world but it doesn't mean crap if you don't get it done in October, and the Braves haven't since '95.

And if you're saying the 162 game season is the biggest factor in the GM's success rate then Scheurholz is a god.

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:45 pm

RobVarak wrote: It is deeply, deeply unfair to judge a GM by a team's post-season performance. There are a few things that a GM can do which might help, but it's the 162 game season that remains the only true measure of a team, and by extension a GM. He's put a championship-caliber team on the field every year.

Pitching's been their "downfall"? They haven't won fewer than 95 games since 2000!! And before you scream payroll, look at the town you live in, the Cubs, the Mets etc.

It's also more than a little ironic that a Braves fan would criticize a team for not getting it done in the playoffs

Exactly! And where has Atlanta's pitching gotten them in the postseason? How many titles did the Smoltz-Maddox-Glavine juggernaut bring them?