MLB Playoffs

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:34 am

ScoopBrady wrote:Man, I never realized how similar Chicago baseball fans and Astros fans are. After having your heart ripped out so many times you start to expect the worst. You put up walls and dare not believe anything good will happen to make sure the pain isn't as bad when it inevitably does. Anyone remember a post I made during the final stretch of the season when the Sox were clinging to a 2 1/2 game lead? Keep the faith Astros fans. Dreams can come true.

Well said, but you start to wonder if it is ever meant to be. If it is, it will happen in one of the next two games. If it is not, then it was meant to be that the Cardinals advance. Seriously, who gave Houston a chance in hell in this series before it started and especially after Game 1?

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:35 am

MizzouRah wrote:
Leebo33 wrote:
MizzouRah wrote: Here you go again with your gibberish.
What gibberish? Do you seriously doubt that Phil Cuzzi's life would not be threatened should the Cards lose? I'm basing it on past history. There is at least one Cardinals fan that still sends Denkinger a daily postcard and some of the mail he received was way over the line...threatening a man's kids over a bad call
I was talking about. "Did you really expect anything different?"

I'll stand by the statement. Do you need some links or past quotes from Cardinals fans on the board? I'm not implying that you aren't a bunch of wonderful people, but winning with class and dignity would not be something I would expect based on post history from many fans here (not all).

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:43 am

Leebo33 wrote:
MizzouRah wrote:
Leebo33 wrote: What gibberish? Do you seriously doubt that Phil Cuzzi's life would not be threatened should the Cards lose? I'm basing it on past history. There is at least one Cardinals fan that still sends Denkinger a daily postcard and some of the mail he received was way over the line...threatening a man's kids over a bad call
I was talking about. "Did you really expect anything different?"
I'll stand by the statement. Do you need some links or past quotes from Cardinals fans on the board? I'm not implying that you aren't a bunch of wonderful people, but winning with class and dignity would not be something I would expect based on post history from many fans here (not all).

C'mon Leebo, what fans aren't a bit over zealous for their respective team? I'm definitly not a roll model fan as my emotions get in the way, but this is a baseball town and we are a confident bunch when it comes to baseball.. hockey is another story.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:54 am

Who gave the Astros a chance to win the series? The majority of the media did. The majority of the people on this very forum. The Astros aren't some team that lucked in to the playoffs. They played better baseball than the Cards the second half of the season.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:00 pm

Fair enough. I would never root against the Cardinals (or BC for that matter...LOL) if it weren't for comments posted here. I'm sure there are groups of fans that you feel the same way about. Nothing personal though.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:01 pm

Leebo33 wrote:Fair enough. I would never root against the Cardinals (or BC for that matter...LOL) if it weren't for comments posted here. I'm sure there are groups of fans that you feel the same way about. Nothing personal though.

LOL...fa sho.

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:05 pm

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:54 pm

I truly do not understand the "real" or "joke" ballbark comments. Minute Maid isn't my favorite ballpark in MLB, but I find it amusing that fans of a team with one of the original "cookie cutter" ballparks would rip on it.

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:20 am

Leebo33 wrote:I truly do not understand the "real" or "joke" ballbark comments. Minute Maid isn't my favorite ballpark in MLB, but I find it amusing that fans of a team with one of the original "cookie cutter" ballparks would rip on it.

315 down the line is a joke, and ten feet shorter than MLB regulations.

Yeah, that means PNC is a frickin' joke, too. Do they let little league teams rent it out or something? In Bud we trust. Short fences mean happy fans. Stupid, but happy.

Clear things up, grumpy?

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:46 am

Jayhawker wrote:Clear things up, grumpy?

Yes, it does, Dopey.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:49 am

Anyone just waiting for this thread to get locked?

As a Brewers fan, I don't have any stake in either the Cards or Astros winning. They are both division rivals, so watching the two fan bases claw each others eyes out is the most entertaining part of this whole series.

I like Minute Maid park. I also love the park in San Fran (Is that PNC?). I am happy to see new parks go up that have some character. I hate sterile stadiums like the metrodome, they are boring. I also don't get why all the hate just because the left field wall is in closer than you'd like. It makes it all the more impressive that Houston had 3 pitchers with an ERA under 3.00 for the season.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:56 am

OK, I got bored and looked up the dimensions of various parks. here are some comparisons at http://baseballguru.com/joemock/ballparkchart.htm

Staduim LF CF RF
Minute Maid: 315 425 326
County Stadium: 315 402 315
Tropicana: 315 407 322
Polo Grounds: 280 480 258
Jacobs Field: 325 405 325
Yankee Stadium: 318 408 314

I don't hear anyone complaining about Yankee Stadium or Jacobs Field being "jokes".

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:58 am

matthewk wrote:I like Minute Maid park. I also love the park in San Fran (Is that PNC?). I am happy to see new parks go up that have some character. I hate sterile stadiums like the metrodome, they are boring. I also don't get why all the hate just because the left field wall is in closer than you'd like. It makes it all the more impressive that Houston had 3 pitchers with an ERA under 3.00 for the season.

