Check out these numbers from the new NHL...

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:16 pm

3 games played last night with a total of 14 goals in regulation....thats about 5 goals a game with the average score being about 4 to 1. In the three games played there was a total of 62 penalties called. At just two minutes a piece that would be 124 minutes of shorthanded hockey out of a possible 180 minutes of hockey played! While the penalties there are pretty extreme, i'm sure the calls will be toned down during the season. However if you're a hardcore NHL fan, get prepared because the game is definitely changing! I would imagine some of the NHL fans here aren't going to be happy with the new style of play. Also if you're team has a shitty powerplay...forget about it. They won't compete in the new NHL if they don't have a decent powerplay.

mobiggins · Post by **mobiggins** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:42 pm

I dunno. Six of those goals came in a 6-0 shutout by Carolina. The others were relatively low-scoring games: 2-1 and 3-2. I'm just playing devil's advocate here a little bit--I do think the game will be a little different, though.

hoserthehorrible · Post by **hoserthehorrible** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:55 pm

62 penalties doesn't necessarily mean 124 minutes of shorthanded hockey.

There's lots of situations where both teams get penalties and nobody plays shorthanded. Misconducts also don't result in a shorthanded situation either. Also, if a powerplay goal is scored then the typical 2 minute penalty ends early and the teams skate full strength again. Given all this, I don't believe that 124 of the 180 minutes of hockey played yesterday were shorthanded.

I do believe we'll see a lot of penalties early on in the year though IF the refs call the game the way they're suppose to. The players will figure it out and will make adjustments and the penalties will decrease in a few weeks or a month.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:25 pm

mobiggins wrote:I dunno. Six of those goals came in a 6-0 shutout by Carolina. The others were relatively low-scoring games: 2-1 and 3-2. I'm just playing devil's advocate here a little bit--I do think the game will be a little different, though.

Yeah, but not nearly as much as people think. Slicing one inch from goalie's pads and removing the center red line for offsides doesn't change the fact that you have 10 men at an average size of 6-1, 6-2, 210 playing on a sheet of ice 200 x 85, and everyone can skate.

That's a big change from 1985, when the average player's size was around 6-0, 192, -- I remember the annual player size analysis from the Hockey News in the mid-80s when I was a subscriber -- and not every player could skate like they can now.

The game will open up slightly. But will we see a return of 8-5 shootouts like in the early 80s on a regular basis? Nope. 3-2, 2-1, 4-2, 2-0 will still be the norm.

Put it this way: Edmonton's record of 446 goals in an 80-game season, set in 1983-84, isn't in any jeopardy. Unless there are RADICAL rule changes, that record stands with Ripken's consecutive game streak and DiMaggio's 56-game hitting streak as almost untouchable. Think about it -- the Oilers averaged 5.5 goals per game for the entire season. Unreal.

Take care,
PK

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:47 pm

pk500 wrote:Put it this way: Edmonton's record of 446 goals in an 80-game season, set in 1983-84, isn't in any jeopardy. Unless there are RADICAL rule changes, that record stands with Ripken's consecutive game streak and DiMaggio's 56-game hitting streak as almost untouchable. Think about it -- the Oilers averaged 5.5 goals per game for the entire season. Unreal.

And to put that season in perspective, consider that the *lowest* scoring team in the NHL in 1983-84 (also playing 2 less games) would have outscored 23 teams in 2003/2004.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:20 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
pk500 wrote:Put it this way: Edmonton's record of 446 goals in an 80-game season, set in 1983-84, isn't in any jeopardy. Unless there are RADICAL rule changes, that record stands with Ripken's consecutive game streak and DiMaggio's 56-game hitting streak as almost untouchable. Think about it -- the Oilers averaged 5.5 goals per game for the entire season. Unreal.
And to put that season in perspective, consider that the *lowest* scoring team in the NHL in 1983-84 (also playing 2 less games) would have outscored 23 teams in 2003/2004.

Wow. That's a good stat, Leebo. Nice research!

There was that kind of scoring in the NHL in 1983-84 without rules changes. Why? Smaller players, less clutching and grabbing, no neutral zone trap, and there was a big disparity between the skilled and non-skilled players, unlike today.

