NBA Playoffs, 2005

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:13 am

I'm as annoyed with the Ginobili flopping bit as anybody but let's not overstate things. The guy is a fantastic player. Sure, he gets some calls to go his way out of his antics, but it's not a game-changing factor unless his opponents let him in their heads (which the Pistons did in games 1 and 2).

The Pistons got their share of iffy calls against them last night in the 3rd quarter. The difference is they kept their traps shut this time and went back to work (aside from one 'Shee meltdown that got him a seat on the bench).

In any case, this was the kind of win Detroit absolutely needed. They couldn't just eek one out. They had to go out and take it and they did. The odds are still against them in the series, but if they bring that kind of effort to the remaining games and lose then so be it.
---Todd

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:19 pm

anchester wrote:what a difference home cooking makes for the pistons....the refs make such a huge impact in the game. Detroit is allowed to play D at home. Ginobili was not getting the calls as he drove to the basket (but he did get a couple of bogus charges).

Ginobili would be the kind of guy who would not be good in streetball. He is very smart and knows how to work the refs. But a strong player could shut him down in streetball or if the refs decide not to call everything (like in tonights game).

Too bad they are not playing streetball. You could say that Ben Wallace is not the kind of guy that would be good at HORSE. What's the point, other than to further prove your bias.

Talk about bogus charging calls. I saw the first half of the game last night, and Ben Wallace had a mightly fine flop in the 1st quarter. Watching the relplay, you can see him actually leap backwards as soon as contact was made. Please do not act as if Manu is the only one who tries to get calls in the NBA.

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:56 pm

matthewk wrote:You could say that Ben Wallace is not the kind of guy that would be good at HORSE. What's the point, other than to further prove your bias.

The image of Wallace playing HORSE is just not right.

Talk about bogus charging calls. I saw the first half of the game last night, and Ben Wallace had a mightly fine flop in the 1st quarter. Watching the relplay, you can see him actually leap backwards as soon as contact was made. Please do not act as if Manu is the only one who tries to get calls in the NBA.

Yeah, that was pretty bad. But that doesn't make Ben Wallace like Manu Ginobili any more than Duncan getting T'd up last night makes him Rasheed Wallace.

anchester · Post by **anchester** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:06 pm

ok I admit it. I don't like ginobili. I know I just shocked all of you. I root against him and his team. It seems like almost every year there is someone team in the finals that is an expert of flopping. I remember in the old utah/jerry sloan days when karl malone and stockton would constantly flop. But it works. Cmon. Karl malone flopping is like me beating andre the giant in arm wrestling. Malone couldn't jump to he would always iniatiate contact inside, flail, and get calls.

Vlade Divac is another good example. Part of the US olympic team debacle was b/c our team was a bunch of tough althletes and no floppers (and no shooters). The other, less athletic foreign teams would always flop, get the sympathy calls, and get our players angry and out of their games. Of course, those international refs are worse than the NBA refs and there is an international desire to see Big ole USA fail.

It just seems that the abilty to get calls is almost as important as pure skill level.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:11 pm

anchester wrote: Part of the US olympic team debacle was b/c our team was a bunch of tough althletes and no floppers (and no shooters). The other, less athletic foreign teams would always flop, get the sympathy calls, and get our players angry and out of their games. Of course, those international refs are worse than the NBA refs and there is an international desire to see Big ole USA fail.

It just seems that the abilty to get calls is almost as important as pure skill level.

ROFL!!!

Give me a break, I'm not even gonna waste my time with this one.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:26 pm

jLp vAkEr0 wrote:ROFL!!!

Give me a break, I'm not even gonna waste my time with this one.

Umm...too late.

anchester · Post by **anchester** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:43 am

Please respond. I seriously don't know what you are talking about. Is it that the US team had no "skills", no team play, and only athletic ability. I am not sure what is so laughable.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:16 pm

anchester wrote:Part of the US olympic team debacle was b/c our team was a bunch of tough althletes and no floppers (and no shooters). The other, less athletic foreign teams would always flop, get the sympathy calls, and get our players angry and out of their games. Of course, those international refs are worse than the NBA refs and there is an international desire to see Big ole USA fail.

