MLB Playoffs

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:06 pm

Pac Bell is 309 down the right field line, as well.

There have been some far more unusual parks throughout history. At the Polo Grounds, LF was 277, RF was 258, and CF was 455. Ebbets was 419 to left, 450 to center, and 301 to right.

And I'd say that the Astros are in the playoffs because of their pitching (#1, #2, and #7 in ERA), not because of cheap home runs (9th of 16 in the NL). If you watched the Astros all year, you would know how many HRs the long center-field and left-center field fences have taken away from Ensberg, Lane, Berkman and Lamb.

catskinsox · Post by **catskinsox** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:12 pm

sportdan30 wrote:
matthewk wrote:How many triples are a result of hits into left field? Not many. Most are hit into the RF corner (far away from 3rd) or in the alleys. Minute Maid has a pretty deep center field. I think that and the hill increase the chance for triples.

Cards fans have just been stuck in their "bowl" for so long they can't fathom the idea of anything original
I may be wrong, but I think the new Busch Stadium is going to have smaller dimensions.

At least, it's going to look kick a$$! LOL.

Yeah, but you'll still be watching the Cardinals.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:18 pm

Last year was the first time I really had to watch two games (Sox sweep!!!) from Busch and that stadium is SO BORING. At least the Metrodome has some flavor in it. The only two stadiums I think that is as boring as Busch are SkyDome and the Trop.

catskinsox · Post by **catskinsox** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:20 pm

MizzouRah wrote:Exactly. I don't think the gripe of Minute Maid is down the lines, but left center is the same short 315.

Like it or not, the ballpark is a farce and the only thing you have to do to get around the "regulations" when building a ballpark is to petition MLB and that joke of a commissioner.

Kind of like the farce that allowed the Cardinals to petition MLB to get the Co-Champion label (and thus, the banner hanging in your "real" ballpark) the year the Astros beat them on the last game of the season to win the division by tie-breaker rules? Or excuse me, 'regulations?'

That kind of farce?

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:46 pm

What about the farce that Minute Maid purposely closes the roof when Clemens is on the mound? He's an f'n hall of fame pitcher! Does he really need more of an advantage? Give me a f'n break! It could could 80 and sunny outside, but nope...gotta close the roof because heaven forbid there's a slight wind that gives the visitors an advantage of hitting a homerun off their precious star.

catskinsox · Post by **catskinsox** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:59 pm

sportdan30 wrote:What about the farce that Minute Maid purposely closes the roof when Clemens is on the mound? He's an f'n hall of fame pitcher! Does he really need more of an advantage? Give me a f'n break! It could could 80 and sunny outside, but nope...gotta close the roof because heaven forbid there's a slight wind that gives the visitors an advantage of hitting a homerun off their precious star.

Ok, what about the farce when Larussa two years ago had a game called in St. Louis due to rain, 2 hours prior to the start of the game, when it never rained? The only reason he did it was because they had already lost the first two games of the series to Houston with Roy Oswalt due to pitch the 3rd game, and Pooholes and Edmonds were both hurt. He just couldn't take the idea of getting swept.

He's an f'n hall of fame manager, right? Gotta call the game, cause heaven forbid it's a bit misty outside!!! Can't actually try to do his job and manage the team he has available!!!

And btw, again, somehow you seem like the ballpark is only advantageous for the home team. They don't move the fences in or out or open and close the roof based on who's up to bat.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:03 pm

May the force be with us tonight.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:07 pm

Zlax45 wrote:Last year was the first time I really had to watch two games (Sox sweep!!!) from Busch and that stadium is SO BORING. At least the Metrodome has some flavor in it. The only two stadiums I think that is as boring as Busch are SkyDome and the Trop.

So boring that you might actually watch a baseball game instead of watching goofy lights and noises coming from the speakers or a train coming down the tracks.

catskinsox · Post by **catskinsox** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:07 pm

MizzouRah wrote:May the force be with us tonight.