Take care,
PK

James_E · Post by **James_E** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:50 pm

pk500 wrote:
Leebo33 wrote:
pk500 wrote:Put it this way: Edmonton's record of 446 goals in an 80-game season, set in 1983-84, isn't in any jeopardy. Unless there are RADICAL rule changes, that record stands with Ripken's consecutive game streak and DiMaggio's 56-game hitting streak as almost untouchable. Think about it -- the Oilers averaged 5.5 goals per game for the entire season. Unreal.
And to put that season in perspective, consider that the *lowest* scoring team in the NHL in 1983-84 (also playing 2 less games) would have outscored 23 teams in 2003/2004.
Wow. That's a good stat, Leebo. Nice research!

There was that kind of scoring in the NHL in 1983-84 without rules changes. Why? Smaller players, less clutching and grabbing, no neutral zone trap, and there was a big disparity between the skilled and non-skilled players, unlike today.

Take care,
PK

Yeah, I think the disparity between skilled and non-skilled was bigger then,but I'm not sure by how much. I think by far the single biggest reason for lower scoring is the clutch and grab that's been allowed. I honestly think that we have not noticed how much disparity there is now BECAUSE the non-skilled players made up for it by clutching and grabbing.

I think that if you watch this year, you'll be surprised at just what the difference still is between the skilled and non-skilled. Those skilled players going at full speed without hooks and tackles by guys like Brian McCabe will show us all that the disparity is still there. It was just hidden by the ridiculous stuff the slower guys got away with all these years.

(You want to see how Brian McCabe does in a more open style of hockey? Check out his stats in the swedish elite league. He was going to be benched! YES! I HATE Brian McCabe and the type of play he represents.

Story about McCabe:

"McCabe decided enough was enough after his HV71 coach told him he was to be a healthy scratch for a game.
"I said to him, 'I've played 800 games in the NHL and if you think I'm going to sit on the bench and cheer for your team, you're sadly mistaken,'" McCabe told the Toronto Star, shortly after wetting himself.

Whoo! And who says NHLers aren't overpaid babies? What McCabe didn't tell the Star was that he was playing like excrement, to use a cheery euphemism for being -12 after 10 games. Perhaps Bryan figured going to the Swedish Elite League would be similar to the charity tours some of his mates are on."

mobiggins · Post by **mobiggins** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:58 pm

With no disrespect, as I am an ice hockey goalie myself, I would also add that there was a big disparity between the skilled and average forwards and the skilled or average goalies. Goalies were nowhere near as technically and athletically refined as they are today. Equipment was more for dulling the pain than for stopping pucks, flexibility, or vision, and many goalies didn't do too much to hone their skills save for play ping-pong in the off-season.
It's a whole different ball of wax now. Roy, Belfour, Brodeur, and the dominant 90's goalies brought a whole new mentality to the position.

James_E · Post by **James_E** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:24 pm

mobiggins wrote:With no disrespect, as I am an ice hockey goalie myself, I would also add that there was a big disparity between the skilled and average forwards and the skilled or average goalies. Goalies were nowhere near as technically and athletically refined as they are today. Equipment was more for dulling the pain than for stopping pucks, flexibility, or vision, and many goalies didn't do too much to hone their skills save for play ping-pong in the off-season.
It's a whole different ball of wax now. Roy, Belfour, Brodeur, and the dominant 90's goalies brought a whole new mentality to the position.

Agreed. The aforementioned goalies have great reflexes, but their uncanny ability to be in perfect position the majority of the time is unbelievable. They've got it down to a science. More pucks bounce of their chest and pads without them moving simply because they are in perfect position.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:35 pm

Goalies also are bigger these days, just like skaters. When Ken Dryden broke in with the Habs, everyone said how big he was. Now he'd be an average-sized goalie in the NHL.

Think of all the small guys who played goalie in the NHL in the 80s -- Darren Pang, Andy Moog, Billy Smith and Chico Resch come to mind. I'm sure there are many I'm forgetting.

Small guys back then compensated by having great quickness. Now the big guys are just as quick. Combine that with the obscene size of the goalie equipment with the same-sized goal as decades ago, and we have lower scoring.

