OT: Lootings, Carjackings, and shootings in New Orleans

[wco81]

We rebuild cities located in disaster-prone areas like earthquake faults and flood-prone coastal regions because we have no other choice. We're not going to only inhabit areas several hundred miles inland.

We will rebuild LA and SF where they are because between killer earthquakes, they will make way more money than it costs to rebuild and that money will go to insurance cos. which underwrite the risk. And a lot of the money made in those cities will go to Federal govt. coffers over decades (CA is one of the states which contribute more in taxes than it gets in benefits).

A few years ago, there was a strike at the port of LA and that disrupted the flow of some goods. There was even talk about re-routing ships through the Panama canal.

[Jayhawker]

I know I have been guilty of posting some items that show some of the negative things going on in NO. Just informational items for which I gave no opinion.

I just hope in the coming days, the stories of people who are doing what they can to save lives in the face of this great tragedy are heard. It is a small percentage that are doing the looting that is getting all the attention. The government has been woefully slow in responding, but hopefully, the stories of private citizens who are pitching in to help and protect and save can take precedence once the violence is under control.

I hope those stories will inspire a better response throughout the country than pics of people stealing tv's.

There's no way the shootings, looting, and overall urban warfare enviroment going on dowen there should be ignored. What I posted about my wife's aunt in the other thread was an attempt to bring out some of the other stuff going on as well. But as she had told her sister, things are far worse than they are showing on TV. The problem is, a guy walking around with a video camera is a HUGE target.

Until the press can tag along with troops, they just cannot get close enough to the worst of what's going on. Believe me, there are plenty of journalists that would like to show the real stories, but it's apparently just not possible.

I work in retail. the fact is, these is an element, and it is not just black, of people that come into our stores everyday to steal. This element just exists, and they know that the risk involved in shoplifting is not very great. They rarely get arrested, and when they do it amounts to a ticket. Take away law enforcement, and they would get much bolder. Any city with a substancial amount of people living below the povery line will see this exact same story play out.

When people in St. Louis try to make it a racial issue, I just point to Jefferson County to the south of us. Spend a day at their courthouse and you will see that scum comes in all colors. Mostly, it's lack of education, usually precipitated by poverty.

We like to talk about what parents should do and all of that, but if people want to solve the problem, we have to figure out how to get to these kids despite their parents. Giving up on them just creates a larger poverty class, and they have no problem looting from us when there is order.

Joe Rogan said it best in one of his bits. Dumb people outbreed smart people 20 to 1. We just keep getting dumber and dumber. The key is getting educated society to realize that educating this poverty class is harder, more expensive, but critical to our quality of life. It's sad to see that so far, the general reaction to the looters is to shoot them, when we need to figure out a way to bring that povery class up to a level where it is no longer in their interest to loot.

[bdoughty]

I always thought Joe Horn was a jackass due to Cell Phone incident but I heard an interview with him speaking about the tragedy and what he was going to do to help and was pleasantly suprised.

Could not find the complete interview but here is a snippet.

``It's not just the people in the (Astrodome), there are people in hotel rooms, 12 at a time with families piled on top of families, and they won't have the financial means,'' says Joe Horn, who plans to head for Houston to help a refugee family. ``I'm going to stay there two days and see if I can help them out. I know I can't help everybody, but I'm going to try my best because I love the fans there and in Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi.''

[Jayhawker]

I always thought Joe Horn was a jackass due to Cell Phone incident but I heard an interview with him speaking about the tragedy and what he was going to do to help and was pleasantly suprised.

Could not find the complete interview but here is a snippet.

``It's not just the people in the (Astrodome), there are people in hotel rooms, 12 at a time with families piled on top of families, and they won't have the financial means,'' says Joe Horn, who plans to head for Houston to help a refugee family. ``I'm going to stay there two days and see if I can help them out. I know I can't help everybody, but I'm going to try my best because I love the fans there and in Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi.''

I thought about this today. The Cardinals are in Houston this weekend. I would hope that they do something while they are in town. Sports teams can really make an impact if they choose to.

[billharris44]

I'm just gonna cut and paste this from Bill Harris' Dubious Quality site because I think he does an excellent job of setting up what is contained in the links. For the second link scroll back a few days to the beginning of the storm, August 28.

Wow. I'm reading through it. Here's a quote I'm sure he will regret:

When you look at the damage New Orleans sustained vs what we were told to expect, you're left with the impression that they will never be able to talk anyone into evacuating again....

Please let me clarify that the second quote referred to is not mine--it's from one of the articles I linked to.

[Jayhawker]

Please let me clarify that the second quote referred to is not mine--it's from one of the articles I linked to.

