NBA Playoffs, 2005

[reeche]

Very happy. The two best basketball "teams" made it as usual. The series will be very defensive but that doesn't faze me although casual basketball fans won't enjoy it. I've never much cared for casual basketball fans anyway.

So those of use who'd prefer a faster paced, offensive games are just "casual fans" now?

I did not say that you personally were a casual fan. I was more making the point, that the casual average NBA fan generally speaking likes offense more than defense as it is easy to appreciate 120 point games and super dunks. Defense and teamplay conversly are often harder skills for the casual fan to discern or appreciate. I personally don't have a preference toward high scoring versus low scoring myself. I can appreciate the Spurs, and the Pistons for what they do well, just as I appreciate the Suns, or some other high tempo team. These were obviously the two most well rounded teams in basketball and I always enjoy a finals match-up when you end up with two pretty good teams in there and it isn't a complete mismatch.

[sfz_T-car]

Until a team proves they can win a championship with an uptempo game, we're going to see teams grind it out through the playoffs. We got to watch Phoenix, Dallas, Seattle, etc. play for 5 months.

Detroit deserved to win tonight. They made the plays when they had to. I think it sets up a better finals because the Pistons come in relatively healthy with no ready made excuses. There are some intriguing matchups against SA. It may not be pretty but it'll be interesting to watch.

Say goodbye to Hack-a-Shaq, Keon Dooling and Damon Jones. The Heat made it a long way on the backs of their two stars. With a couple of upgraded role players, they could make it further next year provided that Shaq's body holds up.

[reeche]

With a couple of upgraded role players, they could make it further next year provided that Shaq's body holds up.

That's what the Lakers thought. I don't think Shaq isn't capable of attempting to play a full season and take a team to a title anymore. He might as well fake an injury and take extended time off during the season to be physically capable of making a real playoff run. Wade is great but those role players on the Heat are pretty poor. I'd think the Pistons are good enough to continue handling (if winning in 7 can be considered "handling") any Shaq led team in the upcoming years.

[sfz_T-car]

True but the Lakers made it to the Finals with an arguably better supporting cast even accounting for the remains of Karl Malone.

Eddie Jones is entering the player option year of his ridiculous Charlotte contract. He and Shaq are eating up all the cap. I'm not a capologist but the Heat need to find a way to move his final year to a team looking to clear cap room for a 2007 run. Shaq's window could close at any time and the Heat are going to have to commit big dollars to Wade sooner than later.

Otherwise, the Heat have a bunch of league minimum guys. Doleac is the only guy other than Eddie who looks overpaid. Miami got nothing out of Dorell Wright this year. It's tough drafting at the bottom of the first round but busts hurt a team like Miami more than most other top tier clubs.

[dbdynsty25]

Expiring contracts are very very valuable to teams looking to build for the 2006-2007 season. You'll see a lot of Eddie Jones rumors this summer and I look for him to be moved to a team that is expecting a lot of cap space next summer.

[wco81]

Shaq may have been injured but he just wasn't mowing through guys like he used to. More jump hooks and shots farther away from the hoop than he'd like.

It could be a combination of things, from not being healthy, not being in condition or not being allowed to play the way he used to on the Lakers.

Heat definitely needs a more physical presence at PF. Haslem did well but he was overmatched against Rasheed.

And they need more than a 3-point shooting PG. Jones got hung in the air and made a crucial turnover.

But for all this, if Wade was healthy, maybe they still pull it out.

[Brando70]

But for all this, if Wade was healthy, maybe they still pull it out.

No question there. Not to take away anything from the Pistons, who did a great job coming back to win the series, but if Wade doesn't get hurt, I don't see them winning those last two games.

However, I do think the two sharpest teams made the playoffs. They both execute well and play good, fundemental basketball. Should be a good series even if it's slower and low-scoring.

[matthewk]

Very happy. The two best basketball "teams" made it as usual. The series will be very defensive but that doesn't faze me although casual basketball fans won't enjoy it. I've never much cared for casual basketball fans anyway.

And I never cared for harcore basketball fans who think that watching 70-65 games are entertaining to watch.

This was the first game all season that I actually watched in it's entirety. Here's a "casual" fans observations:

- Shaq looked old and slow. I never saw the mighty Shaq look so vulnerable as he did last night.

- Wade is a great polayer, but all the hype was sickening. It's like every analyst has it on their agenda to convince us that he is another Jordan.

