OT: Lootings, Carjackings, and shootings in New Orleans

[pk500]

Wow. We talk about Slate having no tact or class with its timing. Move Dennis Hastert to the front of that line now:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/01/ ... index.html

He makes some thought-provoking points. But now is not the time to be making them.

Talking about whether New Orleans should be rebuilt while death, raping and starvation are occuring on the streets is the pinnacle of insensitivity.

What a jackass.

Take care,
PK

[TheMightyPuck]

So as I keep watching TV I rememeber why I dont...

Do we report or try to suck cock?

This is the lowest point the scum at the networks has reached...at least in My eyes...but yeah...MINE are OPEN...

I can't watch the networks for stuff like this. I'd shoot my TV.

[blueduke]

Dennis Hasert wins a seat at the "I'm a JACKASS. Just listen to me and I'll prove it" table. Seat him in between JFK Jr. and David Brooks. Slate would be there too but alot of what they said actually had some relevance.

[ProvoAnC]

you guys catch Bush's motivational little speech this AM? The sounds of me dropping a deuce would've been better than that. I also like how Congress is off another week...don't do anything for the f***in PEOPLE THAT GOT YOU YOUR PHONY f***in JOBS YOU f***in PRICKS!

[NoJoke]

Just found this on the net. Passing it along for informational purposes to give an idea of what is going on in NO.







First off I wanted to post what REALLY is going on in this city. Please don't get this thread locked people. The news stations are only showing a minuscule of reality. This post may offend some people but I will post what I saw, like it or not it is REALITY.
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Well last night I was watching the 6pm news when they announced the 17th street canal pumps failed as well as another break in the levee. My house is right off St. Charles Ave. and up to 6pm yesterday is was the only part of the city that was dry. Since the pumps failed and the new break St. Charles Ave. would be under 9ft of water in the next 12-15hrs. My brother and I felt if we wanted to save anything we had to leave NOW. We loaded up flashlights, rope, our medical ID's, both our .45 Glocks, 2 shotguns and rode out. En-route we listened to the radio which broad casted all the news about the looters and what not, in hindsight it was a mistake. My mother didn't want us to go by dad who is a Vietnam vet told to be safe and "shoot to kill" if it ever comes to that.

One the way we had to pass 5-6 checkpoints to allow entry into the city. We stated we were medical personnel who were activated, showed our ID and off we went. On the radio reports were coming in about the officer who was shot in the head, the 2 gunman who opened fired on the NOPD station, and how looters were carjacking cars to get out of the city. This started making my brother nervous and giving seconds thoughts.

Anyway we get to the city and it looks like a freaking war zone. The best visual I can give is the movie "Blackhawk Down" when all the Somalians are rushing the city. They are people EVERYWHERE, they are pissed off, and all have weapons, 2X4's, Axes, and guns. If this wasn't bad enough we are 2 white boys in a truck in a sea several hundred armed pissed off blacks. There wasn't a white person to be found. I couldn't get over the little 8-10yr old kids with weapons, I ever saw one carry a claw hammer!

These people were absolutely nuts rammed trucks(stolen I'm sure) in to jewelry stores stealing items, they were tearing apart Wal-Mart carrying out TV's, Playstations, DVD players, etc. One lady was wheeling out an entire rack of merchandise, not sure what it was but sure wasn't clothes for food. They were all laughing and carrying on like it's freaking Christmas.

We got stuck in traffic when we see the group of guys walking down the street w/ AK-47's, at that point the "pucker factor" kicked in, a couple Glocks and shotguns were no match for that. We haul azz trying to get to Uptown when we see these people chopping down the front door w/ an axe of this $4-5 million dollar mansion on ST. Charles Ave. I was just in total awe because it was so surreal. Making matters worse it's 11pm at night there is no electricity and you really can see anything or anyone until they are right up on you.

Our plan was to be in and out in 30min, this included putting his Harley on the trailer. It would have taken me 5-10min tops to get my stuff, all I wanted was my pictures from college, my clothes/shoes, and my computer tower. Well he got scared saying we are going to get jumped while putting the bike on the trailer. Keep in mind this is the only area in the city that is dry. So just like rats who move to higher ground these people were doing the same. Word must have gotten out that Uptown was dry so there started to be a large influx of people.