Take care,
PK

mobiggins · Post by **mobiggins** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:11 pm

Yep. Small goalies are a dying breed. At 5'8, I could never compete in the NHL nowadays. I look at a guy my heighth like Arturs Irbe and have all the more respect for him for hanging on as long as he has (though he's probably gone from the NHL as of this year). Quickness just doesn't do it anymore.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:50 pm

I for one think that once the season starts, we'll be seeing more exciting open hockey only and only "IF" the zebras are consistent in calling the penalties. This goes from game 1 to 82, from the 1st playoff game to the Stanley Cup finals. On this aspect I admire the zebras from the NFL where they'll call "pass interference" even though it's a playoff finals game.

Consistency is the key. Players aren't allowed to interfere with the opposition in their zone if they don't have the puck - meaning you shouldn't be seeing a lot of meddling with players who are setting themselves up for a pass.

Once the player has the puck, any slashing, grabbing, yanking or other methods that involve removing the stick from the ice or using a free hand to obstruct the player should be called, while the player with the puck cannot use force to remove opponents out of the way.

Those scores last night were exhibitions games, let's not forget that, I think the Flames didn't even have the top 2 lines playing, while it was weird seeing C.Pronger on an Oilers jersey.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:58 pm

pk500 wrote:There was that kind of scoring in the NHL in 1983-84 without rules changes. Why? Smaller players, less clutching and grabbing, no neutral zone trap, and there was a big disparity between the skilled and non-skilled players, unlike today.

There were also 30% less teams in 1983-84. Expansion gave a lot of jobs to clutchers and grabbers. In 1990-91 the Penguins had Lemieux, Jagr, Stevens, Recchi, Francis, Coffey, Larry Murphy, Joe Mullen, and Bryan Trottier. Even the checking line/4th line players had skills...Bob Errey, Phil Bourque, Troy Loney, etc.

Man, I'm looking at the stats for the Oilers. The had a stretch at one point where they scored 7 or more goals in 10 of 11 games! They were shut out only once and only held to 1 goal 3 times. 6 games in double figures...LOL...cheesers.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:24 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
pk500 wrote:There was that kind of scoring in the NHL in 1983-84 without rules changes. Why? Smaller players, less clutching and grabbing, no neutral zone trap, and there was a big disparity between the skilled and non-skilled players, unlike today.
There were also 30% less teams in 1983-84. Expansion gave a lot of jobs to clutchers and grabbers. In 1990-91 the Penguins had Lemieux, Jagr, Stevens, Recchi, Francis, Coffey, Larry Murphy, Joe Mullen, and Bryan Trottier. Even the checking line/4th line players had skills...Bob Errey, Phil Bourque, Troy Loney, etc.

Man, I'm looking at the stats for the Oilers. The had a stretch at one point where they scored 7 or more goals in 10 of 11 games! They were shut out only once and only held to 1 goal 3 times. 6 games in double figures...LOL...cheesers.

Yeah, my Canucks often fell prey to the likes of: #99, Coffey, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Furr and a body guard called D. Semenko in the 80's. Which team dared to come close to that Oliers team? I can only think of the Islanders then, but you're right the league was smaller and more freewheeling going around.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:14 pm

I believe last year the league average was about 5.2 goals a game, so the scores from the other night were actually lower than last season. Granted, you can't read much into the inaugural night of preseason games because there are a lot of guys playing who won't be playing once the season starts.

That being said, the Flyer played the Thrashers this afternoon and won 8-6. Yes, 8-6. Whose gonna be more upset about that one, Hitchock for giving up 6 or Hartley for giving up 8? Preseason or not that's pretty eye-popping.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:19 am

Not to mention that neither P. Forsberg nor M. Hossa played for their respective teams last night. As mentioned, they are just pre-season games, players are trying to get the rust out of them and at the same time get acquainted with the new rules. Having said that, it's going to be a high scoring seson.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:19 am

Not to mention that neither P. Forsberg nor M. Hossa played for their respective teams last night. As mentioned, they are just pre-season games, players are trying to get the rust out of them and at the same time get acquainted with the new rules. Having said that, it's going to be a high scoring season.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:18 am

That being said, the Flyer played the Thrashers this afternoon and won 8-6. Yes, 8-6. Whose gonna be more upset about that one, Hitchock for giving up 6 or Hartley for giving up 8? Preseason or not that's pretty eye-popping.

Shot totals were 35 a piece...not to high, yet 8-6. Still early so we shall see.