OT: Will Ted Kennedy demand answers from these folks ?

[Jackdog]

I am getting more laughs out of this thread than I thought. good one Leebo!

[bdoughty]

Clinton damage control must be at top alert... I guess you guys have a signal like batman?

[pk500]

Clinton and Bush are both liars. But Clinton lied about oral sex; Bush lied about reasons for war.

Clinton's lies killed no one, except for maybe Vince Foster and Ron Brown. The death toll of Bush's lies is 1,800 and climbing.

Take care,
PK

[bdoughty]

Clinton and Bush are both liars. But Clinton lied about oral sex; Bush lied about reasons for war.

Clinton's lies killed no one, except for maybe Vince Foster and Ron Brown. The death toll of Bush's lies is 1,800 and climbing.

Take care,
PK

Don't make me go on a Google Quest. You know damn well Clintons lies have cost soldiers lies. Sure they did not lead to a full out war but he sent out plenty of troops in his days and he if he is willing to lie about a "sloppy ywan - credit to Dennis Miller" he is willing to lie about anything.

[pk500]

Clinton and Bush are both liars. But Clinton lied about oral sex; Bush lied about reasons for war.

Clinton's lies killed no one, except for maybe Vince Foster and Ron Brown. The death toll of Bush's lies is 1,800 and climbing.

Take care,
PK

Don't make me go on a Google Quest. You know damn well Clintons lies have cost soldiers lies. Sure they did not lead to a full out war but he sent out plenty of troops in his days and he if he is willing to lie about a "sloppy ywan - credit to Dennis Miller" he is willing to lie about anything.

Fair enough. As I said, both are liars. But Bush's lies have caused the deaths of more of America's best and brightest.

I think Americans are finally starting to see through the lies. At least the poll numbers indicate so. And sadly, I think Bush still could have enjoyed support for this war if he leveled with the American people from the start. But he took us for fools, drunk with post-9/11, bullhorn-toting hubris.

Now who's the fool?

Take care,
PK

[bdoughty]

Clinton and Bush are both liars. But Clinton lied about oral sex; Bush lied about reasons for war.

Clinton's lies killed no one, except for maybe Vince Foster and Ron Brown. The death toll of Bush's lies is 1,800 and climbing.

Take care,
PK

Don't make me go on a Google Quest. You know damn well Clintons lies have cost soldiers lies. Sure they did not lead to a full out war but he sent out plenty of troops in his days and he if he is willing to lie about a "sloppy ywan - credit to Dennis Miller" he is willing to lie about anything.

Fair enough. As I said, both are liars. But Bush's lies have caused the deaths of more of America's best and brightest.

I think Americans are finally starting to see through the lies. At least the poll numbers indicate so. And sadly, I think Bush still could have enjoyed support for this war if he leveled with the American people from the start. But he took us for fools, drunk with post-9/11, bullhorn-toting hubris.

Now who's the fool?

Take care,
PK

The fool? Who is to say. What if 9/11 happened on any other presidents watch? Would things be done differently? Would the same lies not be told? The only fool (or I prefer misguided) IMHO is the one who thinks that the President alone decides such fate. Power corrupts but is not limited to those weilding what is publicly percieved the highest power.

[Jackdog]

Don't make me go on a Google Quest. You know damn well Clintons lies have cost soldiers lies. Sure they did not lead to a full out war but he sent out plenty of troops in his days and he if he is willing to lie about a "sloppy ywan - credit to Dennis Miller" he is willing to lie about anything.

Fair enough. As I said, both are liars. But Bush's lies have caused the deaths of more of America's best and brightest.

I think Americans are finally starting to see through the lies. At least the poll numbers indicate so. And sadly, I think Bush still could have enjoyed support for this war if he leveled with the American people from the start. But he took us for fools, drunk with post-9/11, bullhorn-toting hubris.

Now who's the fool?

Take care,
PK

The fool? Who is to say. What if 9/11 happened on any other presidents watch? Would things be done differently? Would the same lies not be told? The only fool (or I prefer misguided) IMHO is the one who thinks that the President alone decides such fate. Power corrupts but is not limited to those weilding what is publicly percieved the highest power.

I agree. Both sides of the asle voted for the war in Iraq. If they say they didn't know the facts and were lied to it's on them. They should have never voted yes to a war without getting off their fat asses and checking the facts for themselves.

Now that soldiers are dying everyday the same dickheads that voted yes are now trying to save their jobs by backing popular opinion to get out. Politics suck.

