Leebo33 wrote:I've always heard great things about the Cardinals' fans and how great it is to see a game in STL even as a visiting fan. I certainly don't get that feeling by reading this board. I didn't know Cardinals' fans were so arrogant. It's actually changed the way I view the Cards.
Leebo33 wrote:I've always heard great things about the Cardinals' fans and how great it is to see a game in STL even as a visiting fan. I certainly don't get that feeling by reading this board. I didn't know Cardinals' fans were so arrogant. It's actually changed the way I view the Cards.
Yeah, like winning 106 games will get them anywhere.
Hasn't the a wild card team won like the last 3 World Series?
Leebo33 wrote:I've always heard great things about the Cardinals' fans and how great it is to see a game in STL even as a visiting fan. I certainly don't get that feeling by reading this board. I didn't know Cardinals' fans were so arrogant. It's actually changed the way I view the Cards.
Yeah, like winning 106 games will get them anywhere.
Hasn't the a wild card team won like the last 3 World Series?
C'mon on now. We're not all that way Leebo. You're actually letting two or three fans dictate your feelings about the overall fan base? That's not arrogance. That's ignorance.
Edit: If I used your rationale, then all Eagle fans are a**holes for cheering when Michael Irvin lay on the field motionless a few years ago. However, I don't believe that to be true of all Eagle fans.
Last edited by sportdan30 on Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sportdan30 wrote:C'mon on now. We're not all that way Leebo. You're actually letting two or three fans dictate your feelings about the overall fan base? That's not arrogance. That's ignorance.
Edit: If I used your rationale, then all Eagle fans are a**holes for cheering when Michael Irvin lay on the field motionless a few years ago. However, I don't believe that to be true of all Eagle fans.
It's not ignorance. About half of the Cardinals fans I "know" are arrogant. How else am I supposed to judge? Of course I don't think *all* Cardinals fans are arrogant. I should have been more clear. I didn't know that a half to a third are arrogant
I do believe that most Eagles fans are a**holes I kid, I kid.
sportdan30 wrote:C'mon on now. We're not all that way Leebo. You're actually letting two or three fans dictate your feelings about the overall fan base? That's not arrogance. That's ignorance.
Edit: If I used your rationale, then all Eagle fans are a**holes for cheering when Michael Irvin lay on the field motionless a few years ago. However, I don't believe that to be true of all Eagle fans.
Except that all Eagles fans are assholes. I keed, I keed, my best friend is an Eagle fan and has been taking my money lately in our annual Eagles/Bears season bet.
The Cards clearly appear to be the best team in the NL. I will not do something as stupid as talk smack about them, especially this early in the season. But dropping your pants and bending over so you can trumpet how many games your team is "on pace" to win is just begging for divine retribution.
Yeah, like winning 106 games will get them anywhere.
You'd think that those fans would realize that winning a ton of games in a weak division isn't all that impressive and doesn't really mean a championship.
Interestingly enough, only 4 100 win teams have won the World Series in the past 25 years. Only 4 teams that led the NL in wins have won it in that time span as well. In fact, the Cardinals led the NL 4 times in that span and didn't win it all in those years.
The Cardinals are easily the class of the NL Central, but how much does that really tell us about them? I was glad to see them beat Boston a couple of times to improve thier record outside of the division to over .500.
Last edited by Leebo33 on Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That was not a stupid post, it was appropriate. It demonstrates how stupid it is to say you're team has wrapped everything up in may....MAY!
As for most card fans, 99 percent of the ones I know are good fans. It's just SOME of the ones on here who are against the norm. Most of these exceptions are probably bandwagon fans that never followed the team until last year. Thats why they post articles from so called 'experts' because they cannot rely on themselves for a straight opinion since they probably just got on the bandwagon (I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone specifically)
And I agree w/ Leebo, the cards have a hard time beating good teams this year. But it's only June and unlike some of the bandwagon card fans on his board, I know it's early.
The Cards will probably cruise to another easy central title because the rest of the division is crumbling, but where is that going to leave them? They probably won't make any significant moves because their regular season is going so well and they'll take their mediocre pitching staff and subpar bullpen into the playoffs for a quick exit.
Wow, quoting a "so-called-expert" that is the creator of a baseball sim on a sports gaming board in thread about predictions for this season is quite the offense. I should feel ashamed.