Needless to say he wanted to go home rather than take our chances. While it was the smart thing to do I was beyond infuriated w/ him because we made it this far. He just kept saying our lives aren't worth it. So we turned around, our next challenge was getting out of the city while not getting jacked. Reports came out that people were jumping in the back of truck holding the drivers at gunpoint. Traffic started to slow so I just nailed it got out as fast as I could.

Even though he was the voice of reason I'm still pissed. All I have is my life and the clothes on my back. I lost my house(which is now 9ft underwater) ALL my clothes, TV, computer, furniture, and photo albums and videos from childhood and college. What makes this worse is my brother owned the house and I was a tenant and I didn't have renters insurance, hindsight is 20/20.

I also hope everyone of the ****ing looters get Tetanus, E-Coli and ****NG drown. I'm serious I really hope the all die for what they were doing to the city, killing people, and destroying homes. Never in my life have I ever seen people act live savages, it was truly sicking.



Well I attempted fate again and went back to the city. Didn't want to start a flame fest so I figured I'd post afterward. Most of you will not/do not understand WHY I went back but I think some will. This time we went in broad daylight and initially there was to be five but ended up three. We were armed w/ two pistols each(plus 2 back up) and each having 12-gague shot guns (Police/Military spec Remington 870). Once again we were force through 5 checkpoints had to show ID. At the last checkpoint the State Trooper asked "Are you carrying" to which we said yes and he then replied "Good, you may have to use them."

Overall the Westbank of the city is pretty dry, surprisingly. We exited at Tchoupitoulas and it is right near the Superdome w/people everywhere. The road was clear and we didn't stop. First we went to my buddy's house on Magazine which was dry as a bone, no water what so ever. My bro and I set up a perimeter while Lance went inside to get his stuff. Heilo's were everywhere, Coast Guard, local oil company, Huey's and even Blackhawks. I'm outside and these two people pass pushing a shopping car and the women is staring at the gun. She said "Damn dat's a big 'ole gun, I just smiled and shook my head "yes". A truck full of National Guards pass by and when they saw us they cheered "Who Hoo" I'm assuming b/c the guns. What was frightening was they they didn't have any guns! We finished there and went on to my house. I was pretty pumped because Lance's house was dry and only a couple blocks down from mmine on the other side of St. Charles. Well my joy shortly faided when every street was covered with water and 200yr old oak branches. We turn the corner and see one of the famous historic New Orleans homes, I mean MANSION to be inhabited by a family who OBVIOUSLY did not live there. I mean this is easily a $5-6 million dollar home and these people are sitting on the porch, kids playing football in the yard, clothes strung out on the lawn. I just couldn't believe it.

The closest I could get to the house without submerging the truck was 5 blocks,great. Water was up to my waist and I'm 5'10. At one point we had o "tightrope walk" across a cemetery wall because the water was so deep it was easily over our heads. As we are walking we are passing families sitting on the porch just watching us, I felt sorry for them. We finally make it to the house and there is about 4ft of water in front which is good because the house is 6ft off the ground. I was happy the house was dry and not looted. We check the house and it's safe and we grab the bare essential, clothes, pictures, documents. I had to leave my new TV, computer, stereo, etc. Well I had about 50lbs in each hand which I soon learned was too much. I'm not weak by any means but carrying 80-100lbs that many blocksabove water was WORK!. Sadly we couldn't get the Harley, but for now it is safe and dry. We gave the family on the porch a couple gallons of water from the truck on the way back.

Next we go to Lance's GF's house and while I'm outside making sure everything is cool a neighbor walks up w/ a sidearm and asked if the Military has arrived yet. I tell him about the troops that rode by earlier and he stated he's shot at several people trying to loot neighbor's houses and cars. He was out of 12 gauge buckshot so I gave him a box.

