Rediscovering NFL 2K5, comparisons to Madden 06

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:59 pm

Slumber:

Please keep us posted on how the Nick Chew/Finn global roster edits and sliders work with NFL 2K5.

Thanks!
PK

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:19 pm

Weaver2005 wrote:How do you run the ball in this game? Can someone give me tips?

Whenever I try to move the RB left or right, he seems to do some kind of little juke or something and gets stuffed. I am probably suffering from being too use to the running in madden.

My biggest complaint (outside the DB play) is the AI assisted juke. The key is not to jerk the stick to the right or left, this causes that annoying AI juke when running. Allow the back some time for the hole to create before going bonkers tapping the turbo, in fact I suggest holding down on the "a" button until you get to the line of scrimmage, filling up the circle. The you can tap once for an power sprint, or the other options. Go to practice mode and use "special moves" to get used to this and how not to jerk the stick (no pun intended) which creates the AI assisted juke. Once you learn how to "arc" your movements you will find running easier.

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:39 pm

Weaver2005 wrote:How do you run the ball in this game? Can someone give me tips?

Whenever I try to move the RB left or right, he seems to do some kind of little juke or something and gets stuffed. I am probably suffering from being too use to the running in madden.

They included this move in order to make cuts more realistic. The back has to slow down to make his cuts. This was done to make the running game more challenging, as it was too easy to reverse on a dime, and weave through traffic.

The key is not to hit the holes too soon, and to follow your blockers.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:57 pm

First off I see the same DB issues with Madden. They are not as extreme but I hate, just hate the when in Madden the DBs go for an interception or make a dive for a ball, when they are 5 yards away from the play.

Everybody wants to b*tch about NFL 2k5. But they same things happen more frequently in Madden but not as extreme.

I put down madden when the CPU will not throw short. I hate that in every football game there is. When an outlet is wide open and the AI continues to throw into 2 and 3 deep coverage.

I still think NFL 2k5 and Madden are the same in terms of quality and that's not saying anything positive. The bug-ridden mess that is NFL 2k5 is still as good as consistent underachiever? What does that tell you about the state of football gaming. Madden is close but so was NFL 2k5.

The last thing about Madden that bugs me is the passing game. I like the cone but I hate the passing game. Blame it on the DBs, QBs, routes whatever. You have to throw to wide open guys are the CPU will eat you alive. Plus quick passes never work. A quick slant to Rod Smith should work more often then a long corner. Yet the chances for success are the same.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:20 pm

JRod wrote:You have to throw to wide open guys are the CPU will eat you alive. Plus quick passes never work. A quick slant to Rod Smith should work more often then a long corner. Yet the chances for success are the same.

Some claim that slant patterns are money in Madden and others complain that they don't work well enough!

I can agree with most criticisms of Madden, but this is something I'm really not seeing. I think the passing game is as balanced as any game I've ever played. I don't have to throw to wide open guys all the time if I use precision passing.

Madden has its share of issues, but I do not feel that human passing is one of them. I really like the cone passing, I like the pocket and how I can step up, I love sliding the protection, I think that QB accuracy ratings matter, I think the QB foot speed is spot on, I love how you can look off the CPU with the cone, I can get YAC, the receivers don't drop passes they shouldn't, etc.

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:22 pm

A quick slant to Rod Smith should work more often then a long corner. Yet the chances for success are the same.

Actually, I have a much higher success with quick slants. Almost to the point that I feel confident I can pick up 5-7 yards whenever needed by running quick routes.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:24 am

Boom wrote:
A quick slant to Rod Smith should work more often then a long corner. Yet the chances for success are the same.
Actually, I have a much higher success with quick slants. Almost to the point that I feel confident I can pick up 5-7 yards whenever needed by running quick routes.

Yeah, I gotta disagree with JRod too. I get short patterns to work all the time. I have used the WR screen to good effect against the right defenses -- I could never get those plays to work in 2k5. The crossing routes over the middle will work in Madden, you just have to lead and also know when to throw. I actually think the human passing game in Madden is the best it's ever been -- it's the CPU passing that's taken a step backward.