Bandwagon? Been a Cardinal fan for life. Like most of the fans in St. Louis, I was raised by KMOX on the history of baseball. No better teacher than Jack Buck.
The Cardinal fans have talked about the playoffs, because we think the team should win a division that is as weak as ours. I think the team is capable of, and has been playing up to that standard, of winning 105 games. I never said that meant we would stroll through the playoffs. I said that meant that we should make the playoffs. Crucify me!
When someone suggests that the Cardinals are overrated, and they just had career years last seaosn, I point out that it's not true, that they have been predicted to do just what they have done so far this season statistically. The horror!
Taunting fans in May about counting chickens, because the Cubs just had a seven game win streak in May is the heighth of stupidity. Thge only reason I keep bringing up the Cardinals current pace, is because of the asinine arguments put up by to try and debunk that possibility.
Rivalries are fun. You get a sense of joy every time the Cardinals lose to a team with winning record, and I got a kick out of your pain reading about the serious ass-whupping the Cardinals put on the Red Sox. The difference is, I'm rooting for the Cardinals, and you are rooting for everyone they play.
It's pretty obvious (to me at least) that the Cardinals are the class of the NL this year...but I don't think they'll make the World Series, let alone win it. How does that work? Well, I think that like the Yankees of the past few years, they are built for success over the course of a long season, not the playoffs. Running into a team like Florida in the playoffs will be tough for them to overcome because they won't have one favorable pitching matchup in that series. They have a #1 starter that absolutely fell off the table after the break last year and then a bunch of middle of the rotation guys. That is not a rotation built for postseason success.
skidmark wrote:The Cards will probably cruise to another easy central title because the rest of the division is crumbling, but where is that going to leave them? They probably won't make any significant moves because their regular season is going so well and they'll take their mediocre pitching staff and subpar bullpen into the playoffs for a quick exit.
If they do that, it would be a huge mistake. I expect Jocketty to make a deal in July. The Cardinals are playing as though this is their last season. In all likelihhod, their entire OF is gone. They will need to rebuild.
If you are right, and they stand pat, it will hurt their post-season chances a lot. I don't think they are where they need to be for a post season run, yet.
Badger_Fan wrote:It's pretty obvious (to me at least) that the Cardinals are the class of the NL this year...but I don't think they'll make the World Series, let alone win it. How does that work? Well, I think that like the Yankees of the past few years, they are built for success over the course of a long season, not the playoffs.
And that is precisely the Braves problem...they have consistently had one of the best teams through the course of a season, but in the playoffs...they just can't hang (except for '95 of course). The Cardinals are VERY similar to most of the Braves teams throughout the 90's...got some good hitters, a few good starters (but not two or three dominating ones), and a shaky bullpen. It's a recipe for postseason failure as I am now accustomed to.
Badger_Fan wrote:It's pretty obvious (to me at least) that the Cardinals are the class of the NL this year...but I don't think they'll make the World Series, let alone win it. How does that work? Well, I think that like the Yankees of the past few years, they are built for success over the course of a long season, not the playoffs.
And that is precisely the Braves problem...they have consistently had one of the best teams through the course of a season, but in the playoffs...they just can't hang (except for '95 of course). The Cardinals are VERY similar to most of the Braves teams throughout the 90's...got some good hitters, a few good starters (but not two or three dominating ones), and a shaky bullpen. It's a recipe for postseason failure as I am now accustomed to.
That's why I'm so excited about the Twins this year. They have a good deep rotation, a great bullpen, and just enough hitting to be a serious threat in the postseason.
Badger_Fan wrote:It's pretty obvious (to me at least) that the Cardinals are the class of the NL this year...but I don't think they'll make the World Series, let alone win it. How does that work? Well, I think that like the Yankees of the past few years, they are built for success over the course of a long season, not the playoffs.
And that is precisely the Braves problem...they have consistently had one of the best teams through the course of a season, but in the playoffs...they just can't hang (except for '95 of course). The Cardinals are VERY similar to most of the Braves teams throughout the 90's...got some good hitters, a few good starters (but not two or three dominating ones), and a shaky bullpen. It's a recipe for postseason failure as I am now accustomed to.
That's why I'm so excited about the Twins this year. They have a good deep rotation, a great bullpen, and just enough hitting to be a serious threat in the postseason.