So we are loaded up and heading toward the bridge when we pass the Wal-Mart on Tchoupitoulas and see two soldiers guarding the store. We pull up to talk to him and I guess he saw the shotguns and he IMMEDIATELY drew his weapon. I'm still now certain what type of fully automatic rifle it was (no M16 or anything like that). Anyway we all put our hands up and ask him if it was safe to exit up ahead and if he needed anything like water, ammo, etc. He said "I'll take all the ammo you can spare". I asked if they are low already and he stated that in anticipation of the storm they sent all the weapons and ammo to Jackson,Ms and it flooded before they could get to them. So THAT is why none of the Guardsmen are carrying. We gave him all the ammo we had minus what was in our clips. So they ended up w/ around 5-6 boxes of buckshot and 150-200 rounds of hollow point .45

He then said 'Be careful up ahead they are rioting at the Superdome. Whatever you do DO NOT STOP. We leave and take the on ramp and infront of us is 200-300 people blocking the on ramp trying to get out of the city. We put out guns to the windows(they have been carjacking every car leaving the city) held the horn and never dropped below 15mph. People were moving away then rushing the truck but after seeing the guns they backed off. I really felt bad for some of those people because they looked tired and have a looong walk ahead of them but we weren't taking any chances.

[Wrekcut1]

Very good read....where did you find it?

[anchester]

oh my....what a story....

new orleans is the armpit of america

[Spooky]

oh my....what a story....

new orleans is the armpit of america

Wow...that was nice.

If that was typical, normal, everyday life there than that statement would be appropriate. But considering what is occuring there your comment is a bit uncalled for.

[kevinpars]

Where the hell is the federal government? We have been hearing for days about how troops are coming, supplies are coming, helicopters are coming. Where the hell are they? In Iraq? What the hell would happen if another hurricane were to hit Florida or if there were an earthquake in California? Where the hell is the infrastructure in this country?

Regular people are doing a lot more than the government, that is for sure. A software company in Texas is stepping up and collecting supplies to give to victims. Mu wife is getting a box in the mail today. And yes, despite what the Red Cross is saying, they do need blankets and towels. Someone was turned away from a shelter who had a truck load of water and supplies and then found out from the people inside that all of the stuff was needed and needed now.

And the head of FEMA has a lot of nerve blaming the victims and saying it is their own fault for staying. A lot of people simply couldn't leave New Orleans because they were sick, they didn't have the money, or they had a responsibility to stay. I know some disaster recovery folks for one of the banks had to be rescued off the top of a building.

This should be no shock to people. They knew what could happen if a storm like this hit and yet there still was no preparation. Where the hell is the infrastructure in this country? Honestly, have we sent all of our money and resources to Iraq? Hell, we are handling this crisis like the French or Italians. FEMA should have been in New Orleans before it even hit.

Doctors have to call the Associated Press for help because the government won’t respond to the fact that there are sick people on the top 2 floors of a hospital running out of supplies and FEMA says that everything is under control?

How stupid can people be? Not just the looting and crime. What about the morons who own the floating casinos that could disconnected and gone out into the gulf instead of waiting too long and seeing their property float onto shore to sit on top of the Holiday Inn or on Interstate 10.

This is just really bad. Thousands of people are dying and half the country is getting geared up for the first weekend of college football.

[bdoughty]

This is just really bad. Thousands of people are dying and half the country is getting geared up for the first weekend of college football.

Okay I was with you up until that part. So it is wrong to watch college football this weekend? I guess I should feel guilty for playing NCAA 2006 last night or posting on a video game message board.

[10spro]

What puzzles me and is beyond belief, is that all this is happening in our backyard, the most powerful nation in the world. One thing is to see poverty and people struggling in other 3rd countries ,but America?

[NoJoke]

I actually found it, of all place, in a forum at thesuperficial, a celebrity gossip site. I was trying to dwell on some lite info to get my mind off things. So its not really a site with a great deal of additional info.

Joe

[bdoughty]

What puzzles me and is beyond belief, is that all this is happening in our backyard, the most powerful nation in the world. One thing is to see poverty and people struggling in other 3rd countries ,but America?