- The way fouls are called in the NBA still baffles me. This is why I usually stay away from NBA games. The calls are so random that it makes watching a game extremely frustrating.

- Does any NBA player EVER think he has commited a foul? lmost every call is followed by a close up shot of the culprit whith this "What did I do?" look on his face as he follows the ref around for the next 20 seconds pleading his case.

- I like seeing blocks, steals and good defense. I do not like seeing guys taking really bad shots an making poor decisions that in high school would get them benched.

[reeche]

Very happy. The two best basketball "teams" made it as usual. The series will be very defensive but that doesn't faze me although casual basketball fans won't enjoy it. I've never much cared for casual basketball fans anyway.

And I never cared for harcore basketball fans who think that watching 70-65 games are entertaining to watch.

This was the first game all season that I actually watched in it's entirety. Here's a "casual" fans observations:

- Shaq looked old and slow. I never saw the mighty Shaq look so vulnerable as he did last night.

- Wade is a great polayer, but all the hype was sickening. It's like every analyst has it on their agenda to convince us that he is another Jordan.

- The way fouls are called in the NBA still baffles me. This is why I usually stay away from NBA games. The calls are so random that it makes watching a game extremely frustrating.

- Does any NBA player EVER think he has commited a foul? lmost every call is followed by a close up shot of the culprit whith this "What did I do?" look on his face as he follows the ref around for the next 20 seconds pleading his case.

- I like seeing blocks, steals and good defense. I do not like seeing guys taking really bad shots an making poor decisions that in high school would get them benched.

It was nice while it lasted. No sense in arguing with someone who doesn't like a sport. I think this was the longest thread however before somebody dropped in with this sort of attitude which is definitely a good sign. As always if you don't like the sport then don't watch it. Same as me basically not posting about baseball, auto-racing, or soccer.

[matthewk]

Did I ever say that I didn't like the sport? Even though I have not watched much of it this year I still consider myself a casual fan. Oh yeah, htat's right you insulted casual fans and then b*tch about it when one of them responds.

No sense in arguing? Arguing what, my opinions? I'm asking for an argument. I saw a game last night, saw this thread, and decided to post about what I saw. I also saw your comment about not liking casual fans, so I gues I should have expected this response.

This sort of attitude? I guess because I am not a serious fan that I'm not allowed to comment on the game. Others already made reference to Shaqs condition, so that's nothing new. All of my points are observations, made from someone who doesn't watch a lot of NBA lately.

FYI, I did watch a Bucks Suns game during the season. I enjoyed watching that type of game. Go ahead, look it up using the search function and you'll find my comments I posted in one of DBs threads.

[dbdynsty25]

Matt, the comment about the Wade hype...while agree it may be sickening to hear announcers talk about it all day long...it is warranted. The guy is legit. After watching him in the final 4 a couple years ago with Marquette, I knew he was going to be a stud and when my girls team (the heat) picked him, I told her how surprised she's going to be. I'm not saying I'm prophetic or something...it was just obvious that he was something special. He may not be the next Jordan, but he is going to be a top 10 player for a LONG time.

BTW, I am pretty sick of hearing about Amare and Nash...I really hate how announcers pick a few players on each team and then jock the hell out of them...that is just really annoying no matter who's team it is, even when it's my favorite.

[reeche]

Did I ever say that I didn't like the sport? Even though I have not watched much of it this year I still consider myself a casual fan. Oh yeah, htat's right you insulted casual fans and then b*tch about it when one of them responds.

No sense in arguing? Arguing what, my opinions? I'm asking for an argument. I saw a game last night, saw this thread, and decided to post about what I saw. I also saw your comment about not liking casual fans, so I gues I should have expected this response.

This sort of attitude? I guess because I am not a serious fan that I'm not allowed to comment on the game. Others already made reference to Shaqs condition, so that's nothing new. All of my points are observations, made from someone who doesn't watch a lot of NBA lately.

FYI, I did watch a Bucks Suns game during the season. I enjoyed watching that type of game. Go ahead, look it up using the search function and you'll find my comments I posted in one of DBs threads.

You seem to find a reason to get worked up about everything which I never understand especially when a post doesn't address you by name. I basically made a half-joking comment. The half joking bit was that I don't like casual NBA fans. The non-joking part was that casual fans tend to only like high scoring offense.