The thing that bugs me about 2k5 -- and something that was not true in 2k4 -- is that there are way too many scores via big plays. The Robo RB in 2k4 was not nearly as big of a problem as the braindead safeties in 2k5. Most big plays in football happen when the safeties get taken out of a play or are caught out of position. It was at the point where I knew there would probably be at least a couple 50+ yard passes in every game of 2k5 because my DBs would f*** up.

And no one has mentioned the franchise mode, which is 100% broken beyond repair unless you take control of every team and manage everything yourself. It was an absolute slap in the face to release a game where one mode doesn't work at all because of how screwy the AI is.

Anyway, I don't want to get into old arguments. This thread highlights how much this whole exclusivity thing sucks. I would have loved to have seen what 2k6 could have been if they fixed these problems in 2k5.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:54 am

Brando70 wrote:I actually think the human passing game in Madden is the best it's ever been.

You couldn't have convinced me of that last night even if god said it himself. I was 20 of 50 with 9 picks and 0 tds. I was picked off 5 times in the red zone...that's good stuff. LOL. I only lost 35-17...I considered that point spread a monumental achievement after giving away that many posessions. I clearly need to practice more.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:29 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Brando70 wrote:I actually think the human passing game in Madden is the best it's ever been.
You couldn't have convinced me of that last night even if god said it himself. I was 20 of 50 with 9 picks and 0 tds. I was picked off 5 times in the red zone...that's good stuff. LOL. I only lost 35-17...I considered that point spread a monumental achievement after giving away that many posessions. I clearly need to practice more.

Oh, I have had my horrible days in the pocket. I think 7 was my max. I'm still struggling too. But what I meant was, you have a lot more control and variety in 2006 than other versions of Madden. Precision passing does work pretty well, and unlike 2005, you can go over the top of a defensive back if you have a couple steps or an inside/outside angle. The dbs still have exaggerated leaping, but it's not nearly as bad as last year IMHO. If you run a play action pass and the CB bites, he won't be able to deflect the pass from 5 yards behind the receiver (especially if you lead).

The bottom line is, I'm able to utilize patterns that have previously been useless. The only one I'm consistently struggling with are HB screens, because I either have to telegraph it with the cone or, if I look away, then throw to the HB, my lineman don't give me enough time to set up.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:22 pm

Brando70 wrote:And no one has mentioned the franchise mode, which is 100% broken beyond repair unless you take control of every team and manage everything yourself. It was an absolute slap in the face to release a game where one mode doesn't work at all because of how screwy the AI is.

Anyway, I don't want to get into old arguments. This thread highlights how much this whole exclusivity thing sucks. I would have loved to have seen what 2k6 could have been if they fixed these problems in 2k5.

Well I made it through 2 years in a franchise, so it's not 100% broken. There are issues, but you make it sound like the game is not able to complete a season. With preseason turned off, and a few house rules with respect to the draft and FAs, the franchise is fine by me. I really do wish we would have had 1 more year to simply fix the bugs. If only the NFL exclusive license was like the ESPN one in that Take 2 had a year's warning so they could have put out 1 final NFL game that just updated rosters and fixed bugs.

The second part I agree with completely. No matter what game you love/hate, having only 1 choice sucks big time.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:19 pm

I also just wanted to say that I agree with JRod. Madden has it's own DB AI issues, aside from the turbo boosting. I remember watching a play where the CPU defender moved away from the ball as it was in the air in order to turn and try and intercept it. The only problem was the WR was in forst of him on a curl. It looked almost exactly like some of the errors in 2k5 where the DB will turn himself out of the play.

I watched in in reply from 5 different angles, and the DB moved himslef out of the play in order to try and make a interception. The main problem was he was moving away from both the ball and the WR during this.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:40 pm

matthewk wrote:
Well I made it through 2 years in a franchise, so it's not 100% broken. There are issues, but you make it sound like the game is not able to complete a season. With preseason turned off, and a few house rules with respect to the draft and FAs, the franchise is fine by me. I really do wish we would have had 1 more year to simply fix the bugs. If only the NFL exclusive license was like the ESPN one in that Take 2 had a year's warning so they could have put out 1 final NFL game that just updated rosters and fixed bugs.

The second part I agree with completely. No matter what game you love/hate, having only 1 choice sucks big time.