No, the debacle was because the US team was made up of a bunch of INDIVIDUALS who lost to better TEAMS.

It just seems that the abilty to get calls is almost as important as pure skill level.

Are you back to talking about the NBA with this one? Sure sounds like it.

You make it sound like the only floppers are foreign players. What a joke. Remmber Stockton/Malone, Reggie Miller, etc... American players perfected flopping way before there were more than a handful of foreign players in the NBA.

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:28 pm

anchester wrote:ok I admit it. I don't like ginobili. I know I just shocked all of you. I root against him and his team. It seems like almost every year there is someone team in the finals that is an expert of flopping. I remember in the old utah/jerry sloan days when karl malone and stockton would constantly flop. But it works. Cmon. Karl malone flopping is like me beating andre the giant in arm wrestling. Malone couldn't jump to he would always iniatiate contact inside, flail, and get calls.

How many rings do Karl Malone have? Oh that's right, none. How many times did he get to the finals? I can only remember one and he was standing around while MJ was running around him in circles. Maybe he should have flopped when MJ stole the ball.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:25 pm

The reason why we've been losing in international ball isn't because Euro Players are flopping although it's certainly correct that Euro players tend to be "softer" in basketball terms than American players.

The reason is because we haven't been picking players as a complete team, we pick them based on marketing concerns and NBA hype. Although, the best basketball by far is still played in America, the world has progressed enough so that we simply can't just throw out talent on the floor that doesn't complement each other.

There is no doubt in my mind that most good NBA teams and certainly a smartly chosen Olympic squad would run through most international squads with ease but until we decide to fill these squads with a balanced assortment of skills with doesn't mean bringing over only the most flashy dunkers and whoever happens to be hot at the moment. Their is nothing wrong for example with having complementary players like Bruce Bowen on an Olympic squad who would do all the dirty work and play defense or true points guards, or the best mid-range shooters in the game since you're going to have enough scorers anyway. But the NBA so far has only paid lip service to these notions but then fills up the squad with too many players log-jammed at certain positions who all have the same skillset.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:00 am

Now that was some impressive Pistons basketball. That may have been the best exhibition of defensive execution and intensity I've ever seen in a game of basketball. If they play even close to that level of intensity for the rest of the series, then they most definitely have a great shot at this thing. This Pistons squad of the last couple of years is one of the best big game teams in a number of years. Even though each game has been a blowout I'm pretty happy with an even series.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:08 am

Weaver2005 wrote: I still wouldn't be surprised if this series is tied 2-2 later this week . You can't count the pistons out especially at home.

The annual Parker/Ginobli disappearing act is why the pistons are back in this. Looks like this will go 7.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:27 am

This is some conspiracy sh*t.

The Spurs blow out the Pistons twice. Pistons blow out the Spurs twice. WTF?

WillHunting · Post by **WillHunting** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:12 am

When are we going to get a game where both teams show up?

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:31 am

When the series returns to San Antonio it is all over for the Pistons. The Spurs have been a much better team at home. The Pistons are not nearly as good on the road.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 1:58 am

No predictions, no preferences, no comments really other than I'd like to see at least one competitive game in this series. It's been just barely borderline watchable so far. Where's Charles Barkley when you need him?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:03 am

sfz_T-car wrote:No predictions, no preferences, no comments really other than I'd like to see at least one competitive game in this series. It's been just barely borderline watchable so far. Where's Charles Barkley when you need him?

This series was beyond watchable before it even started. I catch a few min. of each game and I'm bored to tears.

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:28 am

TRI wrote:When the series returns to San Antonio it is all over for the Pistons. The Spurs have been a much better team at home. The Pistons are not nearly as good on the road.