Then you make a post basically attacking the NBA with 4 or 5 negative comments in a row without anything positive in the mix. Since this is a basketball thread I would expect maybe a postitive comment or two or some speculation on the finals but I suppose that is beyond the pale. You are free of course to b*tch and complain about everything. I just don't choose to take that approach myself but maybe I should. The next baseball topic I read, I think I'll enter and post that baseball in general is pretty lame for various reasons. (too few homeruns now the roids are gone, etc, etc). I think I'll do that mentioning that I'm only a casual baseball fan that watches about a game a season and then expect people to think that is cool and my views on the subject are valid.

[Brando70]

Matt, the comment about the Wade hype...while agree it may be sickening to hear announcers talk about it all day long...it is warranted. The guy is legit. After watching him in the final 4 a couple years ago with Marquette, I knew he was going to be a stud and when my girls team (the heat) picked him, I told her how surprised she's going to be. I'm not saying I'm prophetic or something...it was just obvious that he was something special. He may not be the next Jordan, but he is going to be a top 10 player for a LONG time.

My brother (who is a devoted hoops fan) and I were talking about Wade this weekend, and we both think he'll wind up being the best player in the league. As awesome as LeBron is, Wade's got an edge to his game that is reminiscent of Jordan. My bro and I were both disappointed when he didn't fall to the Bulls (although Hinrich has been great). Wade had a great season to begin with, then took it up a couple notches in the playoffs. He is a stud, as db said.

Also, a lot of people fail to realize that many of those bad shots are forced by good defense. Detroit makes teams play ugly because they give up no easy baskets. And the NBA foul plea bargaining is child's play compared to the Royal Shakespeare Company theatrics of most footie players.

Incidentally, I say Spurs in six. Good D by both teams, but I like San Antonio's execution on offense a lot better.

[matthewk]

Matt, the comment about the Wade hype...while agree it may be sickening to hear announcers talk about it all day long...it is warranted. The guy is legit. After watching him in the final 4 a couple years ago with Marquette, I knew he was going to be a stud and when my girls team (the heat) picked him, I told her how surprised she's going to be. I'm not saying I'm prophetic or something...it was just obvious that he was something special. He may not be the next Jordan, but he is going to be a top 10 player for a LONG time.

BTW, I am pretty sick of hearing about Amare and Nash...I really hate how announcers pick a few players on each team and then jock the hell out of them...that is just really annoying no matter who's team it is, even when it's my favorite.

I happen to love Wade. Heck, he was my 2nd round draft pick (and quite a steal) in our fantasy basketball league. I'm pretty familiar with him, since he played at Mrquette and I love 30 minutes from there.

I think the over hyping of players is becoming a thing for all sports. They do it in football with Vick. They are great players, but I agree that the coverage of all sports is too centered on those 1 or 2 guys that everyone knows by name. It's like they are dumbing down the telecasts because not everyone knows who Hamilton or Eddie Jones is.

I even find it tiring during the football season watching every Packers game and having to constantly hear about how Favre carries the team...balh, blah, blah for the 1,000th time.

[Leebo33]

And the NBA foul plea bargaining is child's play compared to the Royal Shakespeare Company theatrics of most footie players.

LOL. I think the foul theatrics apply to most stages of basketball. I can still picture the pain on the faces of Carl Krauser and Chris Taft after almost every foul called in Pitt games. Hell, I know players in pickup games that have never ever committed a foul and if you call a foul on them they act like you called their mom a nasty name.

I too think Wade is the real deal and have thought that since he dominated Pitt a few years ago in the sweet sixteen.

[jLp vAkEr0]

WTF is the Bulls front office thinking?

Why not extend Skiles contract?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2078791

[matthewk]

You seem to find a reason to get worked up about everything which I never understand especially when a post doesn't address you by name. I basically made a half-joking comment. The half joking bit was that I don't like casual NBA fans. The non-joking part was that casual fans tend to only like high scoring offense.

Then you make a post basically attacking the NBA with 4 or 5 negative comments in a row without anything positive in the mix. Since this is a basketball thread I would expect maybe a postitive comment or two or some speculation on the finals but I suppose that is beyond the pale. You are free of course to b*tch and complain about everything. I just don't choose to take that approach myself but maybe I should. The next baseball topic I read, I think I'll enter and post that baseball in general is pretty lame for various reasons. (too few homeruns now the roids are gone, etc, etc). I think I'll do that mentioning that I'm only a casual baseball fan that watches about a game a season and then expect people to think that is cool and my views on the subject are valid.