My issue was with players being released and the crazy ass trades, even with preseason and weekly prep turned off. I remember seeing Terrell Suggs released because of a minor concussion, and the Panthers trading Delhomme to Jacksonville for Hugh Douglas -- and Jacksonville accepting the trade and starting Delhomme over Leftwich, the highest rated passer at that point in the season. Then there was the time I saw Peyton Manning returning punts. I can live with a certain lack of realism in personnel movement, but when the CPU teams are actually sabotaging their rosters....

Madden of course has got issues with this as well, I just didn't find them as extreme or unforgivable. As always, it comes down to what bothers each individual gamer and what they can live with.

I should also mention I played 4 seasons in 2k4 and didn't have much issue with the CPU management -- it had the usual kind of quirks franchise modes have. It's specifically 2k5 that drove me nuts.

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:51 pm

Anyone tryout the Finn/Chew w/ action replay yet?
I've been thinking about picking up an AR if these new rosters w/ edited ratings solves some of these issues.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:59 pm

laurenskye wrote:Anyone tryout the Finn/Chew w/ action replay yet?
I've been thinking about picking up an AR if these new rosters w/ edited ratings solves some of these issues.

I tried the edited ones first before sticking with Matts. They are making some really questionable changes across the board (discussed on another thread). Have not updated the schedule to 2005 but Matt's are working just fine and have not had a freeze yet. I am just editing players as I see fit. I have come to realize the flaws 2K5 has and live with them, as it gives me the best overall game for my taste. Hopefully Madden 2006 for the 360 will knock our socks off. Until then it is 2K5 with Matts file and the 2005 schedule change.

Plus the majority of time will be spent playing NCAA 2006.

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:09 pm

Matt, did you alter any DB ratings across the board to help with thier issues?

Boltman · Post by **Boltman** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:31 pm

I use Dreadedsteeler's roster, you can go to OS look for the DS thread, his final one is in post number 38 in that thread.

Those are awesome rosters, I use different sliders though, and the combo creates my best games in 2K6 heh.

DreadedSteeler · Post by **DreadedSteeler** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:55 pm

Thanks Boltman, i think it must've taken me about a month and some long nights to finish that roster. I hope people will at least give it a look...thanks.

BTW, the last version is actually on page 6 of that thread...post 59.

Boltman · Post by **Boltman** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:59 am

DreadedSteeler wrote:Thanks Boltman, i think it must've taken me about a month and some long nights to finish that roster. I hope people will at least give it a look...thanks.

BTW, the last version is actually on page 6 of that thread...post 59.

Yea my bad, the one I listed was yer' next to last.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:23 pm

DreadedSteeler wrote:Thanks Boltman, i think it must've taken me about a month and some long nights to finish that roster. I hope people will at least give it a look...thanks.

BTW, the last version is actually on page 6 of that thread...post 59.

Just a quick comment on your rosters. The Colts seem a bit low on offense. The problem seems to be the guards (both starters are in 50's if I recall) which are extremely low and the TE is a little low.

DreadedSteeler · Post by **DreadedSteeler** » Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:26 pm

Yeah, i barely touched any ratings. The problem there is they lost both starting guards from the last sega update...DeMulling and Peko. Their starters now are Scott and Lilja who were rated 56 and 42 respectively in that last update. They also lost Marcus pollard who was rated an 84 in that roster. I agree they are low, but again just didn't want to mess with the ratings.

However Nickchew has now started with this roster and i'm sure he'll do some extensive updating.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:14 pm

I can't play defense at all in this game, especially the passing game, and still trying to figure out running. After a week of playing, some of the things I disliked like the player movement and a few others things I rediscovered.

but....

I still am having fun playing this game. It's almost like a new game with the roster updates and I am enjoying it. It's not the best game I've played, but a nice change - of - pace game from EA football.

At the end, I still prefer madden06 but 2k5 is a nice compliment(sp?) to both madden and ncaa 06.

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:30 am

Well I broke down and got an AR and tried Finn/Chew franchise. I think it plays great with Nickchews roster edits and sliders and FlyingFinns has the 2005 and 2006 schedules that you can load into your franchise. First game of Lions (me) vs. Bears I totally dominated and ended up crushing them. I thought uh oh. So I replayed it just to see what would happen and I totally got my ass handed to me. Harrington went from no int. to 3 and stats look good.