Yeah, I don't understand it either. I would much prefer Minute Maid to the current remaining cookie-cutter stadium despite the Little League left field. The mound in center field is stupid though.

The new Busch stadium looks awesome though.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:14 am

Jayhawker wrote:http://homepage.mac.com/tmyoung68/pujolsMastercard.jpg

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:15 am

matthewk wrote:I hate sterile stadiums like the metrodome, they are boring.

Matt, thanks for complimenting the Metrodome. Sterile is the least of the worries at the Metrodome. Dump is more like it.

Does that site have measurements to the power alleys?

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:27 am

Exactly. I don't think the gripe of Minute Maid is down the lines, but left center is the same short 315.

Like it or not, the ballpark is a farce and the only thing you have to do to get around the "regulations" when building a ballpark is to petition MLB and that joke of a commissioner.

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:28 am

Leebo33 wrote:I truly do not understand the "real" or "joke" ballbark comments. Minute Maid isn't my favorite ballpark in MLB, but I find it amusing that fans of a team with one of the original "cookie cutter" ballparks would rip on it.

Busch stadium on the inside looks better than a lot of the new stadiums. They did alot to over the past decade. Minute Maid is a terrible park and it's the only reason the Astros got back into the wildcard race. Check out the Astros numbers at home and on the road. You'd be hard to find a team in baseball with more extreme numbers at home versus on the road.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:38 am

tjung0831 wrote:Minute Maid is a terrible park and it's the only reason the Astros got back into the wildcard race.

Huh?

The Astros were 34-24 on the road after bottoming out on May 24th at 15 games below .500.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:38 am

I don't think the left field porch in Houston's Orange Juice Park is that big of a deal. The dimensions aren't that much different than Tampa's Orange Juice Park, and left-center at Wrigley is shorter than left-center at Houston (Matt, thanks for that link, it's interesting). Plus, the close left field actually hinders offense on line drives because you can play balls off the wall quickly and get the ball to second faster than normal.

What I don't like are parks that look like Disneyland Stunt Show Spectacular sets. The stupid choo-choo, the Star Trek rocks at Anaheim, stuff that just looks completely out of place at an athletic stadium. I mean, the Cell is cold and impersonal and packed with mullets, but if you're not in the nosebleeds, it provides a good view of what's happening on the field.

The Beer Slide in Milwaukee, however, is perfect.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:38 am

tjung0831 wrote:
Busch stadium on the inside looks better than a lot of the new stadiums. They did alot to over the past decade. Minute Maid is a terrible park and it's the only reason the Astros got back into the wildcard race. Check out the Astros numbers at home and on the road. You'd be hard to find a team in baseball with more extreme numbers at home versus on the road.

Yeah, I guess their 15-30 start was due to the "Minute Maid factor"....

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:40 am

Dave wrote:Does that site have measurements to the power alleys?

The power alleys are listed as 362 and 373.

Oh, and the wall height in left is 21ft, which is second only to the green monster for active ballparks.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:15 pm

I think it all boils down to what we've grown accustomed to as a child and now as an adult. I for one can't fathom enjoying having my home team play in a park such as Minute Maid. Then again, anything is better than the Astrodome so maybe that's why the home fans like the new park so much. However, if I was an 8 year living in Houston, I'd most likely think Minute Maid is a fantastic ballpark. Not so as a 32 year old.

Yes, there are other ballparks that have short fences down the line and other obscurities that make that ballpark special. Ballparks like Wrigley Field, Fenway Park, Yankee Stadium were built way back when and are almost viewed upon as national monuments. It's when new ballparks are built and they purposely make the dimensions smaller so as to attract fans because they think the homerun ball is what excites people. Homeruns in these new ballparks are simply not big feats as they would be in a stadium such as Busch. In my opinion, there's nothing more exciting than seeing a triple. You almost eliminate these extra bases by having a small ballpark.

And to add to what Brando said, I agree about the ridiculous oddities that has been added to the new stadiums. I think the worst is the swimming pool in Arizona.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:37 pm

Dont both teams play with the same dimensions?

The Only real joke park is Fenway....WRECKING BALL!!!

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:40 pm

How many triples are a result of hits into left field? Not many. Most are hit into the RF corner (far away from 3rd) or in the alleys. Minute Maid has a pretty deep center field. I think that and the hill increase the chance for triples.

Cards fans have just been stuck in their "bowl" for so long they can't fathom the idea of anything original

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:43 pm

matthewk wrote:How many triples are a result of hits into left field? Not many. Most are hit into the RF corner (far away from 3rd) or in the alleys. Minute Maid has a pretty deep center field. I think that and the hill increase the chance for triples.

Cards fans have just been stuck in their "bowl" for so long they can't fathom the idea of anything original

I may be wrong, but I think the new Busch Stadium is going to have smaller dimensions.

At least, it's going to look kick a$$! LOL.