[Brando70]

WTF is the Bulls front office thinking?

Why not extend Skiles contract?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2078791

I just threw up in my mouth.

[dbdynsty25]

84-69...yawn. I watched about 8 min...then I woke up when the game ended. Geeze...there isn't a damn player on the court with a lick of personality...forget the fact that they are boring to watch.

[wco81]

I can see this being a back and forth series. The score was not indicative of how close it was. Duncan can't jump with either of the Wallaces. Rasheed was covering him one on one most of the first half.

Parker and Ginobli aren't going to slice into the lane as easily as they did in previous series. Ginobli got it going somewhat but there's a lot of long arms he has to contend with and he worked a lot harder to get his shots than before.

Detroit lost a lot of depth from last year with Okur, Williamson and Mike James leaving.

The shooting percentages were UGLY for both teams. But when you have a 1-0 or 2-1 baseball game, the batting, slugging and on base percentages are going to be ugly too. But the game as a whole is something to marvel at, as the pitching staffs and fielders would have had to execute well to keep the scoring down so low. Well there was defense being played tonight.

[10spro]

Will Ginobili be the MVP after the series is over?

[ubrakto]

He's clearly a great player, but this was my first real taste of the green NyQuil that is watching Ginobili dismantle your team. I figured people were exaggerating, but it's true. The guy flops more than the pancakes at Bob Evanson on a Sunday morning. And just how in the hell does he get away with lowering his shoulder and driving it right into Ben Wallace's chest without getting an offensive foul not once, but twice in the span of a minute? No, it's not why Detroit lost. The Spurs owned them in the third and fourth quarters and deserved the win, but I can see already that the guy is going to make me crazy before this is over.
---Todd

[reeche]

He's clearly a great player, but this was my first real taste of the green NyQuil that is watching Ginobili dismantle your team. I figured people were exaggerating, but it's true. The guy flops more than the pancakes at Bob Evanson on a Sunday morning. And just how in the hell does he get away with lowering his shoulder and driving it right into Ben Wallace's chest without getting an offensive foul not once, but twice in the span of a minute? No, it's not why Detroit lost. The Spurs owned them in the third and fourth quarters and deserved the win, but I can see already that the guy is going to make me crazy before this is over.
---Todd

I'm not sure how Ginobili is any different from any slasher who attacks the rim but that is just my perspective as a neutral observer. Since George Karl whined about it after getting beat, this has kind of become the trendy observation about him, but I don't see him flopping or faking any more than Iverson, Bryant, or really just about any other driver/slasher. They all create contact. Jordan was the guy I really remember first initiating contact and drawing calls (whether they were deserved or not at times) so I don't think this is some new trend. Imo the guy simply beats guys off the dribble and then crams it down your throat. I have a feeling if most teams had a player like this, they would love him.

[dbdynsty25]

Since George Karl whined about it after getting beat, this has kind of become the trendy observation about him, but I don't see him flopping or faking any more than Iverson, Bryant, or really just about any other driver/slasher.

Guess you haven't watched any of the Spurs games this year or during the playoffs. The dude is the typical Euro Soccer player. Flailing and flopping with the smallest amount of contact. It's irritating to say the least. I don't care if he's on my team, the other team, whatever. In fact, I'm not even sure I disagree with him getting the contact, it's what he does AFTER he gets hit that is just plain stupid. When he went down like he got shot when Amare just nudged him...I about fell out of my chair laughing it was so ridiculous.

[reeche]

Since George Karl whined about it after getting beat, this has kind of become the trendy observation about him, but I don't see him flopping or faking any more than Iverson, Bryant, or really just about any other driver/slasher.

Guess you haven't watched any of the Spurs games this year or during the playoffs. The dude is the typical Euro Soccer player. Flailing and flopping with the smallest amount of contact. It's irritating to say the least. I don't care if he's on my team, the other team, whatever. In fact, I'm not even sure I disagree with him getting the contact, it's what he does AFTER he gets hit that is just plain stupid. When he went down like he got shot when Amare just nudged him...I about fell out of my chair laughing it was so ridiculous.

No I've seen him play quite a bit this year. In fact until this season, I pretty much thought he was over-rated. Imo he has elevated his game quite a bit so now the talk on him is actually in proportion to what he does on the court. I find him a fun, exciting player to watch who is capable of taking pretty much any defender off the drible but everybody is entitled to their own take.