Uh. Well, not to split hairs but the Pistons had the second best road record in the Eastern Conference this season. Granted that's only 22-19 -nothing great- but they're still as good a road playoff team as anyone in the league despite the game 1 and 2 debacles in this year's Finals.

Two years ago -when down 3-1 to Orlando in the first round- they won two games on the road in winning that series. They staved off elimination last year against New Jersey in game 6 on the road. They beat Indiana twice on the road this year, including the closeout of Game 6. They beat Miami twice in Miami, including Game 7. Miami injuries or no, road teams win Game 7s about as often as Paris Hilton is seen fully dressed. Oh and they are something like 10-0 in closeout games the last three seasons.

I'm not saying who's going to win the series. I think the Pistons take Game 5, but after that I haven't the foggiest what to expect. But if the Spurs do take the series it ain't just gonna be as simple as they were the home team.
---Todd

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:45 am

The pistons are just a tough team. It's hard to count them out when it's a clutch game on the road. They're probably the closest thing to the 80s celtics i've seen since then. Those kind of teams just win those big games on the road when it matters.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:46 am

sfz_T-car wrote:No predictions, no preferences, no comments really other than I'd like to see at least one competitive game in this series.

With 33.8 and a tied score, you got your wish

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:07 am

Reggie who?

Big Shot Rob is the man!

Damn!

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:24 am

reeche wrote:
sfz_T-car wrote:No predictions, no preferences, no comments really other than I'd like to see at least one competitive game in this series.
With 33.8 and a tied score, you got your wish

Yeah. I switched on the game w/ about 3 min left in regulation and Horry stepping to the line. It sort of made up for the previous four games.

Here's my fathers day story. When they showed the shot of Vinnie Johnson sitting in the stands late in the 4th quarter, I told my daughter that "The Microwave" was one of the all-time great sports nicknames. She asked me for an example of what a bad sports nickname was and I came up with "Big Shot Bob"

He made me look like an idiot in my children's eyes (again)

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:35 am

sfz_T-car wrote:I told my daughter that "The Microwave" was one of the all-time great sports nicknames. She asked me for an example of what a bad sports nickname was and I came up with "Big Shot Bob"

Lol. On that I agree with you on. We use to have classics like The Iceman, Dr. J, Magic, Pistol Pete, Chocoloate Thunder, The Dream.

Now we get names like Vinsanity, or Flash.

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:44 am

The hat is off the Horry and the Spurs, they earned that one and won a game I didn't think they had in 'em. Will be interesting to see if Detroit can defy expectations yet again and win two games on the road, but I'm not holding my breath.

God that was depressing. My dreams last night were filled with visions of Sheed leaving Horry wide-open so he could double Ginobili in the corner. Dammit, dammit, dammit to hell.

---Todd

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:34 am

ubrakto wrote:The hat is off the Horry and the Spurs, they earned that one and won a game I didn't think they had in 'em. Will be interesting to see if Detroit can defy expectations yet again and win two games on the road, but I'm not holding my breath.

God that was depressing. My dreams last night were filled with visions of Sheed leaving Horry wide-open so he could double Ginobili in the corner. Dammit, dammit, dammit to hell.
---Todd

Well I admit I'd be shocked if the Spurs don't close it out in Game 6. Seems like the perfect opportunity as the Pistons have to be reeling knowing they let their best chance slip by. It was a nice run for the Pistons and they'll still be competitive and in the hunt next year. Casual fans tend to not like the Pistons style of basketball but I think in a way it's elegant and very appealing because it's so blue collar and balanced. When Chauncey Billups and Ben Wallace are the stars of your squad something about that brings a smile to my face and makes me like the Pistons more than I should.

They certainly had me believing in parts of Game 5 that a repeat was in the making. The Spurs just have a little bit too much offense versus the Pistons. The nice thing about the NBA Finals is that imo you tend to have far fewer fluky champions than in other sports so the Spurs should seal the deal in the next one.....although part of me at least wishes, the Pistons somehow found a way to extend it to 7.