Now that we are in it, polls really don't mean $hit. PK you know as well I do we can't just pull out and come home. The worst of mankind is trolling over there waiting for us to go. More American kids would be right back there in a few years.

My request to this President would be to let our troops do what they were trained for. Let them wage a war that would wipe out the bastards that want to die and make the rest leave the country running.

Politics is the only thing saving those bastards right now. Our troops went through Iraq like $hit through a goose and then were told to stand down. Armor was pulled out and men that were trained for combat are now doing police work. All the while every terrorist wanting to wage Jehad has poured into Iraq. It's horseshit.

Our troops could clean out every city that offers resistance such as Fallujah. Occupy it and set up a secure border and then train the new Iraqi army. Not this crap we are doing now.

[pk500]

The fool? Who is to say. What if 9/11 happened on any other presidents watch? Would things be done differently? Would the same lies not be told? The only fool (or I prefer misguided) IMHO is the one who thinks that the President alone decides such fate. Power corrupts but is not limited to those weilding what is publicly percieved the highest power.

Well said. Bush isn't the only charlatan in this Administration. Rove and Rumsfeld also sprout immediately to mind as power-hungry, scumbag deceit dealers of the highest order.

As for how it would have been handled under another President's watch, that's a hypothetical. I prefer to deal in reality, and I don't like the reality of Bush's handling of this pre-emptive war one bit, the first pre-emptive war in American history.

That will be a heavy albatross that will bury Bush on the depth chart of American presidential history if Iraq continues to steer toward a Vietnam-like quagmire.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Now that we are in it, polls really don't mean $hit. PK you know as well I do we can't just pull out and come home. The worst of mankind is trolling over there waiting for us to go. More American kids would be right back there in a few years.

True. But with respect to the mission that you and your brothers in arms have executed so bravely, Jack-diggity, we never should have went in the first place.

And if we're going to be there, can there be a cohesive strategy for victory? I keep hearing about "rebuilding" and "democracy" and all this other bullsh*t.

This is a WAR, people. The "Mission Accomplished" sign may have hung behind Bush on the carrier, but we're still at war in Iraq. Bush wants us to believe that our primary goal is rebuilding Iraq, writing an American-like constitution for a tribal society that doesn't want a Western government, etc., etc.

Horsesh*t. You're right, Jack: Our primary goal should be to eliminate the insurgency with whatever means necessary if we're going to stay there.

We haven't won the war, so how the f*ck can we wage the peace that Bush claims isn't that far away?

Take care,
PK

[Jackdog]

True. But with respect to the mission that you and your brothers in arms have executed so bravely, Jack-diggity, we never should have went in the first place.

Thanks brother. As you know soldiers follow the orders of their leaders. I have been involved with a few things I personally would have taken a pass on. But that's the way the game has always been played. It's amazing we have people that volunteer to play it considering what politics have done to our military history the past 50 years.

And if we're going to be there, can there be a cohesive strategy for victory? I keep hearing about "rebuilding" and "democracy" and all this other bullsh*t.

If the politicians would stay out of it you would get your wish. The first people that want out of the $hit are the ones that are in it. If this war was waged buy those folks our first and last trip to Iraq would have been during Desert Storm .

Horsesh*t. You're right, Jack: Our primary goal should be to eliminate the insurgency with whatever means necessary if we're going to stay there.

See my last response.

By the way .....Nice avatar you got there PK.

[pk500]

By the way .....Nice avatar you got there PK.

Suck my f*cking dick, brother. But I know you want a meal, not a snack.

Go to bed, man: It's 4 a.m. in La Maddalena!

Take care,
PK

[JackB1]

The past few Presidents have cared more about cash than their own country's security.

are u saying Bush is different and cares more about our security than his own cash? if so, that would be the funniest thing I think I ever read.

[JackB1]

Whatever makes you sleep better at night, JackB...watch out for those black helicopters, though...I think they're on to you...

Sorry, but to come to the conclusion that this war isn't about the oil, on some level, because of the rising gas prices is just a rediculous statement.
One has nothing to do with the other. I guess it makes you sleep better at night to think that the man you voted for took us to war for what he thought were "noble reasons". Keep drinking the kool-aid....

[Teal]

BTW...who played you in 'Black Hawk Down'?

Whoever was the best looking black guy.

...and the one that was packin' the most heat, right?

[Teal]

Clinton damage control must be at top alert... I guess you guys have a signal like batman?

[Teal]

Clinton and Bush are both liars. But Clinton lied about oral sex; Bush lied about reasons for war.