Well, since Cards fans have blamed everything from bad umpiring to ballparks that magically only have a short porch for the home team for being down 3-2, it doesn't surprise me that you're calling on the powers of a fictional "hokey religion" to pull you through.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:09 pm

catskinsox wrote:
MizzouRah wrote:May the force be with us tonight.
Well, since Cards fans have blamed everything from bad umpiring to ballparks that magically only have a short porch for the home team for being down 3-2, it doesn't surprise me that you're calling on the powers of a fictional "hokey religion" to pull you through.

I'm not blaming a loss on a short porch, I'm just stating that baseball park is a joke, period.. nothing more, nothing less - it's a JOKE!

Both teams play there, but it's still a joke of a park. It caters to the rich and to the notion that fans love homeruns.

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:09 pm

The farce is the wild card. Without it, the Cards and Astros would have played one more game to see who won the division. That's why LaRussa and Jocketty wanted the distinction. It's not a big deal either way. Neither team won the pennant.

My only complaints were things that actually affect gameplay, like the short porch in LF. I don't care if there is a choo-choo train, swimming pool, or anything else. The stadium should represent the flavor of the community, and it is up to the designers to figure that out.

The dimensions for the new stadium in St. Louis will be:

Left Field — 335 feet
Left Center Field — 390 feet
Center Field — 400 feet
Right Center Field — 390 feet
Right Field — 336 feet

Cardinal fans have been adamant that they do not want a stadium that features any cheap home runs, and their wishes seemed to have been granted. Left center in MM, just 315, is seventy-five feet shorter than the new Busch. Call it what you want, it's a joke.

It's not a factor in who wins or loses. It's a factor in whether you enjoy Slow Pitch Softball or Hardball. Both teams play on the same field, and the Redbirds' record in MM this season is 6-5 so far. Berkman's cheap HR didn't beat the Cards.

The whiners can try to change the subject all they want. This isn't about the aesthetic of the stadium, this isn't about an advantage. The Mastercard joke was just poking fun at the contrast of each team's "game-winning shots". Berkman's would not have existed in most stadiums, while Pujols' was a jaw-dropping slam that will go down in the history books.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:22 pm

Jayhawker wrote:Pujols' was a jaw-dropping slam that will go down in the history books.

That HR is a little more than an afterthought outside of St. Louis unless the Cardinals win the World Series. I think it was a great HR from a clutch player, but it's place in history will only be decided after this postseason. It could turn out to just be a HR that made a 5 game series 6 games.

Quick...name your 5 favorite clutch HR from teams losing an NLCS (not saying they will lose)? Hard to do, isn't it?

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:23 pm

Wake up!!

Sports today cater to fans getting closer to the action and having more luxury boxes for the rich peeps and seeing more offense. Short porches=More Homeruns.

catskinsox · Post by **catskinsox** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:24 pm

Jayhawker wrote:The farce is the wild card. Without it, the Cards and Astros would have played one more game to see who won the division. That's why LaRussa and Jocketty wanted the distinction. It's not a big deal either way. Neither team won the pennant.

My only complaints were things that actually affect gameplay, like the short porch in LF. I don't care if there is a choo-choo train, swimming pool, or anything else. The stadium should represent the flavor of the community, and it is up to the designers to figure that out.

The dimensions for the new stadium in St. Louis will be:

Left Field — 335 feet
Left Center Field — 390 feet
Center Field — 400 feet
Right Center Field — 390 feet
Right Field — 336 feet

Cardinal fans have been adamant that they do not want a stadium that features any cheap home runs, and their wishes seemed to have been granted. Left center in MM, just 315, is seventy-five feet shorter than the new Busch. Call it what you want, it's a joke.

It's not a factor in who wins or loses. It's a factor in whether you enjoy Slow Pitch Softball or Hardball. Both teams play on the same field, and the Redbirds' record in MM this season is 6-5 so far. Berkman's cheap HR didn't beat the Cards.