Do you ever venture into the worng side of town? Poverty is not something new you know. I am shocked that anyone is just finding this out right now. I do volunteer work for meals on wheels and see it weekly.

Here is a little eye opener for you. I am keeping it limited to small segment so you do not fall out of your chair in disbelief.


NCH Fact Sheet #9
Published by the National Coalition for the Homeless, January 2004

This fact sheet examines homelessness among U.S. veterans. A list of resources for further study is also provided.

BACKGROUND
Approximately 33% of homeless men are veterans, although veterans comprise only 23% of the general adult male population. The National Coalition for Homeless Veterans estimates that on any given night, 299,321 veterans are homeless (National Coalition for Homeless Veterans, 2003).

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/veterans.html


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Plenty of things you can do to help in your own area. Poverty is everywhere and not limited to the tragedy in New Orleans.

[matthewk]

Random thoughts:

1) I am sick and tired of seeing hours of nothing but shots of the Superdome. Our news coverage is pathetic. What about all of the other areas where people are literally stranded on buildings?

2) Where the f*&k is the help? It's been over 3 days and people are still wating for help. Why don't they take boats in if the roads are blocked? I am in shock at the lack of support this area seems to be getting from us.

3) Why is there a big city located in place that is bleow sea level in many places? The guy from IL was an ass to mention this at this particular time, but local talk radio was discussing this topic yesterday. A lot of these people will be relocated by the time the area is habitable again, and I'll bet many of them won't come back.

4) Why is congress still on vacation!!!?!?!?!! They've been on "break" for 5 weeks, why is it so hard for them to get their butts back in to work in order to do what they can to help?

5) Each day this situation gets more sickening. For some reason I really want to start hearing first hand accounts from people (no reporters) who are living through this. I feel the news is giving us the fluff, but I want to know what is really going on in some detail, good, bad or otherwise.

6) Rich or poor, black or white, I really feel bad for these people. I'm sure the groups that stayed fell into one of 4 categories. 1)Those who could not leave for economic or health reasons. 2) Those who felt that this was their home, and could bear to leave it. 3) Those who had to stay (doctors, police, etc..). 4) Those who saw this as an opportunity to loot. I would not put it past a lot these criminals to have planned on staying just so they could loot the deserted homes & businesses.

[10spro]

BD what I was referring is not so much the poverty which as you state it exists everywhere in America, and in the World for that matter. What it's unacceptable and shocking is how people are reacting to what just happened to them. The looting, the beatings, the rapings, the absolute chaos. Like Matt was mentioning were are the federal polititians, I mean the only thing we haven't seen yet is to have a 5 year kid biting on his slice of bread only to be taken away by some moron.

Apparently help is on the way, Bush made his speech, but isn't a bit too late?

[bdoughty]

What it's unacceptable and shocking is how people are reacting to what just happened to them. The looting, the beatings, the rapings, the absolute chaos. Like Matt was mentioning were are the federal polititians, I mean the only thing we haven't seen yet is to have a 5 year kid biting on his slice of bread only to be taken away by some moron.

Apparently help is on the way, Bush made his speech, but isn't a bit too late?

Just as it is unacceptable after a team wins the Super Bowl, World Series, etc etc - yet you still have the looting, beatings and chaos. This is after something GOOD happens in your city, for your team.

To me it was expected. Not because of the city, the makeup of the people who lived there, etc. It is how people react to tragic events. Some react bravely, others take advantage of the situation. Simply look back at all the other tragic events in the past and you will find the same thing.

[blueduke]

Random thoughts:

1) I am sick and tired of seeing hours of nothing but shots of the Superdome. Our news coverage is pathetic. What about all of the other areas where people are literally stranded on buildings?

2) Where the f*&k is the help? It's been over 3 days and people are still wating for help. Why don't they take boats in if the roads are blocked? I am in shock at the lack of support this area seems to be getting from us.

3) Why is there a big city located in place that is bleow sea level in many places? The guy from IL was an ass to mention this at this particular time, but local talk radio was discussing this topic yesterday. A lot of these people will be relocated by the time the area is habitable again, and I'll bet many of them won't come back.