Clinton's lies killed no one, except for maybe Vince Foster and Ron Brown. The death toll of Bush's lies is 1,800 and climbing.

Take care,
PK

Don't forget 19 of America's finest in Somolia, 17 on the Cole...

[Teal]

Whatever makes you sleep better at night, JackB...watch out for those black helicopters, though...I think they're on to you...

Sorry, but to come to the conclusion that this war isn't about the oil, on some level, because of the rising gas prices is just a rediculous statement.
One has nothing to do with the other. I guess it makes you sleep better at night to think that the man you voted for took us to war for what he thought were "noble reasons". Keep drinking the kool-aid....

Revenge for the assassination attempt on dear ol' dad? I could live with that. Oil? That's just hysteria talking...but I digress...

I'm with PK and Jack on this one...give control to the heavy hitters and let 'em pummel the hell out of them, get this damn thing over with, and get our boys back home...

[Zlax45]

How about Friday's attack on a US Naval Ship in Jordan? Why is this not being covered more? Because it was not a success? Probably but it shows you that Bin Laden's groups can strike at anytime and the world has nto become safer since we invaded Iraq. Remember, the Government of our country went in front of the UN and told them that the Iraqi's had chemical of mass destruction and mobile chemcial labs. I wonder where these labs are now?

[blueduke]

How about Friday's attack on a US Naval Ship in Jordan? Why is this not being covered more? Because it was not a success? Probably but it shows you that Bin Laden's groups can strike at anytime and the world has nto become safer since we invaded Iraq. Remember, the Government of our country went in front of the UN and told them that the Iraqi's had chemical of mass destruction and mobile chemcial labs. I wonder where these labs are now?

Maybe this has something to do with it............

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/wmd2.html

Bush made his mistake when he wasted weeks begging for the UN's "support"
when he should have done what Ronald Reagan did to Libya.......go in unannounced and do your business. Quaddafhi took a 13 year vacation from his "I hate America" hijinx when 8 bombers leveled his "loveshack" and killed a few family members (along with some concubines, I believe). After our invasion of Iraq he quickly dismantled his wmd projects started up during Slick Willie's tenure and wasn't bashful about telling us about it

[spooky157]

How about Friday's attack on a US Naval Ship in Jordan? Why is this not being covered more? Because it was not a success? Probably but it shows you that Bin Laden's groups can strike at anytime and the world has nto become safer since we invaded Iraq. Remember, the Government of our country went in front of the UN and told them that the Iraqi's had chemical of mass destruction and mobile chemcial labs. I wonder where these labs are now?

Maybe this has something to do with it............

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/wmd2.html

Bush made his mistake when he wasted weeks begging for the UN's "support"
when he should have done what Ronald Reagan did to Libya.......go in unannounced and do your business. Quaddafhi took a 13 year vacation from his "I hate America" hijinx when 8 bombers leveled his "loveshack" and killed a few family members (along with some concubines, I believe). After our invasion of Iraq he quickly dismantled his wmd projects started up during Slick Willie's tenure and wasn't bashful about telling us about it

World Tribune? That's more like a blog than a news source.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content?0 ... lk_mcgrath


"In fact, the World Tribune is not published in the United Kingdom, nor is it, to be precise, a newspaper. It is a Web site produced, more or less as a hobby, in Falls Church, Virginia, and is dedicated to the notion, as its mission statement explains, that “there is a market for news of the world and not just news of the weird.” (Nonetheless, the site includes a prominent feature, Cosmic Tribune, with an extraterrestrial focus, and it links to a Mafia journal called Gang Land News.) Its editor and publisher, Robert Morton, is an assistant managing editor at the Washington Times and a former “corporate editor” for News World Communications, the Times’ owner and the publishing arm of the Unification Church, led by the Reverend Sun Myung Moon. (Morton and his wife, Choon Boon, are themselves followers of the Reverend Moon.)"

[Jackdog]

The past few Presidents have cared more about cash than their own country's security.

are u saying Bush is different and cares more about our security than his own cash? if so, that would be the funniest thing I think I ever read.

Where did you read that in any of my posts ?

Damn man I wish you could read and comprehend as fast as you picked up playing the guitar. I don't ride Bush's cock the way you milk Clintons.