The whiners can try to change the subject all they want. This isn't about the aesthetic of the stadium, this isn't about an advantage. The Mastercard joke was just poking fun at the contrast of each team's "game-winning shots". Berkman's would not have existed in most stadiums, while Pujols' was a jaw-dropping slam that will go down in the history books.

Funny, I was just told on another site that the run differential from Cardinals home games versus their road games is higher than the differential between Astros home games and road games. If the park is a joke, and was full of cheap home runs, this wouldn't be true, would it?

Baseball is baseball.. whereever it's played. Do I want the crawford boxes? not really, actually, but they're there, and all the whining and complaining won't change that. Get over it. This argument only seems to come up after a team has lost there.

and by the way, the end of the crawford boxes do not represent left center, left center is about 360+ feet with a 21 foot wall. but don't let facts get in the way of your obsession with them.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:26 pm

Zlax45 wrote:Wake up!!

Sports today cater to fans getting closer to the action and having more luxury boxes for the rich peeps and seeing more offense. Short porches=More Homeruns.

I am awake.. our new stadium will not have any of that.. except for the luxury boxes.

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:33 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:Pujols' was a jaw-dropping slam that will go down in the history books.
That HR is a little more than an afterthought outside of St. Louis unless the Cardinals win the World Series. I think it was a great HR from a clutch player, but it's place in history will only be decided after this postseason. It could turn out to just be a HR that made a 5 game series 6 games.

Quick...name your 5 favorite clutch HR from teams losing an NLCS (not saying they will lose)? Hard to do, isn't it?

Honestly, I think you are wrong about this one. If nothing else, the Astros will be remembered for overcoming this slam. Hell, we have already seen refernces to Donnie Moore in the media, and even here by an Astros fan. Like it or not, even if the Astros win this, it will still be talked about in the contest of overcoming that blow by Pujols.

Who gave it up, the timing, and the spectacular fashion in which it went out has made it a moment that will be replayed for decades. Had it not happened, only Houston and Cardinal fans would remember Berkman's shot.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:35 pm

Why do you guys keep referring to Pujols' homer as a "slam" when it was only a three run homer?

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:38 pm

catskinsox wrote:
Jayhawker wrote: It's not a factor in who wins or loses. It's a factor in whether you enjoy Slow Pitch Softball or Hardball. Both teams play on the same field, and the Redbirds' record in MM this season is 6-5 so far. Berkman's cheap HR didn't beat the Cards.

The whiners can try to change the subject all they want. This isn't about the aesthetic of the stadium, this isn't about an advantage. The Mastercard joke was just poking fun at the contrast of each team's "game-winning shots". Berkman's would not have existed in most stadiums, while Pujols' was a jaw-dropping slam that will go down in the history books.
Funny, I was just told on another site that the run differential from Cardinals home games versus their road games is higher than the differential between Astros home games and road games. If the park is a joke, and was full of cheap home runs, this wouldn't be true, would it?

This is exactly why I said happy, but stupid fans. Your reading comprehension is lacking.

Next we will see a team put in soccer size goals for their hockey teams. Sure, both teams will get the advantage, but it would be a pretty ridiculous game. But more goals equal more fans!

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:40 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Why do you guys keep referring to Pujols' homer as a "slam" when it was only a three run homer?

Um, slam is appropriate. Grand slam would be the term for a bases loaded home run.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:41 pm

Jayhawker wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:Why do you guys keep referring to Pujols' homer as a "slam" when it was only a three run homer?
Um, slam is appropriate. Grand slam would be the term for a bases loaded home run.

No, not really appropriate. Slam is short for Grand Slam...so it's pretty much wrong.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:41 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:Pujols' was a jaw-dropping slam that will go down in the history books.
That HR is a little more than an afterthought outside of St. Louis unless the Cardinals win the World Series. I think it was a great HR from a clutch player, but it's place in history will only be decided after this postseason. It could turn out to just be a HR that made a 5 game series 6 games.

Quick...name your 5 favorite clutch HR from teams losing an NLCS (not saying they will lose)? Hard to do, isn't it?

And in the stat book, they are both homeruns.