I think I'm set for this years football, unless Madden 360 goes totally against my expectations and really impresses, but I'm not counting on it.

kicko · Post by **kicko** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:01 am

Brando70 wrote:
Boom wrote:
A quick slant to Rod Smith should work more often then a long corner. Yet the chances for success are the same.
Actually, I have a much higher success with quick slants. Almost to the point that I feel confident I can pick up 5-7 yards whenever needed by running quick routes.
Yeah, I gotta disagree with JRod too. I get short patterns to work all the time. I have used the WR screen to good effect against the right defenses -- I could never get those plays to work in 2k5. The crossing routes over the middle will work in Madden, you just have to lead and also know when to throw. I actually think the human passing game in Madden is the best it's ever been -- it's the CPU passing that's taken a step backward.

The thing that bugs me about 2k5 -- and something that was not true in 2k4 -- is that there are way too many scores via big plays. The Robo RB in 2k4 was not nearly as big of a problem as the braindead safeties in 2k5. Most big plays in football happen when the safeties get taken out of a play or are caught out of position. It was at the point where I knew there would probably be at least a couple 50+ yard passes in every game of 2k5 because my DBs would f*** up.

And no one has mentioned the franchise mode, which is 100% broken beyond repair unless you take control of every team and manage everything yourself. It was an absolute slap in the face to release a game where one mode doesn't work at all because of how screwy the AI is.

Anyway, I don't want to get into old arguments. This thread highlights how much this whole exclusivity thing sucks. I would have loved to have seen what 2k6 could have been if they fixed these problems in 2k5.

Exactly, last year after being wow-faced to the max with 2k5 i was so bummed the franchise was "broken" as all 2k5 games mostly were.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:10 pm

I've played four games so far with the Nickchew rosters and edits... these are the kinds of games I'm getting:

Jets (me) 34, Chiefs 20
Total Yards: 367 - 273
Passing Yards: 236 - 235
Rushing Yards: 131 - 38
Turnovers: 2 - 3
Sacks: 5 - 3
Pennington: 16/27
Green: 14/27

Cardinals (me) 36, Giants 17
Total Yards: 358 - 292
Passing Yards: 225 - 240
Rushing Yards: 133 - 52
Turnovers: 1 - 1
Sacks: 11 - 6
Warner: 13/31
Manning: 18/29

49ers (me) 14, Eagles 27
Total Yards: 341 - 416
Passing Yards: 249 - 225
Rushing Yards: 92 - 191
Turnovers: 4 - 1
Sacks: 3 - 2
Smith: 13/34
McNabb: 10/22

Dolphins 21, Jets (me) 80
Total Yards: 279 - 670
Passing Yards: 224 - 541
Rushing Yards: 55 - 129
Turnovers: 2 - 2
Sacks: 3 - 11
Pennington: 31/49
Feeley: 13/38

Obviously that last game got out of hand. My general impression is that the whole Nickchew experience is a bit lacking in difficulty. There were times when I could throw at will, and even get three sacks in a row, especially late in the game. The CPU doesn't seem to run well enough, except for that one Eagles game where McNabb scrambled like crazy. And most importantly, I don't see any improvement in DB play, which I believe is supposed to be the focus of this whole endeavor.

I'd recommend sticking with rosters that haven't been globally edited. I'll probably run with Bill Harris's sliders, though I might have to futz with pursuit.

HipE · Post by **HipE** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:26 am

Man, I had a hell of a time with NFL 2K5 last night. I was using Bill Harris's sliders and MatthewK's rosters, and I played two of the most enjoyable games of football I can ever remember playing. I lost a home game as Seattle vs the Falcons, then won a game on a last second fg as the Steelers at the Bears. Both games were incredibly fun to play, and the statistics for both were very realistic. I forgot what a joy this game can be to play. Gameplay aside, the graphics and presentation cannot be matched. The depth and richness of the colors blows any version of Madden away, plus I like just sitting and watching the cutscenes and overlays between each play. I also forgot how well done the halftime and postgame shows are, they blow away anything that there is in any other sports games. My copy of Madden is going up on ebay this week, I'm not going to be able to go back to it after the fun I had last night.