This is just for you Jack:

I HATE POLITICIANS. I HATE POLITICS. I DIDN'T VOTE FOR BUSH. I AM A LIBERTARIAN. I DON'T TRUST BUSH. I HATE LEFT AND RIGHT WING ZEALOTS THAT TAKE TALK RADIO OR A FATASS FILMMAKERS OPINIONS FOR FACT. I SERVED MY COUNTRY FOR 20+ YEARS AND I ONLY CARE ABOUT THE SOLDIERS THAT DO THE SAME. THEY WERE SENT ON A MISSION AND I WANT THEM TO COMPLETE IT CORRECTLY AND COME HOME ASAP.

[Jackdog]

By the way .....Nice avatar you got there PK.

Suck my f*cking dick, brother. But I know you want a meal, not a snack.

Go to bed, man: It's 4 a.m. in La Maddalena!

Take care,
PK

You know what my sick arse does at 4.

[Brando70]

I agree. Both sides of the asle voted for the war in Iraq. If they say they didn't know the facts and were lied to it's on them. They should have never voted yes to a war without getting off their fat asses and checking the facts for themselves.

Jackdog, I have to disagree with you there. The intelligence organization of our government is supposed to be as apolitical as possible, so that when the CIA or FBI or NSA present information to a group like the White House or Congressional intelligence committee, it's not being slanted by the presumptions or biases of whatever group is in power. I think that was the assumption that was made by Congress. And many of them assumed Iraq had WMD, because that's what the intelligence that was presented was saying. What they didn't know was how that intelligence was presented, and I think that's what's pissed a lot of people off, that everything that would support attacking Iraq was pushed forward, with dissenting information tucked away.

Consequently, it appears we acted against a rogue state that had the least advanced program for WMD. It's too late to do anything about North Korea, and probably will also be too late to do anything about Iran by the time we leave Iraq. Regardless of your stance on whether Iraq was justified or on domestic politics, that should really bother people.

[JackB1]

[quote="JackDog"]

I HATE POLITICIANS.
>>so do I....at least most of em. seems like we are always left with trying to pick the lessor of 2 evils.

I HATE POLITICS.
>>I don't hate politics per se, I hate how it caters to the rich and powerful. Washington is just a big "boys club".

I DIDN'T VOTE FOR BUSH.
>>>neither did I. I want a President the whole world can look up to and respect. WHo was the last President like that? hmmmm.

I AM A LIBERTARIAN. I DON'T TRUST BUSH.
>>>how can anybody? he covers all his tracks and hides evidence against him. he's in bed with the Saudi's and he lies and tries to brainwash his own country. If I hear "9/11" mentioned along with the Iraq War one more time, it will be thousands too many.

I HATE LEFT AND RIGHT WING ZEALOTS THAT TAKE TALK RADIO OR A FATASS FILMMAKERS OPINIONS FOR FACT.
>>>I hate the fact that things get labeled and stereotyped into 2 large groups.....what if you are anti abortion but pro separation of church and state....which side are you on?

I SERVED MY COUNTRY FOR 20+ YEARS AND I ONLY CARE ABOUT THE SOLDIERS THAT DO THE SAME.
>>>unfortunately the folks in charge of these soldiers couldn't give a rat's ass about them or thier families. Are they really "serving this country" or are they just pawns carrying out orders to benefit other people's agendas. I know their intentions are to "serve our country", but it's unfortunate that it doesn't end up that way.

THEY WERE SENT ON A MISSION AND I WANT THEM TO COMPLETE IT CORRECTLY AND COME HOME ASAP.
>>so do I. but unfortunately again, the folks in charge dont care about completing it correctly or quickly or they would have had some plan to do so. Also, this "mission" changes from month to month as to what the objectives are. That is a huge problem in itself. Bush already thought we were done by proclaming to the world "Mission Accomplished"!!!??? If the commander in chief doesn't know what the mission is or when it's over, who decides when it's really "over"?

[blueduke]

"In fact, the World Tribune is not published in the United Kingdom, nor is it, to be precise, a newspaper.......yada yada

I wouldn't call cnn much of a news source either (though if a link doesn't come from there or the NYT it seems to get quickly dismissed around here).....

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0403/s ... 041503.asp

Before this thread was hijacked it was more or less about what Clinton knew and when he knew it re: Bin Laden. Maybe Sandy Berger can tell us...............


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126249,00.html

He (Saddam) used them on his own people (wmds). How quickly he discarded them is anyone's guess but before he ran for prez even our "war hero" John Kerry claimed he had them. My main point was Bush blew it by waiting for the UN to give permission (something he never got) to go in. By waiting Bush gave him plenty of time to send those things somewhere else. IMO an attack much like Reagan ordered against Libya (followed by an invasion with alot more troops than we sent) would have been better.