4) Why is congress still on vacation!!!?!?!?!! They've been on "break" for 5 weeks, why is it so hard for them to get their butts back in to work in order to do what they can to help?

5) Each day this situation gets more sickening. For some reason I really want to start hearing first hand accounts from people (no reporters) who are living through this. I feel the news is giving us the fluff, but I want to know what is really going on in some detail, good, bad or otherwise.

6) Rich or poor, black or white, I really feel bad for these people. I'm sure the groups that stayed fell into one of 4 categories. 1)Those who could not leave for economic or health reasons. 2) Those who felt that this was their home, and could bear to leave it. 3) Those who had to stay (doctors, police, etc..). 4) Those who saw this as an opportunity to loot. I would not put it past a lot these criminals to have planned on staying just so they could loot the deserted homes & businesses.

I agree with you completely, Matt. Thought #2 though can be answered by the fact alot of the rescuers tuned back b/c they were getting shot at. Don't know if the story pasted by NoJoke is authentic, but if they predicted the storm would hit Miss and sent the ammo there ahead of time that would explain for some of the delay. I'm ready to hear at least a little good news come out of NO and I finally found some:

The water has started to flow back into Lake Pontchartrain as the lake's water level has gone down, and after three days of people not being sure how to fix the breach in the 17th Street Canal levee, a local contractor, Boh Bros. Construction Co, apparently got tired of waiting and they went out and did something about it, according to the Washington Post: "[f]or three days, Corps officials had lamented the difficulty of gaining access to the canal, but yesterday a local contractor, Boh Bros. Construction Co., apparently drove to the mouth of the canal and started placing a set of steel sheet pilings to isolate the canal from the lake. This job was finished yesterday afternoon."

Now they can start work on the breach. And the city, surprisingly, is already 53% drained.

The breaches are now being used as drains, and the Corps of Engineers has punched holes in some other places to help the water rush back out into the lake and, later, the Gulf.

Theoretically, they can start pumping water out Friday, if all goes well. And actually, some pumps in higher areas have continued to work.

[pk500]

Boh Bros. Construction workers and management are heroes! Way to go!

But I'm not surprised that the private sector can get things done better than government. That's always been the case and always will.

Initiative is a very powerful thing, and government never has shown much of it. Government is reactive rather than proactive, something borne out more than ever this week.

But this time the stakes, and the tragedy, are as high as they've ever been in homeland America. I've had little faith in government for a long time, but what about people who do believe in the ability of the government to help its citizens? What are they thinking now when the U.S. governmental infrastructure looks Third World-ish at best?

So sad. So, so sad.

Take care,
PK

[AcemanPR]

Our government is so screwed up. It is mind boggling that we can get supplies to tsunami ravaged Thailand half way around the world in 24 hours but it's taken 3 days to get supplies to some parts of The Gulf. I understand there is lawlessness going on, but there are plenty of places that these helicopters could have dropped these supplies, then boated them in little by little. People in this country really need to start considering how as a common people we can change the national government to better function America.

[Spooky]

Our government is so screwed up. It is mind boggling that we can get supplies to tsunami ravaged Thailand half way around the world in 24 hours but it's taken 3 days to get supplies to some parts of The Gulf. I understand there is lawlessness going on, but there are plenty of places that these helicopters could have dropped these supplies, then boated them in little by little. People in this country really need to start considering how as a common people we can change the national government to better function America.

Yeah, I am a bit skeptical on all of this talk of sniper fire & lawlessness slowing down help. Unless it is WAY worse than what is being reported (which is entirely possible), I don’t see how that should really slow down aid efforts. I mean, we have no problem storming into all these towns in Iraq, which are probably hundreds of times more dangerous, to play ‘hero’ and assist the citizens there. We have no hesitancy and qualms about freeing the people of that country by invading and overthrowing their capitol city. Why can’t we take the same approach in regards to providing aid in a major city IN OUR OWN DAMN COUNTRY! Interesting, no?