Unless you actually switch stadiums between at-bats, there is no real advantage to outfield dimensions, especially with a short left-field fence. Even with someone like Bonds, who thrives even more with the short Pac Bell right field line, will still do well because most RF fences are fairly short.

BTW, I think we've found the Midwestern version of Parker. f*** the Cardinals, even if they do win the NLCS, they're going to get mugged by the Ligue clan.

catskinsox · Post by **catskinsox** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:43 pm

Jayhawker wrote:
Leebo33 wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:Pujols' was a jaw-dropping slam that will go down in the history books.
That HR is a little more than an afterthought outside of St. Louis unless the Cardinals win the World Series. I think it was a great HR from a clutch player, but it's place in history will only be decided after this postseason. It could turn out to just be a HR that made a 5 game series 6 games.

Quick...name your 5 favorite clutch HR from teams losing an NLCS (not saying they will lose)? Hard to do, isn't it?
Honestly, I think you are wriong about this one. If nothing else, the Astros will be remembered for overcoming this slam. Hell, we have already seen refernces to Donnie Moore in the media, and even here by an Astros fan. Like it or not, even if the Astros win this, it will still be talked about in the contest of overcoming that blow by Pujols.

Who gave it up, the timing, and the spectacular fashion in which it went out has made it a moment that will be replayed for decades. Had it not happened, only Houston and Cardinal fans would remember Berkman's shot.

Overcoming? You know, we're still up 3-2 with Oswalt and Clemens due to pitch. We were *up* 3-2 after Kent's "walk-off" (god, I hate that term) HR in game 4 last year. I don't think anyone talks about how the Cardinals "overcame" that shot.. "slam" whatever...

replayed for decades...sheesh..

but I agree with Leebo on this. It will be remembered *IF* the Cards come back and when the whole thing. Otherwise, who really gives a rat's ass?

Oh yeah, and nice of you to call Berkman's a "shot" instead of a "weak nubber to the crawford boxes." Progress...

catskinsox · Post by **catskinsox** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:50 pm

Jayhawker wrote:
catskinsox wrote:
Jayhawker wrote: It's not a factor in who wins or loses. It's a factor in whether you enjoy Slow Pitch Softball or Hardball. Both teams play on the same field, and the Redbirds' record in MM this season is 6-5 so far. Berkman's cheap HR didn't beat the Cards.

The whiners can try to change the subject all they want. This isn't about the aesthetic of the stadium, this isn't about an advantage. The Mastercard joke was just poking fun at the contrast of each team's "game-winning shots". Berkman's would not have existed in most stadiums, while Pujols' was a jaw-dropping slam that will go down in the history books.
Funny, I was just told on another site that the run differential from Cardinals home games versus their road games is higher than the differential between Astros home games and road games. If the park is a joke, and was full of cheap home runs, this wouldn't be true, would it?
This is exactly why I said happy, but stupid fans. Your reading comprehension is lacking.

Next we will see a team put in soccer size goals for their hockey teams. Sure, both teams will get the advantage, but it would be a pretty ridiculous game. But more goals equal more fans!

I guess I *must* have some reading comprehension problems, since I have no idea how a home run statistic that says the park is in no way more run-producing than your beloved shrine has anything to do with stupid, happy fans. Enlighten me please, oh great one. Maybe it's your ability to form a good argument that's the problem here.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:54 pm

[quote="Brando70] BTW, I think we've found the Midwestern version of Parker. f*** the Cardinals, even if they do win the NLCS, they're going to get mugged by the Ligue clan.[/quote]

Now, that's the kind of hatred I like to read from a Cubs fan.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:59 pm

All this bickering, and I'll still root for the Astros if they beat the Cards in the series. This year's version of the bandwagon fans clearly goes to the White Sox. In the three years I lived in Chicago ('96 to '99), they rarely drew over 20,000 fans a game. Now, all of a sudden they're in the playoffs and World Series and there's avid White Sox fans everywhere......riiiiiiiiiiiiight.