The problem with that is that a deep rotation doesn't get you sh*t...that's what I'm trying to say. You need two absolutely dominating, shut down pitchers to do that. You've got Santana and a bunch of 3-5 starters. That will not win in the post season. The Braves have always been deep when it comes to their rotation...they just never had two lights out starters. Smoltz has been their only consistent postseason performer...why do you think he was so hell-bent on getting back in the rotation after the current starters could never get him a lead late in the game. Hell, I think he only pitched twice in the Houston series last year.
This year at least the Braves have Hudson and Smoltz (and Davies, holy crap that 21 year old is good). They have a chance to be something special if they can get Chipper back and actually make it to the playoffs. I realize that is going to be a daunting task this year that's for sure. One thing I can bet you, is that the Mets or the Phillies will not win the division...that I can pretty much guarantee.
Disclaimer:
Bookmarked page for future crow consumption if hell freezes over.
Sully wrote:Just like we don't have to worry about the Braves winning the World Series. It's the freakin' Braves!
'95 baby...only 15 years more recent than the Phillies last championship. Were you even alive in 1980? LOL.
Actually, yes.
I was born in 1979. I remember that World Series title quite well.
13 straight years in the playoffs, and 1 title...that equates to .077.
Isn't that Furcal's batting average?
Ok, I'm done. Yes, I'm jealous. While the Braves have only won 1 title during their run of 13 straight divisional crowns, I would give anything for the Phillies to be in that position.
Sully wrote:13 straight years in the playoffs, and 1 title...that equates to .077.
I love that arguement...
All I know is that .077 is a hellova lot better than 90% of the teams in MLB have done in the past 13 years. They all have big fat zeros in that column.
I understand everyone's arguement...but isn't it nice to know that your team at least has a shot to win it every year...and without paying 150 to 200 million for that shot. The Braves payroll has went down significantly in the past few years, and yet people still count them out. It's a true testament to Bobby Cox and Leo Mazzone's teaching and John Scheurholz' scouting. Not many teams can say that...in fact, no other team can say that except maybe the Twins.
MizzouRah wrote:
and Leebo, I could care less how you perseive the Cardinal fans..
Hell, you didn't have to make a special post to say that. It was apparent when you decided to break out the broom after a pivotal three game sweep against a team that hasn't had a winning season in 12 years. All that just because I had the audacity to point out that there is still a lot of season left.
dbdynsty25 wrote:
And that is precisely the Braves problem...they have consistently had one of the best teams through the course of a season, but in the playoffs...they just can't hang (except for '95 of course). The Cardinals are VERY similar to most of the Braves teams throughout the 90's...got some good hitters, a few good starters (but not two or three dominating ones), and a shaky bullpen. It's a recipe for postseason failure as I am now accustomed to.
I kind of agree, but there aren't any teams in the AL right now that have that kind of a rotation. Right now, the Twins, with Santana/Radke/Silva/Loshe/Mays would have the best rotation in the playoffs. The Orioles don't have it. The Red Sox don't. The Yankees could but they all suck right now and I'm not sure that Johnson is going to get his stuff back to where it needs to be to dominate. The White Sox have about three or four #2s right now but not a true ace (they'll still fall back to the pack). Nobody out west does either. It's not like the NL where you have the Braves and the Marlins with devastating combos at the top of a rotation.
That's why I'm so excited about the Twins this year. They have a good deep rotation, a great bullpen, and just enough hitting to be a serious threat in the postseason.
The problem with that is that a deep rotation doesn't get you sh*t...that's what I'm trying to say. You need two absolutely dominating, shut down pitchers to do that. You've got Santana and a bunch of 3-5 starters. That will not win in the post season. The Braves have always been deep when it comes to their rotation...they just never had two lights out starters. Smoltz has been their only consistent postseason performer...why do you think he was so hell-bent on getting back in the rotation after the current starters could never get him a lead late in the game. Hell, I think he only pitched twice in the Houston series last year.
This year at least the Braves have Hudson and Smoltz (and Davies, holy crap that 21 year old is good). They have a chance to be something special if they can get Chipper back and actually make it to the playoffs. I realize that is going to be a daunting task this year that's for sure. One thing I can bet you, is that the Mets or the Phillies will not win the division...that I can pretty much guarantee.
Disclaimer:
Bookmarked page for future crow consumption if hell freezes over.