If people are stopping you from bringing aid and relief to those in dire need, take ‘em out of the equation by whatever means necessary and get that aid to people by whatever means necessary. These first few days are beginning to look like a complete chicken sh*t operation from a decision making standpoint. This is NOT meant to take any credit away from all of those people who are certainly going above and beyond in this time of need.

[wco81]

US Army Corps of Engineers are in charge of the levees and flood control systems.

Unless Boh Bros. plan to maintain those systems indefinitely, it's going to remain a govt. job. Bravo to them for helping in an emergency but I don't think they're going to sign on to take care of flood control for the city. Nor would it be fair if their fixes fail later to hold them liable.

Yeah FEMA and Homeland Security have not performed well. We can talk about why that was and what to do about it in the future but they're the ones who are going to bring relief supplies and funds, not some private entity.

Already, some people are saying federal money should not be used to rebuild NO and the other cities hit by this disaster. But do the cities and states have the money to rebuild on their own?

And should they, because that area is vital to so much of the Midwestern economies and energy supplies to the Atlantic seaboard?

They could move the city to higher ground (assuming there is land which isn't already occupied) but they will have to leave the port their and all the various industries (refineries, terminals, all the infrastructure used to harvest shellfish, etc.). So they could have people commute out to the port while living on higher ground.

But that means new roads, transit systems. Even if you don't believe in govt. spending for these, when has any big highway/road project or some mass transit system not been federally funded?

Given the budget mess, we may not be able to afford it. But given the impact of this area to the national economy, we may not be able to afford not doing it.

[dbdynsty25]

My buddy, who went to school at Xavier in NO and is now an internal medicine MD, said that he's heard from a few of his friends that stayed in NO. They said that it's 10x worse than what we're seeing on TV...the sad thing is, I'm not surprised. He said that when he lived there, from 96-01, there was an average of 1 murder every 8 hours in NO...and it's went up since then. He also said that it's always been known to be a place of police and political corruption that has also gotten worse.

My buddy went on to state that he's not surprised at all about all of the violence and sh*t that has went down there. He said he wouldn't wish living in NO to his worst enemy, especially in the worst parts of the city. When you have 2/3 of your population below the poverty line, there really isn't much you can do when sh*t like this goes down...people will try to make their lives better with whatever means they find available.

He also said that as soon as he's done with his schedule in the next two months, he's going to head down there to help out with the relief efforts, offering his medical support...which is heroic to me.

[NoJoke]

I know I have been guilty of posting some items that show some of the negative things going on in NO. Just informational items for which I gave no opinion.

I just hope in the coming days, the stories of people who are doing what they can to save lives in the face of this great tragedy are heard. It is a small percentage that are doing the looting that is getting all the attention. The government has been woefully slow in responding, but hopefully, the stories of private citizens who are pitching in to help and protect and save can take precedence once the violence is under control.

I hope those stories will inspire a better response throughout the country than pics of people stealing tv's.

Joe

[wco81]

How do you know such a generous, selfless individual?

[pk500]

Given the budget mess, we may not be able to afford it. But given the impact of this area to the national economy, we may not be able to afford not doing it.

We have to do it.

We rebuild cities on fault lines in California without hesitation after earthquakes. See San Francisco, Northridge.

Now, in the midst of the largest national disaster in American history, with thousands of refugees, we're sending a signal to these people that they can't ever return to their home, that the government isn't going to help them rebuild?

That's ludicrous.

But you make a good point about the budget woes, WCO. And to that end, I ask this question: If we had to choose, what's more important: Stuffing a Western constitutional government down the throat of a tribal society on the other side of the Earth or rebuilding a huge AMERICAN area leveled by the greatest national disaster ever in U.S. history and caring for those AMERICANS in the largest diaspora in the U.S. since the Indian wars after the Civil War?

I know my answer. I'm not sure I know Bush's answer. And if Bush's answer is "both," then how can we do it without raising taxes? I don't see a way with the current government addiction to spending, especially when billions of dollars of justified government spending were created by that b*tch Katrina Monday morning.

Take care,
PK