Sorry, Bill. I definitely did not mean to infer that you made that comment. I did a poor job of attributing that quote to the article. I'll fix the post to clear that up.

[anchester]

Its funny to hear the comments from both sides. On one side you have the defenders. I call these the liberals. They are the ones that say someone else is to blame, there is an excuse for this bad behavior, always criticize but never come up w/ solutions, and basically never take responsibility.

Then on the other side you have people who are fed up w/ this kind of rancid behavior and don't make excuses for these dillweeds. I am definately in the latter group. We need more in group 2 and less in group 1 in america. We have more in group 1 in france and the middle east. Let's get back to the work hard, take responsibility, treat thy neighbor w/ respect ethic, and punish the miscreants that this country has been founded on.

[sfz_T-car]

punish the miscreants that this country has been founded on.

LMAO

I know that's not what you meant.

[Leebo33]

Its funny to hear the comments from both sides. On one side you have the defenders. I call these the liberals. They are the ones that say someone else is to blame, there is an excuse for this bad behavior, always criticize but never come up w/ solutions, and basically never take responsibility.

Then on the other side you have people who are fed up w/ this kind of rancid behavior and don't make excuses for these dillweeds. I am definately in the latter group. We need more in group 2 and less in group 1 in america. We have more in group 1 in france and the middle east. Let's get back to the work hard, take responsibility, treat thy neighbor w/ respect ethic, and punish the miscreants that this country has been founded on.

I'm not sure where I fit in. I am working hard to be in group 2 (the non-liberal group), so I can take next August off on vacation I've been practicing. When my boss asks for a status update on a project, I just tell him that "I'm making progress", "I think about it everyday", and "it's hard work."

[bdoughty]

I hope there is a group 3 because I really do not want to be lumped in with anchester in group 2.

[pk500]

Its funny to hear the comments from both sides. On one side you have the defenders. I call these the liberals. They are the ones that say someone else is to blame, there is an excuse for this bad behavior, always criticize but never come up w/ solutions, and basically never take responsibility.

Then on the other side you have people who are fed up w/ this kind of rancid behavior and don't make excuses for these dillweeds. I am definately in the latter group. We need more in group 2 and less in group 1 in america. We have more in group 1 in france and the middle east. Let's get back to the work hard, take responsibility, treat thy neighbor w/ respect ethic, and punish the miscreants that this country has been founded on.

A simple response to a complex problem.

Anchester, your response seems to indicate that the looting and lawlessness were the only reason behind the slow response by federal, state and local government. That's clearly not the case. If there are 1,000 armed looters among the 50,000 people left in New Orleans, then 49 out of 50 people are trying to survive in apocalyptic conditions without breaking the law and without much government help.

The looting and lawlessness have delayed the response, but the government at all levels clearly was caught with its pants down on this one. I don't care if you're a Democrat, Republican or Libertarian -- one of the basic functions of government is to take care of its citizens during a crisis.

And Katrina, clearly, is one of the greatest crises that America has faced. And government help really only is starting to arrive today, four days after the hurricane arrived and created unimaginable squalor.

I'm a Libertarian who doesn't believe in government excess at all. But there's nothing excessive about spending to help citizens who are sh*tting on the sidewalk, sitting next to rotting corpses and have no food and water. They need government help.

You can sit and say "These people need to help themselves" all you want, and in theory, I agree there needs to be WAY more personal responsibility in this country. But this isn't a time for theory.

When people have no running water, no food and no sanitary facilities, with the elderly and babies dying around them, please explain to me how they're supposed to fend for themselves, work hard and take responsibility.

I'm all eyes and ears.

Take care,
PK

[bdoughty]

Once again PK hits the nail on the head. Kudos my friend.

Anyone else tired of the New Orleans mayor beign compared to Giuliani beacuse of his VAILD rant against the goverment today? You can't compare 9/11 to this. Plus this is a situation where days in adavance we knew what was coming and still little to no assitance from the goverment.

He may not be using tact but at this point I do not blame him one bit.

[NoJoke]

I've had the unfortunate privilege of living in NY for 9/11 and Louisiana for Katrina. Although I have no hard evidence for this belief, I can tell you I would feel much better if Giuliani were in charge down here than the people currently in charge.

Instead of taking action, the governor here is too busy demanding apologies from Dennis Hasbert and crying on television. The Mayor of NO seems to be blaming the governor. If what he is saying is true (that the feds could not have come until the governor requested it) then she should be gone.

Based upon her appearance on tv on Monday afternoon, where she told everyone disaster had been averted, but don't come back to NO just yet, I wonder if she didn't tell the feds or the National Guard to stand down. It seemed to never occur to her that just because the hurricane had passed, that a flood was possible. Just my two cents, but I've been wondering about it since Monday.

Joe

[blueduke]

But I'm not surprised that the private sector can get things done better than government. That's always been the case and always will.

Initiative is a very powerful thing, and government never has shown much of it. Government is reactive rather than proactive, something borne out more than ever this week.

Amen to that.

Anyone else tired of the New Orleans mayor beign compared to Giuliani beacuse of his VAILD rant against the goverment today? You can't compare 9/11 to this. Plus this is a situation where days in adavance we knew what was coming and still little to no assitance from the goverment.

Why didn't the good mayor use what means he had to get people out during the mandatory evacuation? not's like he didn't have the vehicles to do it:

Plenty of school buses sitting under water now.

He may not be using tact but at this point I do not blame him one bit.

The mayor sounds to me to be in CYA mode.

[bdoughty]

The mayor sounds to me to be in CYA mode.

Thousands are dying around him and sadly more to come. Tell me what you would be doing if you had little to no control, but were in charge of the city.

[blueduke]

Thousands are dying around him and sadly more to come. Tell me what you would be doing if you had little to no control, but were in charge of the city.

If I were to blame I would hope I wouldn't be pointing fingers. I would hope I'd be off my ass helping to rescue people I could get to the polls on election day but couldn't get out of town for a hurricane

These people got out.........

http://www.newschannel5.tv/2005/9/1/425 ... -Astrodome

[Inuyasha]

None of these guy could really do anything, everyone was unprepared. The mayor, govenor, President, etc..

Like 9/11, no one thought something like this could happen to our country. When you are affluent country like we are, we don't think bad things like this will happen here, they happen in other places. Just like the higher middle class suburb of Columbine never thought a school shooting would happen in their town.

I hope these idiot politicans would stop pointing fingers and get the help there ASAP.

[pk500]

The mayor sounds to me to be in CYA mode.

Normally I would agree with you, blue. But not in this case.

Nagin is desperate, watching his city become hell on Earth. He is seeing his citizens sh*t on the street, corpses in water, babies and the elderly starving, his own citizens destroying more of the city, and he's breaking down. He knows it will take months, maybe YEARS, to rebuild his entire city, not just a few blocks like Manhattan on 9/11. And there's also a helplessness he must feel because he's not getting the job done, and neither are the Feds or state officials.

It's a natural human reaction. I listened to the 12-minute interview with Nagin on New Orleans radio in which he ripped the Feds, and the man was in tears at the end. It was REAL emotion, not the kind of Oscar-winning stuff that Clinton could whip up four times per day when on the election trail.

I feel for Nagin. He's not statemanlike at all like Giuliani was, and he's not as effective as Guiliani was. But we're dealing with a much more widespread and apolcalyptic tragedy here than 9/11 with a seemingly much slower Federal and state response, so I can understand the frustration.

Nagin did show a cool head to the public as the storm was bearing down on the Gulf Coast, but the man has broken down and is simply showing a very human side to this tragedy from a very visible position.

Take care,
PK

[TheHiddenTrack]

The way Bush and company have handled this is horrific, what a joke.

[blueduke]

PK I understand the frustration too but in an emergency situation that could spiral out of control finger pointing shouldn't be an option. He had the school buses at his disposal, not Washington

[bdoughty]

Hey Blue, be unlike the Goverment, get off your ass and fix your image that is morphing the thread to be unreadable.

[dbdynsty25]

Hey Blue, be unlike the Goverment, get off your ass and fix your image that is morphing the thread to be unreadable.

LOL...

[blueduke]

Hey Blue, be unlike the Goverment, get off your ass and fix your image that is morphing the thread to be unreadable.

I don't know why that freakin' image won't post. Ah heck here's the link................

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... 1109012015

[mobiggins]

I love how Bush is now all, 'this response is unacceptable!'
So, Dubya--a small government republican--has created one of the most bloated bureaucracies ever post-9/11, and the Homeland Security Administration has evidently sat on its ass the past 4 years after 9/11 coming up with different colors to qualify threats instead of actually preparing for anything. Terrorists could have blown up levees, and the HSD would have been just as far with thumbs up their asses.

What bothers me is that the world is watching, and those who would do harm to the US (who weren't in Iraq in large numbers before the US invasion anyway) now smell blood. We have a dumbass in the White House who's committed us forever in a pointless war, gas prices are through the roof, the world sees that we can't take care of our poor in general, much less in a crisis like this, and America's cultural, economic, political, etc. clout and stock is dropping like mad. We live in interesting times.

[Inuyasha]

Looks like those buses are flooded. Do we know how many of them could run?

Also, when the hurricane passed and the town flooded, I dont think bringing in buses would have helped much. From what I've been reading, it was virtually impossible to get anywhere with a vehicle with the waters so high.